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There's something to be said for quality materials... by 82-T/A [At Work]
Started on: 08-20-2017 01:09 PM
Replies: 16 (281 views)
Last post by: E.Furgal on 08-21-2017 01:47 PM
82-T/A [At Work]
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Report this Post08-20-2017 01:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 82-T/A [At Work]Send a Private Message to 82-T/A [At Work]Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Having just laid some tile, and reflecting on E-Frugal's response about the wood doors... it's kind of disappointing that they don't make homes today like they used to. I'll caveat that we have many, MANY new improved codes that older homes didn't have. Aside from things like knob and tube, aluminum wiring, or cast iron piping... homes today have better structural supports (bigger framing, etc).

But the quality of the materials is often lacking. I realize it's more expensive to produce higher quality, and it's cheaper to produce lower quality... but there's just something to be said for materials that are well made.
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olejoedad
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Report this Post08-20-2017 01:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I owned a 2 story home built in 1917, when I remodeled the bathroom, the one original stud weighed as much as six of the new studs. Couldn't put a nail in one without drilling a hole, drywall screws snapped off.
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Report this Post08-20-2017 03:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for blackramsSend a Private Message to blackramsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:

homes today have better structural supports (bigger framing, etc).



There is a distinct possibility I'm on a different sheet of music than you but, my experience is significantly different in modern housing.

Joe called it correctly.
------------------
Ron

Isn't it strange that after a bombing, everyone blames the bomber, his upbringing, his environment, his culture, his mental state but …
after a shooting, the problem is the gun....
Open your frigg'n minds, think about all the other tools that can be made into WMDs.

I sincerely hope that life is never discovered on another planet because, sure as hell Progressives and Socialists will want to send them money.

[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 08-20-2017).]

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Tony Kania
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Report this Post08-20-2017 03:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Tony KaniaSend a Private Message to Tony KaniaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
On phone...

"Old growth" wood is better than nearly ALL lumber of today. 300 year old trees are different than 30 to 60 year old farmed trees.

I call hand laid nails "old man nails". I love working on finds that have been untouched. A lot of my thought when renovating a customer home consists on recovery. The homes built from the early 80's on are often garbage. It really is apples and oranges when it comes to the quality of a build pre 1980.

[This message has been edited by Tony Kania (edited 08-20-2017).]

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olejoedad
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Report this Post08-20-2017 04:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
My house was framed in red oak, and sided with yellow pine.
A far cry from the kiln dried hemlock of today.....
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82-T/A [At Work]
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Report this Post08-20-2017 08:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 82-T/A [At Work]Send a Private Message to 82-T/A [At Work]Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by blackrams:

There is a distinct possibility I'm on a different sheet of music than you but, my experience is significantly different in modern housing.

Joe called it correctly.



Let me re-phrase that. The code now requires a second and subsequent floors to usually have studs that are 12" to 16" apart depending on stud types. The older homes... like in the 50s, 60s, 70s... they typically didn't have that and can't support the weight. I don't have any experience with homes older than that, but yeah... what everyone said about hard-woods. I meant the "standards" for construction (code requirements) are better. But my emphasis in posting was to say that older homes were just built better, higher quality.


 
quote
Originally posted by Tony Kania:

On phone...

"Old growth" wood is better than nearly ALL lumber of today. 300 year old trees are different than 30 to 60 year old farmed trees.

I call hand laid nails "old man nails". I love working on finds that have been untouched. A lot of my thought when renovating a customer home consists on recovery. The homes built from the early 80's on are often garbage. It really is apples and oranges when it comes to the quality of a build pre 1980.




In South Florida... the newer the home, the better. It used to be that homes with a 2nd floor used to have concrete on the bottom, and wood on the second floor. Now, the homes are 100% concrete both first and second floor (including floors and walls). But, aside from that... here in Texas, the newer homes are total "crap" compared to the older homes. My home (built in 1983) was built on solid bedrock. But the newer homes, they pour a concrete slab, and within a week they've got the walls up. Homes that have been around for only a couple of years, already have huge cracks in the foundation slab. The newer homes are also all built like perfect squares. I bought in an older quality neighborhood, and the homes are so much nicer. But the newer neighborhoods, they build UP rather than wide, and the newer homes... even if they're nice looking, are built so badly.


 
quote
Originally posted by olejoedad:

My house was framed in red oak, and sided with yellow pine.
A far cry from the kiln dried hemlock of today.....



My house in Florida, the roof trusses were built using Slash Pine, also known as Dade Pine. It's impervious to termites... or I guess I should say... they aren't attracted to it. Newer homes use poplar and other regular 2x4s to build the trusses.

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Report this Post08-20-2017 08:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for blackramsSend a Private Message to blackramsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:
Let me re-phrase that. The code now requires a second and subsequent floors to usually have studs that are 12" to 16" apart depending on stud types. The older homes... like in the 50s, 60s, 70s... they typically didn't have that and can't support the weight.



Hmmm, well I've worked in/on quite a few older homes in my 60 + years, never seen one with less than 16" on center studs. Dad was a carpenter most of his life, we put up quite a few homes and remodeled many older homes. But then, I haven't worked on all of them.

Edited: I take that back, I have worked on some very old homes where the studs were inconsistently placed but, I doubt they were built to any code.

One of the reasons for more stringent codes is the shrinking size and quality of lumber. Back in the day, a 2X4 was actually 2" X 4". That is no longer true.


------------------
Ron

Isn't it strange that after a bombing, everyone blames the bomber, his upbringing, his environment, his culture, his mental state but …
after a shooting, the problem is the gun....
Open your frigg'n minds, think about all the other tools that can be made into WMDs.

I sincerely hope that life is never discovered on another planet because, sure as hell Progressives and Socialists will want to send them money.

[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 08-20-2017).]

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E.Furgal
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Report this Post08-20-2017 09:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for E.FurgalSend a Private Message to E.FurgalEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:

Having just laid some tile, and reflecting on E-Frugal's response about the wood doors... it's kind of disappointing that they don't make homes today like they used to. I'll caveat that we have many, MANY new improved codes that older homes didn't have. Aside from things like knob and tube, aluminum wiring, or cast iron piping... homes today have better structural supports (bigger framing, etc).

But the quality of the materials is often lacking. I realize it's more expensive to produce higher quality, and it's cheaper to produce lower quality... but there's just something to be said for materials that are well made.


Todays and even much of what was built from the 80's till today are crap..
The alum wiring that was mostly an 80's thing when copper prices were very high..
Other than a historic home/building, and even then you are not getting insurance if you still have knob and tube wiring..
Newer homes have a better open floor plan and insulated better that is all they have going for them..
My home is a cape, built in 1934 the 2x4 are 2x4 not like todays 2x4 that are 1.5x3.5" . you can whack the 2x4 in my home and not leave a mark from the hammer, do that with newer builds and you'll leave a nice impression of the hammers head 1/4 deep..
Have you seen what they use for rafters in floors and roof. engineered beams (glued together chip board with a 2x1spuce at the top and bottom) for the floors and just chip board for rafters.. I'll take a solid 2x10/12 first thanks..
I'm also not a fan of plastic water lines..That they use today.. Thanks but I'll sweat a joint,
Today you can still fill your new home with quality materials in the build and the trim but it will cost you.. heck they use partical board or foam trim for crown moldings and such now.. junk..
You can still get solid interior doors only they are now marketed as high end and the prices are nuts.. same with real wood moldings, price out kitchen cabenits the standard pressed board stuff and then ones with all 3 sides of the "box" plywood and real wood face..
The ones that the box is made of partical board other than the face is cheaper but I would not expect it to last more than 10 years..
I looked at a ton of homes and many had new fresh kit and bath, so beautiful but wouldn't last. As they cheaped out on the materials because they knew they were moving..
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Report this Post08-20-2017 09:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Tony KaniaSend a Private Message to Tony KaniaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Building codes are there because of idiots. I for one am quite happy to comply. Others within my community feel that the codes are an obstruction.

I have been doing this for nearly 25 years of my life. Some homes were just built with care. Some were built by idiots.
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E.Furgal
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Report this Post08-20-2017 10:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for E.FurgalSend a Private Message to E.FurgalEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Tony Kania:

Building codes are there because of idiots. I for one am quite happy to comply. Others within my community feel that the codes are an obstruction.

I have been doing this for nearly 25 years of my life. Some homes were just built with care. Some were built by idiots.


The house my dad bought in '95 was the running joke of the "house that jack built" from all the changes, but it was still better than the framed in a day junk they call new construction today
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82-T/A [At Work]
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Report this Post08-21-2017 12:04 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 82-T/A [At Work]Send a Private Message to 82-T/A [At Work]Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by E.Furgal:


Todays and even much of what was built from the 80's till today are crap..
The alum wiring that was mostly an 80's thing when copper prices were very high..
Other than a historic home/building, and even then you are not getting insurance if you still have knob and tube wiring..
Newer homes have a better open floor plan and insulated better that is all they have going for them..
My home is a cape, built in 1934 the 2x4 are 2x4 not like todays 2x4 that are 1.5x3.5" . you can whack the 2x4 in my home and not leave a mark from the hammer, do that with newer builds and you'll leave a nice impression of the hammers head 1/4 deep..
Have you seen what they use for rafters in floors and roof. engineered beams (glued together chip board with a 2x1spuce at the top and bottom) for the floors and just chip board for rafters.. I'll take a solid 2x10/12 first thanks..
I'm also not a fan of plastic water lines..That they use today.. Thanks but I'll sweat a joint,
Today you can still fill your new home with quality materials in the build and the trim but it will cost you.. heck they use partical board or foam trim for crown moldings and such now.. junk..
You can still get solid interior doors only they are now marketed as high end and the prices are nuts.. same with real wood moldings, price out kitchen cabenits the standard pressed board stuff and then ones with all 3 sides of the "box" plywood and real wood face..
The ones that the box is made of partical board other than the face is cheaper but I would not expect it to last more than 10 years..
I looked at a ton of homes and many had new fresh kit and bath, so beautiful but wouldn't last. As they cheaped out on the materials because they knew they were moving..



Yeah, all the new homes have PVC. I guess I can't really say that it's a bad thing, I mean... it's not going to rust. It will PROBABLY last longer than the copper tubing, but I just don't know what the sheer strength is and whether or not it is more durable than the copper tubing. Both houses I have, have the thick-walled copper tubing. A lot of the stuff in THIS house though, has compression fittings. Not sure how I feel about that... but I've replaced all of my shut-off valves and used compression fittings, and it seems to not leak / be fine. My parents house has all PVC. Just seems weird, particularly when it's coming out of the wall with the shutoff valve. I worry about it being too week. I mean, you could literally drop something back there and break the pipe off the wall and then you'd have water gushing at 70+ psi all over the place.

Yeah, agree on the cabinets too. The house I bought here in Texas had all solid oak cabinetry. I took some of it down since it obstructed views, and I had to move some of it around (moved the wall-mounted oven to the other side and moved the fridge to the other side), and when I removed them, they all had hard paper sheets taped to the side which had the specs for the cabinets. Apparently, they were all made by a local cabinet maker, labelled for the home, and then installed. They were also stained on-site. The cabinet maker (now out of business) made all the cabinets here for this entire neighborhood loop of ~40 homes. All the homes have fancy built-ins, and other stuff. Really cool. Anyway, I kept the cabinets, but had them refaced. They replaced all the doors with tongue and groove cabinet doors in the shaker style.
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Tony Kania
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Report this Post08-21-2017 12:24 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Tony KaniaSend a Private Message to Tony KaniaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
PVC and plastic piping is great if used properly. Again, not a material issue, but builder/construction problem when problems arise.

If your water is flowing @ 70psi... 32psi is usually on the high side of public water flow. Things would leak at twice the normal pressure.

Edit: Shooting for useful, but coming across as an azz. Sorry.

[This message has been edited by Tony Kania (edited 08-21-2017).]

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Report this Post08-21-2017 06:02 AM Click Here to See the Profile for E.FurgalSend a Private Message to E.FurgalEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Tony Kania:

PVC and plastic piping is great if used properly. Again, not a material issue, but builder/construction problem when problems arise.

If your water is flowing @ 70psi... 32psi is usually on the high side of public water flow. Things would leak at twice the normal pressure.

Edit: Shooting for useful, but coming across as an azz. Sorry.



I see these pex pipe the same way as the crap they used in the motorhome rv world that they banned 20 years ago because it can cause cancer.. now it is in your home.. Sure it is not the Exact same type plastic.. But um, no I'll pass..
Only reason it is used is it is faster to install, nothing more. as it is snap together and any moron can do it.. So the contractor doesn't need 2-3 plumers he only needs one to check over the day laborers work. mice tend to not eat copper but they do eat plastic.. tasty
The + of pex, meth heads won't cut it all out to sell to a scraper..

[This message has been edited by E.Furgal (edited 08-21-2017).]

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82-T/A [At Work]
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Report this Post08-21-2017 10:39 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 82-T/A [At Work]Send a Private Message to 82-T/A [At Work]Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Tony Kania:

PVC and plastic piping is great if used properly. Again, not a material issue, but builder/construction problem when problems arise.

If your water is flowing @ 70psi... 32psi is usually on the high side of public water flow. Things would leak at twice the normal pressure.

Edit: Shooting for useful, but coming across as an azz. Sorry.




Here in San Antonio, or I guess Texas in general, the state recommended water pressure is 40-80 PSI.

The water pressure (last measured) was 88psi coming into my house, and they recommended I get an expansion tank on my water heater (which it does not currently have).


I have no clue what the water pressure is in my home in South Florida. But it is definitely high here...
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Tony Kania
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Report this Post08-21-2017 11:11 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Tony KaniaSend a Private Message to Tony KaniaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
@82/TA... You are correct. I am not sure why I was thinking this? I passed misinformation. Sorry ya'll.
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Report this Post08-21-2017 12:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 82-T/A [At Work]Send a Private Message to 82-T/A [At Work]Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Tony Kania:

@82/TA... You are correct. I am not sure why I was thinking this? I passed misinformation. Sorry ya'll.



FUEL PRESSURE! haha... I think 32 is the normal PSI for your run of the mill fuel injected car. Although many of them want ~42 psi.


Still, 80 PSI seems crazy! When I go on vacation, I constantly think about all those compression fittings failing and leaking all over the house while I'm 1,000 miles away...
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Report this Post08-21-2017 01:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for E.FurgalSend a Private Message to E.FurgalEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:
FUEL PRESSURE! haha... I think 32 is the normal PSI for your run of the mill fuel injected car. Although many of them want ~42 psi.


Still, 80 PSI seems crazy! When I go on vacation, I constantly think about all those compression fittings failing and leaking all over the house while I'm 1,000 miles away...


EFI is 60psi or so today,, direct injection is much higher than that..

as for water psi 80 seems high.. but I've never honestly measured mine..
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