Guys... hope you don't mind. Slight debate with my wife on where my priorities / money should be spent on this home. Long story short, I just moved to San Antonio, and I'm renovating the house I bought. I got a great house in a very nice neighborhood... but it was a home that had been vacant for 2 years. I've been renovating it while living in it, and I want to maximize my profit. I'm only going to be living here for 3-4 years, so it's definitely an investment property. I want to make sure that the money I spend, I get proper ROI on it versus the time / effort. In this case, I'm working on the upstairs guest bathroom. The bathroom was kind of nasty before. Carpet, popcorn, eggshell, etc.
I've maybe spent a total of $500 on this bathroom so far. To this point I've done: - Scraped popcorn from ceiling, sanded ceiling, painted ceiling. - New GFI outlets, switches, timer for the heater, rebuilt heater / fan combo, and new 3" LED can in front of the built-ins. - Removed wall-paper, re-mudded the walls, sprayed knock-down, and painted. - New solid-core louvered door to the shower/toilet area to replace the existing door that was there. - New toilet, toilet flange (had to cut it out), etc. - Installed tile in both the shower room and vanity area. - Installed waynescotting along the walls, baseboard. - New thresholds, trim, hardware, and oil-rubbed bronze fixtures.
Now, while I do plan to keep the cabinets (and just replace the handles). I was thinking about replacing the countertops with some engineered quartz, as well as new faucets, and probably replacing the medicine cabinets. I'll also probably frame-out the mirror. The shower-surround tile in the bathroom, and the tub, are still original. All I did was clean it up, replace the hardware and drain in the tub area.
So my question is... would you be offended by this bathroom? Do you think it's worth it to me to spend another $2,000 on this bathroom to replace the sinks / countertops. My "guess" is that I'll probably get dollar for dollar in equity, but since I'm doing the work myself, I have to question if it would bring increased buying potential. Pretend for a moment that you liked "Hill Country Modern" styling (which this is), if you liked that... would you be offended by this bathroom, or would you insist on new countertops and sinks to match everything else?
Tub, tile, countertops and sinks look fine, I find the dark hardware and cabinets off-putting, especially the faucets? If you're flipping the house you'll want to pick something more neutral.
It's only an investment if it increases the value of the house by more than you spend, or maintains the present value (where a dated bathroom would detract from the value, since a potential buyer would need to spend money to repair and renovate, and try to get all or part of that cost subtracted from the home's asking price).
$2k would be better spent on a tankless water heater, or upgraded appliances in the kitchen. Elongated bowl toilet would be a nice modern upgrade, too.
Tub, tile, countertops and sinks look fine, I find the dark hardware and cabinets off-putting, especially the faucets? If you're flipping the house you'll want to pick something more neutral.
It's only an investment if it increases the value of the house by more than you spend, or maintains the present value (where a dated bathroom would detract from the value, since a potential buyer would need to spend money to repair and renovate, and try to get all or part of that cost subtracted from the home's asking price).
$2k would be better spent on a tankless water heater, or upgraded appliances in the kitchen. Elongated bowl toilet would be a nice modern upgrade, too.
The cabinets in the bathroom are something I'm definitely NOT going to change, unfortunately. It's a custom-made 96" vanity that was built by a local cabinet maker when they built all these homes. It's made from solid oak.
Kitchen is completely remodeled, I have top of the line appliances, Jenn Air, and Samsung. All new shaker cabinets, and rococo countertops.
The thing that I'd want people (outside of Texas) to look at... is "where" this house is. Here in Hill Country... IE: most of Central and South Texas... the oil rubbed bronze door knobs and fixtures are very much in style, and sought after. It's what all the newer homes get, so that's what I put in as well. If I was in Miami, for example... I'd build to a different style, which is ultra-modern, and a lot of chrome and stainless steel. But that doesn't sell too well here in San Antonio. The toilet in the picture is an elongated one too, so it's not a small one... though when I look at the picture above, it definitely looks like it... but it's just the angle I took the picture.
How badly do you hate the cabinets? Only thing I may do is swap out the doors... but the countertops are that old "mold-injected" countertops. Getting new cabinets though (of the same quality) would be suuuuuper expensive.
[This message has been edited by 82-T/A [At Work] (edited 09-07-2017).]
The door patterns scream 80's (not in the GOOD way), and the hardware dates it even further. Maybe if they were sanded and re-stained to a color that complimented the tile better, and the hardware was simpler in shape? The long handles overpower the scale of the cabinets, smaller knobs would make the space look and feel bigger.
It is really hard for me to give an estimate of value without location, comps, what you already have into it, etc. Not being mean, just honest. If this is truly just a short term thing, then always be cost thoughtful. Always.
If the bathroom is clean, everything is in good shape and its not hideous, often its better to leave it vs trying to go for more luxurious materials. If your doing it because you want it while you're living there, go for it, like you said, it will probably pay for itself in equity. If you have to borrow money, don't.
[This message has been edited by jmbishop (edited 09-07-2017).]
A few ideas one I would paint the cabinets a medium gray to compliment the shower tile. I would also replace the faucets to match the rubbed bronze that you have in the rest of the bathroom. If you were in a subdivision I would recommend going on real estate agents websites to see what other houses have done with the same bathroom.
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: The thing that I'd want people (outside of Texas) to look at... is "where" this house is. The Texas Hill Country.
Believe me, you are not in the Texas Hill Country.
The door patterns scream 80's (not in the GOOD way), and the hardware dates it even further. Maybe if they were sanded and re-stained to a color that complimented the tile better, and the hardware was simpler in shape? The long handles overpower the scale of the cabinets, smaller knobs would make the space look and feel bigger.
If the countertops were formica, I'd say yeah, rip them out, but they look fine in the pictures?
On the tub and sink faucets, the plastic "crystal" handles is what makes me physically ill. Maybe something like this to match the other burnt bronze?
Yeah, the cabinet doors are hideous, those are the same cabinets we had in the kitchen, it's the slope at the top. If it was just squared, it wouldn't be so horrible. We ended up doing cabinet re-facing and got all shaker for the kitchen, but just not sure I want to spend THAT kind of money. Cabinet doors are super expensive.
I had already planned on swapping out the faucets and the hardware (door pulls)... thanks for looking that stuff up, I do appreciate the time you spent on that.
The countertops are not formica, but that resin stuff... not sure what you call it... it's not plastic, and it's not stone. You had kind of picked up on what bugged me too with the cabinets.
So, if I DON'T want to replace the cabinets, then just faucets and hardware, and I should be "good"... at least with respect to ROI?
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Originally posted by Hank is Here:
A few ideas one I would paint the cabinets a medium gray to compliment the shower tile. I would also replace the faucets to match the rubbed bronze that you have in the rest of the bathroom. If you were in a subdivision I would recommend going on real estate agents websites to see what other houses have done with the same bathroom.
Yeah, definitely going to do that (replace the faucets). Not sure I want to paint the cabinets... they're stained and textured, so I'd have to sand them down like mad first.
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Originally posted by Tony Kania:
My professional opinion...
Update the faucets to match the bath.
Finish the grout under the kick plate.
It is really hard for me to give an estimate of value without location, comps, what you already have into it, etc. Not being mean, just honest. If this is truly just a short term thing, then always be cost thoughtful. Always.
You mean grout under the baseboards? Or are you talking about under the cabinets? I did grout under the cabinets already (finished that up today).
I've got about 35k I've put into the house so far, not including the money I actually spent on the house. But I bought the house for about 80k under the going value of the other homes. It sat vacant for about 2 years. In this particular room though, I've only got ~$500-700 into it, new toilet, new door, paint, trim, fixtures, and tile.
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Thanks guys...
Another thought... I've got this same cabinetry in the master bathroom, as well as the other guest bathroom. The other guest bathroom is easy... I can swap it out with a white shaker vanity for $250 with countertop and sink. But the master vanity is just as big as this one. It's a large walk-in shower, but the tile is the same too (tile in the shower room... ) so I think I'm going to end up just having to gut that entire bathroom (the master I mean). No way I can get away with leaving it as a simple refresh like this one.
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Originally posted by cliffw:
Believe me, you are not in the Texas Hill Country.
It seems to be South-Central Texas... and San Antonio is more or less on the south-eastern side of that. Where I live... (North Eastern side of San Antonio) everything says Hill Country all over the place.
[This message has been edited by 82-T/A [At Work] (edited 09-07-2017).]
I wonder if... in addition to faucets and door pulls, if I just replaced the medicine cabinets, it would emphasize less, the non-desireable design of the cabinet doors...
Unless... anyone knows where I can get cabinet doors for under $40 a door?
Oh dude... I know, it was disgusting. It was this thick brown carpet. It was throughout the entire vanity area. In the bathroom / shower area, there was lenolium (sp?) flooring.
Same thing in the master bathroom... there is carpeting down in there. In the toilet room (separate) there is tile, but the big shower room steps out directly onto carpet... ?
The dinning room, and the "great room" for lack of a better word, is all carpeting. I've since torn it all out, and really the only thing left for me in this house is flooring on the bottom floor (going to go with hardwood throughout the first floor, with tile in the kitchen and utility room, pantry room, and laundry room.
It is just difficult giving an estimate over the internet.
It sounds like you have a lot of wiggle room on the costs of remodeling. Stay under your budget and you can never go wrong. It is when you over extend that it becomes a burden.
If you really are that much ahead, new doors for the cabinets might be in order.
Yes, dump the medicine cabinet and get a nice mirrored one. That is what is selling. Just my thoughts...
Dark colored hardware in a bathroom seems odd. Generally, you'd want a "bright and clean" look in a bathroom. And that usually calls for metallic looking hardware (silver, nickel, gold, etc). Brushed nickel is a good choice, if you don't want it to look too "blingy".
As for the cabinetry, here are my thoughts: Replace the medicine cabinets with mirrored ones, as mentioned above. Then paint all the cabinetry below the countertop level white, to match the trim and the door. The white color will also downplay the dated cabinet door design.
Oh, and the sink faucets definitely need to match the rest of the hardware. If they don't, they'll stick out like sore thumbs.
[This message has been edited by Blacktree (edited 09-09-2017).]
Here is the problem, what is in today can be dated just as fast so, put in what you want.. YUPPIES are the ones that walk into a house and find a clean good kitchen or bath needing a total gut job, because it is "dated" (read: not their taste) . it is a thing based on opinion.. contractors love it as they take a completely functioning kit/bath and remodel it.. I've seen people take out 25k cabinets and stone counters to replace it with chic white "modern" looking one. same in a bath.. sure some older homes with a blue or avocado tolet and tub might need work, but most it's just a taste thing.. Some it needs a gut from eck, carpet in a bathroom.. Case in pont wife wanted to gut the bath, as she didn't like the oversized (read huge) claw foot tub.. That is until she was wathing those diy tv shos and saw what people pay to get and install a much smaller one.. Then it was we need to keep that.. I will say the marble pink (yes pink) tiles on the wall need to go.. but that is basic.. Same with the kitchen, she wanted the built on site cabinets gone, until on those shows it showed how much they cost and how much better built they are, lol.. So what is in is a fad and it can be dated asap and what you removed can be in just as fast.. From watching those house shows all I've learned is many are might opinionated on the look of a bathroom, and must take mighty long dumps that it's style is THAT big of a deal.. Like I told the wife you **** and shower in it then ,not in it all day.. it does not need a 1200 vanity , and 1000 sink top.. etc..
Quick update... I donated a bunch of stuff at Habitat for Humanity. I've never been to their home stores before... but apparently this is where the Home Depot contractors go to dump all their left over cabinet doors after doing a refacing or remodel. I found a ton of shaker cabinet doors. They don't match, but I may strip the paint / sand them down and stain them to match the cabinets.
Here is the problem, what is in today can be dated just as fast so, put in what you want.. YUPPIES are the ones that walk into a house and find a clean good kitchen or bath needing a total gut job, because it is "dated" (read: not their taste) . it is a thing based on opinion.. contractors love it as they take a completely functioning kit/bath and remodel it.. I've seen people take out 25k cabinets and stone counters to replace it with chic white "modern" looking one. same in a bath.. sure some older homes with a blue or avocado tolet and tub might need work, but most it's just a taste thing.. Some it needs a gut from eck, carpet in a bathroom.. Case in pont wife wanted to gut the bath, as she didn't like the oversized (read huge) claw foot tub.. That is until she was wathing those diy tv shos and saw what people pay to get and install a much smaller one.. Then it was we need to keep that.. I will say the marble pink (yes pink) tiles on the wall need to go.. but that is basic.. Same with the kitchen, she wanted the built on site cabinets gone, until on those shows it showed how much they cost and how much better built they are, lol.. So what is in is a fad and it can be dated asap and what you removed can be in just as fast.. From watching those house shows all I've learned is many are might opinionated on the look of a bathroom, and must take mighty long dumps that it's style is THAT big of a deal.. Like I told the wife you **** and shower in it then ,not in it all day.. it does not need a 1200 vanity , and 1000 sink top.. etc..
Yeah... that's the thing for me... it's the time and money... because I do almost everything myself, I just want to weight ROI... and investment being both time / sanity / money.
Here's the kitchen, almost done... just need a few more things and need to put in a floor. I've since jack-hammered up the floor and now it's bare concrete... wife is pissed, so I've got to get some tile down quickly.
This style probably doesn't appeal to too many people here, nor would the fixtures... but this is ALL THE RAGE here in San Antonio for the fancy people in Stone Oak and Encino Park. Everything is shaker and oil rubbed bronze.
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And this is what it originally looked like. I pulled out the desk, moved the fridge to where the oven box was. I widened the oven box to 30"s from 24", moved the water (there's a bathroom on the other side), and replaced most of the electrical. I mean... I'm sure this looked nice back in the day... but it's soooo dark. Anyway, I installed recessed LED's everywhere. Still haven't hooked up the hood vent, but the stove is also downdraft too... so it'll have both. Everything is Jenn Air and Samsung.
[This message has been edited by 82-T/A [At Work] (edited 09-09-2017).]
[B]Originally posted ... wife is pissed, so I've got to get some tile down quickly.
This style probably doesn't appeal to too many people here, nor would the fixtures... but this is ALL THE RAGE here in San Antonio for the fancy people in Stone Oak and Encino Park.
Too funny !
The wife is pissed. Here you are, busting you azz, moving to parts unknown to you, trying to take care of your family, please your wife, and she is pissed.
Stone Oak, Encino Park, I know it well. No, not the Hill Country. I wish my life was not so hectic right now. I would kidnap you and show you some Hill Country.
Todd, I admire your work. Well done. However, ROI, I bought our home in 2004. We just sold at almost twice the buying price. I did't do zhit to it. As far as remodeling.
This is frustrating. My desktop is ... being moved, disconnected. Responding on a smart phone sucks. Give me a call. 210 471 1192.
The wife is pissed. Hilarious. My wife, a lovely beautiful soul, is always pissed, mostly. Especially when I laugh at her for being pissed.
Todd: I don't really think this is the thread I had in mind... Thought you had one referring to older homes with good bones but I can't find it now.
Jane and I just came back from 5 days wandering around farther West and this is one of the houses we looked at, tho it is in town (San Saba) and no acreage at all. Still tho, a beautiful house. Like the old broken down ranch house I posted about recently, it was built in 1904. (they are both in the same county about 20 miles apart)
Already has a wheelchair ramp, which I will probably need sooner rather than later. If this one had a few acres with it, I would jump on it tho it is really more home than I need at my age. We need to downsize significantly, but not this much. My primary concerns would be piping and the fact it hasn't been upgraded to central air and heat, which would probably be a minimum of $10k more to do.
We have just about decided it would be more cost effective, to buy a small parcel of raw land and have a new home built. There are lots of 20ac parcels for sale out in that area, but they are big ranches that are being split up/subdivided and often come with ''reasonable restrictions to protect property values".
[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 02-09-2021).]
Todd, I admire your work. Well done. However, ROI, I bought our home in 2004. We just sold at almost twice the buying price. I did't do zhit to it. As far as remodeling.
In the end, the money spent on the house made it more livable, gave me something to do, improved my skills across the board, and it worked like a savings account. What I spent, I will get back, along with the equity the home has earned over the past 4 years (I'm moving in 3 months). On top of that, I still have all my fingers.
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Originally posted by maryjane:
Todd: I don't really think this is the thread I had in mind... Thought you had one referring to older homes with good bones but I can't find it now.
Jane and I just came back from 5 days wandering around farther West and this is one of the houses we looked at, tho it is in town (San Saba) and no acreage at all. Still tho, a beautiful house. Like the old broken down ranch house I posted about recently, it was built in 1904. (they are both in the same county about 20 miles apart)
Already has a wheelchair ramp, which I will probably need sooner rather than later. If this one had a few acres with it, I would jump on it tho it is really more home than I need at my age. We need to downsize significantly, but not this much. My primary concerns would be piping and the fact it hasn't been upgraded to central air and heat, which would probably be a minimum of $10k more to do.
We have just about decided it would be more cost effective, to buy a small parcel of raw land and have a new home built. There are lots of 20ac parcels for sale out in that area, but they are big ranches that are being split up/subdivided and often come with ''reasonable restrictions to protect property values".
Let me ask you... what is it you're looking to gain by purchasing a large property lot. Not trying to pry, but you're saying you're going to need a wheelchair soon, so I wonder if you do really need 20 acres, or if you might be more happy with something smaller? I don't know what your budget is... but there's a lot of nice homes that are in subdivisions... not necessarily cookie-cutter homes, but something where you can get a nice lot, a nice home, and be closer to people (if that's something that interests you), still have a little bit of land, and have it be cheap.
The above home is really nice... I like the whole front porch. Something I've always wanted.
I had made a post in the past about that... but I can't find it now either. My problem is that the old historic homes are not in areas with good school districts. I'm in no rush for my daughter to grow up, but in 6 years, I won't have to worry about school districts.
All the shows I watch, other than This Old House, etc... are shows that involve restoring old mansions (Bargain Mansions, Rehab Addict, etc.)
If this is going to be your last home, go not just for what you think you want, but also what you think will help you in the long run.
I don't know that I will need a wheelchair ramp but better to have one and not need it than need it and have to suddenly have one built. More property allows for an ag exemption on property taxes. Homestead exemption does allow for some, but I would like enough property to be able to raise "something". A beef steer for my own consumption, and 2-5 to sell and maybe some grapes.
I thought, the place I'm living in now would be my last home, and I really really don't want to move. But, outside forces are present. Humidity here is very hard on Jane, causes her respiratory infections several times/year and 3 different Drs have recommended we relocate to a drier climate. We are always just one hurricane away from flood disaster and wife is just tired of the mud and trees, cloudy skies, inbred E. Tx population, the 42" of annual rain and Houston Metroplex is quickly moving out into this county. But yes, where ever we endup will be my last home and I expect Jane's as well. (she's 15 years younger than I am)
It will be extremely difficult to leave here for me. I have almost 60 years of involvement on this property (since 1964) and a huge physical and emotional investment. None of my spawn are interested in this property (3 live out of state) my brother is gone, and both my other siblings are older than I am. The market is good right now so I suppose it's time to let it go. I had a vision for it when I started working on it in earnest in 2006 and didn't quite reach it, but did turn it from raw forest into a true working farm. The appraised value on this 41.4 acres in 2006 was $48K. Nearly 10X that now. I'll want to roll the proceeds from this place over to another primary resident for tax purposes and need to do so before the Dem controlled congress screws CG taxes up worse than they already are. I'll be 71 in a few months so 'the long run' isn't going to be what it once was.
[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 02-09-2021).]
