Originally posted by randye: Secession of the states was not ruled illegal until after the war. The United States Supreme Court, in Texas v. White, 74 U.S. 700 (1868), determined that secession was unconstitutional. Chief Justice Salmon Chase wrote in his majority opinion that, "The ordinance of secession...and all the acts of legislature intended to give effect to that ordinance, were absolutely null. They were utterly without operation in law."
Note the date of the court's decision, 1868.
Fully 3 years after the end of the civil war.
You sir are incorrect.
Texas vs White was a debt argument. True, SCOTUS did opine that Texas had no right to secede, but that was not argued before the court.
We all know what happened when the King of England thought the colonies had no right to self determine their own destination.
You mentioned that SCOTUS determined secession as unconstitutional. True. It is not spelled out in the Constitution. Neither is abortion.
The 1869 SCOTUS was just as politically charged as any.
Tony, I responded to you on the other thread and you replied with a poop emoji. If you are going to act like a child, you are going to be ignored like one.
Yet 3dog You do not address any of the counter facts posted in this thread about the subject from ANY of the poster.. Telling, indeed. Sorry, but feelings are not facts.. you might want to study up on American history before you enter the classroom this year..
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[This message has been edited by Keel (edited 08-18-2017).]
Tony, I responded to you on the other thread and you replied with a 💩. If you are going to act like a child, you are going to be ignored like one. Click to show
Whether or not the issue of Secession was an OA before the court, or even briefed, is immaterial. The point is that the constitutionality of the act was decided by that case and well after the conclusion of the war. At the time the southern states seceded it was not treasonous or illegal.
Forest fortuna imperator.
[This message has been edited by randye (edited 08-18-2017).]
Whether or not the issue of Secession was an OA before the court, or even briefed, is immaterial. The point is that the constitutionality of the act was decided by that case and well after the conclusion of the war. At the time the southern states seceded it was not treasonous or illegal.
Forest fortuna imperator.
Unfortunately randye, I have only 28 days to vacate my home (we sold). I do not have the time to digest the text. I wish I did.
Heh, the "Constitutionality" of the act. Decided after the war. Does the term "Carpetbagger" ring a bell ? I wish I had more time to devote to this topic.
Heh ... imagine this/that :
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Originally posted by Threedog: The other is a general of a war where half the country tried to secede so that they could still own those very same people.
Maybe we shouldn't celebrate those who killed others over the right to own other human beings?
Yet the Federal government thinks it owns the States, .
I ask you again Threedog. What are you going to blame the next civil war on ?
Anyone who has read the writings of Robert E. Lee would know that the MSNBC news hack has cherry picked information to prepare his presentation.
Read about the work the General Lee did during the Reconstruction period to reunify the nation.
As soft living modern Americans, we have no clue as to the perspective of those men who struggled emotionally and physically to find their paths through the turmoil of their times.
Anyone who has read the writings of Robert E. Lee would know that the MSNBC news hack has cherry picked information to prepare his presentation.
Read about the work the General Lee did during the Reconstruction period to reunify the nation.
As soft living modern Americans, we have no clue as to the perspective of those men who struggled emotionally and physically to find their paths through the turmoil of their times.
Read it while you can before they remove, edit, burn any trace of it..
Anyone who has read the writings of Robert E. Lee would know that the MSNBC news hack has cherry picked information to prepare his presentation.
Read about the work the General Lee did during the Reconstruction period to reunify the nation.
As soft living modern Americans, we have no clue as to the perspective of those men who struggled emotionally and physically to find their paths through the turmoil of their times.
Lee might have objected to a statue of him being raised too:
Lexington, VA., August 5, 1869.
Dear Sir--Absence from Lexington has prevented my receiving until to-day your letter of the 26th ult., inclosing an invitation from the Gettysburg Battle-field Memorial Association, to attend a meeting of the officers engaged in that battle at Gettysburg, for the purpose of marking upon the ground by enduring memorials of granite the positions and movements of the armies on the field. My engagements will not permit me to be present. I believe if there, I could not add anything material to the information existing on the subject. I think it wiser, moreover, not to keep open the sores of war but to follow the examples of those nations who endeavored to obliterate the marks of civil strife, to commit to oblivion the feelings engendered. Very respectfully, Your obedient servant, R. E. Lee.
That letter shows the true character of the man. He was a humble servant of his country before the war, his state when the war broke out, and his country again when hostilities ended. He did not advocate for the move to secession, but when it happened, he followed his duty to his state. After the war, he worked mightily to heal the wounds to the war had done to the fabric of America. Early in our history, the peoples first allegiance was to their State. We were only two generations on from the Founding of our country, an agreement between the States to form a Federal government that was held in secondary importance to the power of the State. The words in the Constitution declared that all powers not specifically granted to the Federal government by the Constitution are reserved to the States and the People had not yet been overwhelmed by an over reaching Federal government.
[This message has been edited by olejoedad (edited 08-19-2017).]
Tony, I responded to you on the other thread and you replied with a poop emoji. If you are going to act like a child, you are going to be ignored like one.
Spare us the fake enlightened high road. You're probably the least mature person on this forum.
Destroy no statues. If they're offensive, relocate them. I've learned more about General Lee because of these incidents. I really didn't have an opinion before but now I've been exposed to his good works and character. Thank you.
Destroy no statues. If they're offensive, relocate them. I've learned more about General Lee because of these incidents. I really didn't have an opinion before but now I've been exposed to his good works and character. Thank you.
I agree, destroy no statues. But i don't think they should be relocated either. This isn't about people being offended, this is about mobs being manipulated by others. Tail wagging the dog, as it were. The monuments were emplaced generations ago to remind those that came after (duh, us!) of the events (including those that were reprehensible to later generations) of the past. If one is offended by a statue, perhaps one should learn to deal with their maturity issues.
Should we also destroy the NAZI extermination camps? Or keep them as a reminder of the terrible side of this animal we call HUMAN?
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: Spare us the fake enlightened high road. You're probably the least mature person on this forum.
Well said! unfortunately this statement applies to the majority of you. Pretty disgusting the way you all talk to each other. Kinda difficult to take anything ANY of you say seriously when its done in the tone of 10 year old's on a playground..
Enlightened indeed!
[This message has been edited by Jonesy (edited 08-19-2017).]
Well said! unfortunately this statement applies to the majority of you. Pretty disgusting the way you all talk to each other. Kinda difficult to take anything ANY of you say seriously when its done in the tone of 10 year old's on a playground..
Enlightened indeed!
And yet here you are? If my words ever bother you, just know at the very end of this sentence is a safe space.
Well said! unfortunately this statement applies to the majority of you. Pretty disgusting the way you all talk to each other. Kinda difficult to take anything ANY of you say seriously when its done in the tone of 10 year old's on a playground..
Enlightened indeed!
Agreed. No one is ever dissuaded from their viewpoints by name calling.
Well said! unfortunately this statement applies to the majority of you. Pretty disgusting the way you all talk to each other. Kinda difficult to take anything ANY of you say seriously when its done in the tone of 10 year old's on a playground..
Enlightened indeed!
I haven't called anyone any names so how about answering my question.
Why is this an issue now but not in 2008 when the party of the left was in total control of the federal government?
Well said! unfortunately this statement applies to the majority of you. Pretty disgusting the way you all talk to each other. Kinda difficult to take anything ANY of you say seriously when its done in the tone of 10 year old's on a playground..
Enlightened indeed!
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Originally posted by dratts:
Agreed. No one is ever dissuaded from their viewpoints by name calling.
I think the answer to that question would be different for each individual you asked. Personal life experiences and situations and all that.
That is precisely why we have a written Constitution, so that the basic principles of what this country stands for are NOT up to individual interpretation....."and all that'.
[This message has been edited by randye (edited 08-19-2017).]
Well said! unfortunately this statement applies to the majority of you. Pretty disgusting the way you all talk to each other. Kinda difficult to take anything ANY of you say seriously when its done in the tone of 10 year old's on a playground..
Enlightened indeed!
Equally difficult to take someone like you seriously when you openly belittle and insult another person on this forum for his religious beliefs and *then* you try to take the moral or ethical high ground.
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Originally posted by Jonesy:
No you haven't you saw a medical mystery (which isn't the first) had zero explanation, so chalked it up to Gods doing. You didn't "see" or "witness" god do anything. You witnessed something you didn't have an explanation to or understand, and gave god credit.. Like people have been doing for thousands of years when they don't understand how or why something happened.
But hey man, if believing something like that gives you comfort, or just helps you deal with things in life that you cannot explain, then all the power to ya..
Well said! unfortunately this statement applies to the majority of you. Pretty disgusting the way you all talk to each other. Kinda difficult to take anything ANY of you say seriously when its done in the tone of 10 year old's on a playground..
Enlightened indeed!
After saying that and your ratings are still even steven, there is no justification when people say that folks gang up and run people off this forum for disagreeing with them.
Rewriting history to fit the current political current is George Orwell's 1984 thesis. BTW my great grandfather was a union soldier from Pa. Destroying confederate monuments accomplishes nothing except that the left wing activists get a warm fuzzy feeling.
Because a mentally disturbed and hate-filled young man named Dylan Roof had not yet murdered innocent people in cold blood.
(Disclaimer: I am not left leaning.)
YOU DO KNOW THAT THE REBEL FLAG WAS PHOTOSHOPPED into that photo the "news" plastered all over.. So are you saying that fake news is the reason and cause..
....and the Marxists and Bolsheviks torn down every statue and image of the Tsars
....and Chairman Mao's communist Red Guards torn down countless statues, temples and images.
....and Pol Pot's communist regime Khmer Rouge almost succeeded in erasing entire cities, (along with the people)
....and on and on.....
I think I see a pattern here.
You just wait, now that these liberal snowflakes see that no one is going to stop them, the gays will say well churches offend me, and the whole liberal terrorist will Start with statues and churches , You mark my words.. That is the end game.. They just needed to test the waters first to see if anyone would stop them..
YOU DO KNOW THAT THE REBEL FLAG WAS PHOTOSHOPPED into that photo the "news" plastered all over.. So are you saying that fake news is the reason and cause..
I had not heard of the photoshopped flag. Have you evidence of that?
And yes, the news media is complicit with most of the problems we are having with race relations in this nation.
Because a mentally disturbed and hate-filled young man named Dylan Roof had not yet murdered innocent people in cold blood.
(Disclaimer: I am not left leaning.)
It shouldn't matter if that flag was tattooed on the his face. We shouldn't let what a few mentally disturbed people do cause us to over react. (Or let people use it as an excuse to remove freedoms or the weapons to secure freedom.)
It shouldn't matter if that flag was tattooed on the his face. We shouldn't let what a few mentally disturbed people do cause us to over react. (Or let people use it as an excuse to remove freedoms or the weapons to secure freedom.)
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