I think he was honest. I don't think he would reply he was unaware, as a lie. I think Threedog is sincere in what he says, in general.
I am unaware of a blm rally or riot that did not have hate speach and or violence associated with it or espoused within it. And that is no lie.
I also find it haRd to believe that Threedog has not seen a single thread here on PFF that exposed violence within blm with news articles and or video. I am thinking that Threedog may have even posted in such threads.
[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 08-23-2017).]
And sitting back and allowing this crap to happen is no better.. Clearly those in power in many places don't care.. if the rebel anything brings back to much memories of hate and racism so does MLK and parks, and many others.. their whole theme is b/s.
Actually, like muslims, apparently the only way to get them to understand anything is to do the same thing to them. They dont follow any laws. Some are just so stupid thats the only way to get their attention. It worked to bomb Germany and Japan into oblivion in WWII. They are just to ignorant to stop until they know your going to eradicate them.
How exactly would you get groups like BLM to stop their nonsense ? Do like Obuma and Hillary said and treat them kindly with lots of love ? Hows that ever worked out for anyone ever in the past ? Lets just tell them we love them all and give them all new Cadillacs.
I wouldn't approach the nutjobs that riot on the street at all, that's for sure.
[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 08-24-2017).]
.. or the news outlets you have such high esteem for are exactly what Trump and others have been saying. They are bias and pushing an agenda, they purposely fail to report truth and purposely report false "news". They treat their followers like mushrooms.
I'm just saying its probably more this, many years of this. Combined with brainwashing in schools, handout practices by the gov, etc.
I don't understand why so many here refuse to just admit they were Republicans, who voted for Trump, who are also Neo Nazis?
That doesn't make you a Neo Nazi.
Not all Republicans are Neo Nazis.
It's okay for the idiot, racist protestors to be Republicans. That doesn't mean you are an idiot or a racist. You don't have to try and deflect and claim they're Democrats, or try and make justifications for them. They are very fringe people that don't need your justifications.
In the same vein, Antifa does not represent all of the Left. Democrats try and pretend that they're just "Anti-fascist" and say if you are against fascism you should support them. No. Antifa has been shown to be a violent group with no respect for the rights of others.
Again, it's horrendous that a bunch of White, Republican, racist Neo Nazis were able to gather at that large of a number to protest taking down the statue of a man that literally fought to keep slavery alive. It's okay to say that as a White person and as a Republican. That doesn't make you a racist or Nazi by association. It's okay to say that it's stupid that we still have glorifying statues of people that opposing ideals. That doesn't automatically make you a Democrat.
I don't know why so many here seem offended that anyone would dare claim some Neo Nazis were part of the alt-right.
I don't understand why so many here refuse to just admit they were Republicans, who voted for Trump, who are also Neo Nazis?
That doesn't make you a Neo Nazi.
Not all Republicans are Neo Nazis.
Its odd how you have applied such a simplistic "binary" view to your thinking on this.
Has it even occurred to you that those "neo-nazis" that you claim are Republicans might be *Independent* voters?
Has it even occurred to you that those "neo-nazis" maybe didn't even vote for Trump at all? I've read a good bit and seen videos lately of them complaining bitterly that "He let his daughter marry a Jew". That hardly sounds like a ringing endorsement to me.
Are you somehow abused of the mistaken idea that all conservatives are white Republicans?
Please tell me how ANYONE here could know for a fact WHO those people voted for or WHAT their political party affiliation is?
Why are you attempting to goad people here into "admitting" ANYTHING that they couldn't possibly know on a factual basis?
Your entire premise is ridiculous.
[This message has been edited by randye (edited 08-24-2017).]
Its odd how you have applied a simplistic "binary" view to your thinking on this.
Has it even occurred to you that those "neo-nazis" that you claim are Republicans might be *Independent* voters?
Has it even occurred to you that those "neo-nazis" maybe didn't even vote for Trump at all? I've read a good bit and seen videos lately of them complaining bitterly that "He let his daughter marry a Jew". Hardly sounds like a ringing endorsement to me.
Is this "admission" that you're seeking from others for confirmation of your theory?
Are you somehow abused of the mistaken idea that all conservatives are white Republicans?
Did it occur to me? Yes. But, the video I saw where they say they don't like how Trump let his daughter marry a Jew, was the same video that had the same people say that they supported Trump because he was a move in the right direction. So this isn't coming out of thin air.
I'm a Libertarian. I hardly think in binary. That is literally exactly why I said it's okay to say these people are what they claim they are--that doesn't mean other people on that end feel the same way. Politics is a spectrum. It ain't even a straight line. It's all over the place.
As far as conservatives... I didn't mention conservatives in my post. Do you think all conservatives are Republicans?
Yeah, and like I responded... I didn't even mention conservatives. So no, I don't think I'm under any kind of illusion that all conservatives are White Republicans. Hell, I consider myself a conservative, as I'm all about freedom and our constitution, and I'm not a Republican. I'm also a liberal in some respects, so I might not count. But I know plenty of non-White conservatives who are and aren't Republicans. I don't know where you got that idea from considering, like I said, I never mentioned conservatives in this post.
I'm a Libertarian. I hardly think in binary. That is literally exactly why I said it's okay to say these people are what they claim they are--that doesn't mean other people on that end feel the same way. Politics is a spectrum. It ain't even a straight line. It's all over the place.
So in this line of reasoning, do you call the terrorists muslum because they say they are?
This is what I'm saying. The evidence is there. If they showed you their votes before placing them in the ballot you'd still probably deny it. And why?
No, they weren't all Neo Nazis. Many were. No, they didn't all vote for Trump. Some probably didn't vote at all. But if you want to split those hairs and say that means they weren't, in general, Neo Nazi, White, Trump voters, you're just making excuses. I don't get it. There is no benefit to you.
If a bunch of Antifa folks said "Hey, we voted for Hillary!" would you timmediately think "Well shoot, I wonder who they voted for?"
You know what the "Hiel Trump" is ???....and I've done it myself to some lefties...
Its like saying "**** you" on steroids (and has a similar effect). Its a slap in the face, its a dismissal, its a fart in the nose AND an atomic wedgie all rolled into one...
Its telling the bleeding heart globalists **** YOU, you will no longer steal MY money, property and assets to give to somebody else in another country. I WILL DEFEND WHATS MINE.
Its telling the entitled "**** YOU", I DO NOT owe you one damn thing for your accident of birth, or something that happened 150+ ears before I was born. Ask nicely and you might be surprised at the help I'll give. Try and demand or force and there is a reason I wear point-toed boots. They go up your anal exit with less resistance for the field-goal punt.
Its telling the feminists "**** YOU", you think being born with mammary glands makes you in charge and entitled to take whatever you want. You are not needed or wanted. There are PLENTY of good women who are NOT feminazis so piss right the **** off and go away....or be removed.
Its about telling the life-long welfare cases and baby factories "**** YOU", I am not working at 3am to finance YOUR next sexual and reproductive exploit, if you cant keep your legs shut or go on the pill, then get fixed. Popping out puppies is not a career choice and not my financial problem, its yours.
Its telling the arrogant immigrant bastards who think they can come HERE and force ME to learn their language "**** YOU", you chose to move here, you can learn mine. If you think I am learning yours you can get the hell back where you came from.
Its about telling The MuzzTM "**** YOU", shove your Sharia up your **** -pipe. This is North America, not the Middle East and if you think you are going to invade here the same way you did Europe, you need to see the above comment about what pointy-toe-boots are for.
Its about a lot of things, and about telling a LOT of different groups and people to GO **** YOURSELF.
So, yea...HIEL TRUMP....(oh, and BTW...)
You can have the one I wear just as soon as you hack my dead, Canadian, right arm off...and once more the sentiment is "**** YOU"
Most of all, a "Hiel Trump" is about freedom from the leftist, globalist, communist, feminist, and every-other-ist we have been living under for the past 70 years. Its about saying "no:" to minority rights, "no" to special interests, and "no..no..no and **** NO"
[This message has been edited by MidEngineManiac (edited 08-25-2017).]
So in this line of reasoning, do you call the terrorists muslum because they say they are?
Yeah, there are a **** ton of Muslim extremists who want to be terrorists, and a few of those that end up accomplishing that goal.
Some of the leaders probably don't actually believe in it and just use it as a way to control others. I don't find that any better. I don't even know if I would say belief in it is required to be considered it. Most Catholics I know don't seem to actually believe in it but still say they're Catholic.
One of the hallmarks of conservatism is not making decisions or acting on emotions or assumptions. Verifiable, objective facts are the basis of sound logic and decision making.
quote
Originally posted by theBDub:
No, they weren't all Neo Nazis. Many were. No, they didn't all vote for Trump. Some probably didn't vote at all. But if you want to split those hairs and say that means they weren't, in general, Neo Nazi, White, Trump voters, you're just making excuses.
WOW This a joke isn't it? It has to be or else you really do have some serious rational thinking issues. After THAT admission from you, and you are still expecting people here to "admit" THIS drivel:
quote
Originally posted by theBDub:
I don't understand why so many here refuse to just admit they were Republicans, who voted for Trump, who are also Neo Nazis?
Like I said, your premise is totally ridiculous.
[This message has been edited by randye (edited 08-25-2017).]
Yeah, there are a **** ton of Muslim extremists who want to be terrorists, and a few of those that end up accomplishing that goal.
Some of the leaders probably don't actually believe in it and just use it as a way to control others. I don't find that any better. I don't even know if I would say belief in it is required to be considered it. Most Catholics I know don't seem to actually believe in it but still say they're Catholic.
Thank you for answering, I don't disagree with this answer much. Like the "useful idiots" of communist Russia, hate and revenge in the hands of useful idiots manipulated by madmen....bad things happen.
You're so worked up over this, but you're really missing the big picture here. They were chanting heil Trump, carrying Nazi flags, at a self-proclaimed White Nationalist event. I say not all voted for Trump because many people say they voted but didn't. This is seen every election. I say they weren't all Nazis because some were there who weren't really fully vested. That's just gonna happen with large numbers. Will you admit most were white, racist, Neo Nazi Trump supporters?
Another question. Let's say Elton John holds a concert. I write a comment calling the concert attendees Elton John fans. Would you split hairs this much, or not? Really think about it. Because to me, you seem to be chock full of this emotion you aren't affected by.
[This message has been edited by theBDub (edited 08-25-2017).]
Thank you for answering, I don't disagree with this answer much. Like the "useful idiots" of communist Russia, hate and revenge in the hands of useful idiots manipulated by madmen....bad things happen.
Because to me, you seem to be chock full of this emotion you aren't affected by.
You can save your argumentum ad hominem nonsense.
I'm most certainly not "missing any big picture" as you claim now, and any *emotions* involved here are wholly yours alone.
I'll repeat myself again for you: One of the hallmarks of conservatism is not making decisions or acting on emotions or assumptions.
Verifiable, objective facts are the basis of sound logic and decision making.
The same holds true for all of my commentary on this forum. I deal in verifiable, objective, facts and you STILL haven't offered ONE to support your ridiculous premise.
[This message has been edited by randye (edited 08-25-2017).]
I'm most certainly not "missing any big picture" as you claim now, and any *emotions* involved here are wholly yours alone.
I'll repeat myself again for you: One of the hallmarks of conservatism is not making decisions or acting on emotions or assumptions.
Verifiable, objective facts are the basis of sound logic facts, and decision making.
The same holds true for all of my commentary on this forum. I deal in verifiable, objective, facts and you STILL haven't offered ONE to support your ridiculous premise.
Can you explain what the burden of proof is for you to say something is factual?
Will you answer my question regarding the Elton John concert?
I don't understand why so many here refuse to just admit they were Republicans, who voted for Trump, who are also Neo Nazis?
That doesn't make you a Neo Nazi.
Not all Republicans are Neo Nazis.
It's okay for the idiot, racist protestors to be Republicans. That doesn't mean you are an idiot or a racist. You don't have to try and deflect and claim they're Democrats, or try and make justifications for them. They are very fringe people that don't need your justifications.
In the same vein, Antifa does not represent all of the Left. Democrats try and pretend that they're just "Anti-fascist" and say if you are against fascism you should support them. No. Antifa has been shown to be a violent group with no respect for the rights of others.
Again, it's horrendous that a bunch of White, Republican, racist Neo Nazis were able to gather at that large of a number to protest taking down the statue of a man that literally fought to keep slavery alive. It's okay to say that as a White person and as a Republican. That doesn't make you a racist or Nazi by association. It's okay to say that it's stupid that we still have glorifying statues of people that opposing ideals. That doesn't automatically make you a Democrat.
I don't know why so many here seem offended that anyone would dare claim some Neo Nazis were part of the alt-right.
The German Nazi party was a left wing party as defined by big government and lots and lots of welfare programs. There are only small differences between the Nazis and the Communists. Please do a little reading, don't take my word. It's all public knowledge.
And do not forget who the White Supremacists were from history. White Southern DEMOCRATS. All the states that seceded during the Civil War were led by Democratic legislatures and Governors. And all the Jim Crow laws in the years after were passed and signed by Democrat led states. Remember George Wallace of Alabama? Democrat. Many of those blue collar rednecks shouting racist slogans are dyed in the wool Democrats. Please stop assuming and check your facts.
Will you answer my question regarding the Elton John concert?
People going to a concert know exactly who and what they will see there. They go because they are fans. They are of like mind in gathering. This legal protest was held because the removal of statues. Some came to express hate, some came to cause trouble, they were not all of like mind.
In the same vein, Antifa does not represent all of the Left. Democrats try and pretend that they're just "Anti-fascist" and say if you are against fascism you should support them. No. Antifa has been shown to be a violent group with no respect for the rights of others.
Antifa does represent and believe in the ideals of the left though, they are just acting on it in a physical, unlawful way.
The German Nazi party was a left wing party as defined by big government and lots and lots of welfare programs. There are only small differences between the Nazis and the Communists. Please do a little reading, don't take my word. It's all public knowledge.
And do not forget who the White Supremacists were from history. White Southern DEMOCRATS. All the states that seceded during the Civil War were led by Democratic legislatures and Governors. And all the Jim Crow laws in the years after were passed and signed by Democrat led states. Remember George Wallace of Alabama? Democrat. Many of those blue collar rednecks shouting racist slogans are dyed in the wool Democrats. Please stop assuming and check your facts.
Of course I know this. That doesn't change the alignment of the current Neo-Nazis on the fringe right. It's essentially the horseshoe theory, here.
And yes, Democrats and Republicans have changed a lot over the decades and millennia. That has nothing to do with today. I am also not trying to paint Republicans in a bad light regarding these protests. The only thing that paints them in a bad light, is Republicans deflecting and denying the evidence for what happened in Charlottesville... which is just the weirdest thing to me. The excuses show the maturity level here.
quote
Originally posted by Rickady88GT:
People going to a concert know exactly who and what they will see there. They go because they are fans. They are of like mind in gathering. This legal protest was held because the removal of statues. Some came to express hate, some came to cause trouble, they were not all of like mind.
To take Randye's line of reasoning, you should consider that security are there, spouses who might not really appreciate the music, dates that didn't even know where they were going, people who just like concerts, people who wanted to go with their friends but don't know Elton John's music, etc. My point is it's dumb to split these hairs. There are videos of a large number of them saying "Heil Trump." Interviews where people say they voted for Trump. There were many, many Nazi flags being flown (with evidence). Interviews have them expressing their disdain for the left and for people of color. But when I say, they were Neo Nazis, considering themselves Republicans, who voted for Trump, I'm making wild accusations with no proof?
That's my point. Randye is off the wall here. We have the evidence of what happened through video. The excuses and deflections do not reflect well on those in this thread that are making them.
quote
Originally posted by cliffw:
How do you know if I voted or did not ?
Cliff, I didn't make any accusation towards you at all. Randye said I have no proof they voted for Trump. I say the video interviews of them saying they voted for Trump, combined with chants of "Heil Trump," lead me to believe they voted for Trump, but sure, some probably didn't vote at all. Nothing about you. Nothing about Trump supporters in general (seriously, read my posts, people, this is not a rally against Trump). This is simply acknowledging that 100% of the people in Charlottesville in the original protest did not vote for Trump. Randye thinks that breaks down my entire post. It doesn't.
quote
Originally posted by 2.5:
Antifa does represent and believe in the ideals of the left though, they are just acting on it in a physical, unlawful way.
I disagree. I don't believe the left, on average, wants the violence associated with Antifa. Many do, but I don't think most do. So that alone, to me, means they don't represent those ideals.
quote
Originally posted by 2.5:
What difference does it make who the "neo Nazis" voted for?
It doesn't. But we can assume, based on their comments and video evidence, that they voted for Trump. So making up these weird conspiracies and claiming that it's completely unknown who they voted for just reflects poorly. My comment is geared less at the people there in Charlottesville, and more at the people on this forum that, IMO, reacted poorly to this incident.
Originally posted by theBDub: My comment is geared less at the people there in Charlottesville, and more at the people on this forum that, IMO, reacted poorly to this incident.
It just seems to me that EVERYBODY acted poorly in Charlottesville, MOSTLY the media. This event is CLEARLY being molded to fit agendas. And for the most part, the same can be said for just about any major event in America now days. But both sides of this story are TOTALLY wrong and out of bounds as Trump has said. But Trump is somehow demonized for not being harder on the white racists, but practically nothing said about the injustices of antifa? TOTALLY irresponsible of the media to be so one sided. Hypocritical and criminal to say the least. Violence, hate and racism is inexcusable EVEN if it is your side that is doing it.
Oh for God's Sake! This is way beyond ridiculous now.
Simply put, NO, I am not going to go down the silly rabbit hole of your ELTON JOHN CONCERT diversion.
Your Antifa / Hillary and Elton John concert analogies are just as specious as your wild theory regarding people at Charlottesville.
Do you really expect any rational thinking adult here to agree with the nonsense you keep proposing here?
You won't answer because you know you made a ridiculous argument. I draw analogies so you can more clearly understand your biases and respond to them.
I said this:
"I don't understand why so many here refuse to just admit they were Republicans, who voted for Trump, who are also Neo Nazis? "
You respond that my view is very simplistic and binary. Granted, I don't make it clear that out of all those people I think 100% of them fit that entire description. When you have a large number of people, you'll find it difficult to find any description that matches 100% of them, besides "human." So no, I didn't think it necessary because that's basic ****ing common sense.
You bring up independent voters, and claim we can't know who they vote for, and it's unlikely they voted for Trump. However, I responded that there are videos that show they support Trump. The same video that you quoted even mentions this! So I know you've seen it.
You bring up conservatives in an assertion of my beliefs on conservatives. I didn't. So when I said I never brought it up and asked you your opinion on it, you got defensive and said you asked it first. You edited your post to add that you weren't "aware that it was somehow mandatory for it to be contained in your post to make it a valid question." Well, your question was "Are you somehow abused of the mistaken idea that all conservatives are white Republicans?" Considering I never brought up conservatives, I think it's a pretty safe assumption that I don't hold an idea that all conservatives are white Republicans. That idea came out of thin air from you. It's like if I just asked you, in this same tone "Do you really believe that all liberals are Black people?" It's a ridiculous question to ask someone when they didn't make that assertion in the first place. You're trying to make me feel like my ideas are wrong, and I am being attacked. This would make me get defensive and emotional. It didn't work.
Then we go back to the real argument. Your problem with my assertion that they're "Republicans, who voted for Trump, who are also Neo Nazis?" I give you a video showing them chanting Heil Trump. The Leader of the Neo Nazis said he voted for Trump. Another person at the "Unite the Right" rally, the former KKK leader David Duke, said “This represents a turning point for the people of this country. We are determined to take our country back, we’re going to fulfill the promises of Donald Trump, and that’s what we believed in, that’s why we voted for Donald Trump, because he said he’s going to take our country back and that’s what we gotta do.” I can grab more quotes if you'd like. This can be found by you, though.
Then you just go back to saying I'm just making assumptions. Come on. You're being willfully ignorant, here. None of this is Trump's fault. This doesn't mean anything to the broader definition of a Republican.
You know how when a Muslim extremist commits a terrorist act, and many here, many on this same thread, have said "Why don't the Muslims speak out against them?" Well, I guess I just expected those same people to speak out against the White Nationalists instead of trying to make claims that they were largely Democrats, paid by Soros as some kind of tactic to ruin the reputation of Republicans.
Cliff, I appreciate you asking, really. You have asked a few times over the years and I appreciate it. But she's been in the same state for years now. There is no further risk of harm. She's paralyzed, always will be, and is now just my dear mom who happens to be paralyzed. She's doing well, just like as well as anyone else, full leg movements or not. Thank you for asking.
It just seems to me that EVERYBODY acted poorly in Charlottesville, MOSTLY the media. This event is CLEARLY being molded to fit agendas. And for the most part, the same can be said for just about any major event in America now days. But both sides of this story are TOTALLY wrong and out of bounds as Trump has said. But Trump is somehow demonized for not being harder on the white racists, but practically nothing said about the injustices of antifa? TOTALLY irresponsible of the media to be so one sided. Hypocritical and criminal to say the least. Violence, hate and racism is inexcusable EVEN if it is your side that is doing it.
I don't really have an opinion on Trump's remarks on it. He could have been more direct, but I do believe Antifa should be condemned. If he had expanded on it, they'd just complain he condemned Antifa in the same breath.
I don't like President Trump but I think the drama over this, in respect to him and his statements, is overblown.