The day that muslims began the systematic removal of Armenian families from their homes in 1915. Nearly 1.5 million people were killed. Millions more took a trek that led them to the deserts of Syria.
This may not mean much to anyone here, but this is how part of my name was brought to the United States. Through forced removal by muslims.
Armenia has not always been such a stronghold of muslim influence.
What was behind the ethnic cleansing of Armenians? April 9, 2015; in Al- Monitor.
Mustafa Akyol is a columnist for Al-Monitor's Turkey Pulse, a columnist for the Turkish Hurriyet Daily News, and a monthly contributing opinion writer for The International New York Times.
A brief, Op-Ed style column, followed by a string of impassioned readers' comments from a variety of perspectives.
What was behind the ethnic cleansing of Armenians? April 9, 2015; in Al- Monitor.
Mustafa Akyol is a columnist for Al-Monitor's Turkey Pulse, a columnist for the Turkish Hurriyet Daily News, and a monthly contributing opinion writer for The International New York Times.
A brief, Op-Ed style column, followed by a string of impassioned readers' comments from a variety of perspectives.
[HIDE] Read more: ...
I read it in it's entirety. Written by a muslim, blaming others under his breath, while advocating reading of the koran, and lastly speaking of his "good old neighbors" to the reading world. What an absolute bunch of horse shat Rinselberg. I do wish that I could call upon my deceased Grandmother and have her tell her side of the "forced relocation". Perhaps amidst the rapings (sp) by muztards, she found peace with their religion?
On this day, I will not speak kindly of allah. You can, and I welcome your way of communication here. Even less abrasive than I. I enjoy that about you. But, **** allah. If that is ok with you today?
From the article Rinselberg posted: “We have seen in local newspapers agonizing news and vile reports about Muslims of some Anatolian provinces of the Ottoman Empire attacking Christians and killing them brutally. We could not believe these reports and hoped that they were false, because Islam forbids aggression, oppression, bloodshed and harming human beings — Muslims, Christians and Jews alike.”
I wonder if the perpetrators were brought to justice?
Please correct me if I am mistaken, but I think of the Armenians as a Christian presence with communities and churches that had lived within the Muslim-ruled Ottoman Empire (or the "Caliphate", as it had been known) for many centuries before the savagery that was unleashed upon them by the Ottoman Muslims during the years of World War One.
It has to be more than just "Islam" or "Allah", because if it were really as simple as that, the Armenians would have been expunged from the lands of the Ottoman Empire long before the events of World War One.
I think of it as "Islam" plus a lot of other stuff that was going on at that particular moment in history.
If I had access to a Time Machine, I would dial myself back to the very eve of World War One and I would tell the Muslims who were calling the shots for the Ottoman Empire that they were being played for fools by the Germans, and that they should not be doing what they were about to do, which was to get involved in World War One on the side of the Germans.
They called it a "jihad"--officially. A "jihad" that was declared by the guy who was at the very top of the Ottoman Empire's "org chart"--history's very last "caliph". A "jihad" against the enemies of Germany.
From that one decision came much evil, and we are still seeing the remnants of it (large and small) to this very day.
Have the best Armenian Remembrance Day that is possible, Mr. Kania.
[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 04-24-2017).]
Originally posted by williegoat: Rinselberg, you are always civil and well informed, but you sound an awful lot like a holocaust denier today.
I am trying to "parse that"... to understand the connection between that, and between what I posted myself.
I just said:
quote
I think of it (the cause, or the force behind that World War One era onslaught against the Armenians at the hands of the Ottoman Muslims) as "Islam" plus a lot of other stuff that was going on at that particular moment in history.
If anyone does not see truth in that sentence, then how does anyone explain the centuries that came before, when Armenians and other Christians and non-Muslims were part of the Ottoman Empire, and--even if their treatment by their Muslim rulers was not always "the best"--were still part of the Ottoman Empire on the eve of World War One? Is there any passage in the Qur'an (Koran) that could ever have been read by, or interpreted by Muslims, to mean this:
quote
As Muslims, you are the overlords of the OE O(ottoman Empire). It's OK to have some non-Muslim communities within the OE, and you should tolerate--even embrace at certain times--the existence of these non-Muslim communities within the OE. But at some future time--a few centuries ahead of where we are today--a jihad will be declared and you must then be sure to wipe out all of these non-Muslim parts of the OE, starting with the Armenians?
I'm not familiar with that particular Qu'ranic verse or passage. And although I'm hardly an expert, I have exerted myself to look into many of these kinds of discussions with all the resources and time that I have been able to marshal for this task.
When I read Tony Kania, especially within this "thread" as it was broken out (by him) today, it all seems to come down to just "islam"--or "Allah" (as Tony K is given to using, as a synonym, in his lexicon, for "Islam")--and nothing more.
I have a more nuanced feeling or temperament about history--and about theologies.
Here is a fairly brief (not "real" brief; just fairly brief) column from Jerusalem Online, which comes with the banner or title of "Ottoman Empire: A Safe Haven for Jewish Refugees."
quote
The Ottoman Empire was a safe haven for the Jewish people, who experienced a golden age there similar to the Golden Age of Spain. During this period of history, Turkish-Jewish relations were phenomenal. It was a time of peace, prosperity, and serenity for Ottoman Jews.
What was that? Was "Allah" just going through the motions (so to speak) for a few centuries, and not really "feeling it"..? Like a baseball player who "dogs" it on his way to first base after striking the ball, instead of running to first base at his full speed, to give his team the best chance of winning?
Is this Rachel Avraham, who authored this column, dated June 11, 2014, some kind of doofus?
Was it something in particular about the Armenians of the Ottoman Empire, that set them apart from the Jews and the other non-Muslims, in the eyes of their Muslim overlords, and so made the Armenians "number one" on the Muslims' "Kill List" on the eve of World War One? Were the Muslims just methodically working their way down their "Kill List" and it just so happened that the list had been alphabetized for convenience, and "Armenians" were at the top of the list?
There has to be more than a one-word explanation for all this.
[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 04-24-2017).]
Grandmother is/was Yugoslavian. Southern enough to have been affected. I am going to hold the stories she told more than a "hip muslim reporter". If that is OK with you Mr. Rinselberg.
Honestly, I stumbled upon this predawn. I found it interesting. What I found most interesting is the blame that muslim have always shifted through time. Sad really, but it is there, written, but hey look, Kim Kardasian.
What was behind the ethnic cleansing of Armenians? April 9, 2015; in Al- Monitor.
Mustafa Akyol is a columnist for Al-Monitor's Turkey Pulse, a columnist for the Turkish Hurriyet Daily News, and a monthly contributing opinion writer for The International New York Times.
A brief, Op-Ed style column, followed by a string of impassioned readers' comments from a variety of perspectives.
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: Let me guess... can this article be summed up as saying... "they deserved it?" Thanks... but no thanks. There's no excuse for killing a million and a half people, sorry.
No. Not if I am to sum it up.
Perhaps you would consider the idea of looking the article over, which is, I dunno, maybe the length of two (2) typically book-sized pages of text.
IF it be your purpose here to express such an opinion about it.
I won't say that I am in agreement with every point that the author--a Muslim of the modern day nation of Turkey--tried to make. Starting with the title of the article, itself. "Ethnic cleansing" doesn't quite "cut it". I am calling it the "Armenian holocaust".
I put the article (or the link to the article) forward, because I think it explains or supports what I already said here in my posts on this thread; this, most of all:
quote
I think of it (the cause, or the force behind that World War One era onslaught against the Armenians at the hands of the Ottoman Muslims) as "Islam" plus a lot of other stuff that was going on at that particular moment in history.
There were other nations and power-brokers from that era--World War One--that, looking back on it, I would say about them, "There's no excuse."
A lot of "stuff" went down in that era--the years before, during and after World War One--a lot of "stuff" went down, in many parts of Europe, including Russia, and across North Africa and the Middle East. A lot of bad "stuff". A few years ago, I encountered this era through the documentary lens of three hour-long television segments, all part of a complete volume, that were aired on the Aljazeera America cable TV channel.
How many Muslims took the side of France and Great Britain during that conflict? The side that was opposed to the Muslims of the Ottoman Empire who were responsible for the Armenian holocaust.
I see this thread, either by purpose or more by an unplanned evolution, as a "counter jihad" of an undisciplined temperament, with an agenda, or at least a side-effect, or more accurately an undertone, that is a slur against Muslims who weren't part of the Armenian holocaust and deserve not so much as a penny stock's worth of the collective blame for it.
That's what I see in the post that I respond to here... this post from "82-T/A".
[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 04-24-2017).]
I see this thread, either by purpose or more by an unplanned evolution, as a "counter jihad" of an undisciplined temperament, with an agenda, or at least a side-effect, or more accurately an undertone, that is a slur against Muslims who weren't part of the Armenian holocaust and deserve not so much as a penny stock's worth of the collective blame for it.
...
No, I blame allah. I found this and posted. You are unable to direct just what my thought process is. You can only assume. You are often incorrect about me.
Again, I like you. Not in a spooning or even slight touching kind of a way, but I like you.
Look at the bright side, because of it, you ended up in this country.. All you can do is pray for the souls that got killed, harmed ,etc .. It be nice if we learned from stuff like this.. but we don't history repeats itself..
Oh, totally looking at the bright side of being born here. My father was also. All of my Grandparents were born elsewhere.
Armenians and Yugoslavians are not exactly neighborly, but we have a common enemy. One that has a long history of genocide. Call it what ever liberal name you choose, but it is still a murderous cult. One that absolutely dwarfs any other murderous cult. Yet, here we are discussing history with a person that always seeks to defend this disease.
Again, not knocking Finselberg. Just working around my own desire to learn history before muslims and the left erase, tear down monuments, and rewrite the history that so many of our ancestors created. It feels good to tell stories. It can be hard to tell history.
One of the reasons I don't like the digital age.. books are not being saved, and the digital "copy" is to easy to change.. We need to save books, so the truth of history can't be edited to fit the flavor of the day mold.
One of the reasons I don't like the digital age.. books are not being saved, and the digital "copy" is to easy to change.. We need to save books, so the truth of history can't be edited to fit the flavor of the day mold.
Yep.
Another reason is relianace on it means we can turn off nearly all communication all at once.
[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 04-25-2017).]
Originally posted by Tony Kania: No, I blame allah. I found this and posted. You are unable to direct just what my thought process is. You can only assume. You are often incorrect about me.
Again, I like you. Not in a spooning or even slight touching kind of a way, but I like you.
Regardless of what name man gives him, do not blame God for how man has twisted his words or what man has done to his teachings. Blame man (men).
Thank you Tony Kania for bringing this up and thank you to everyone who acknowledged the atrocity as genocide. It may seem like a small detail but it does mean a lot to us when the descendants of the perpetrators continue to deny the occurrence of the event entirely or skew the numbers to a fraction and attribute deaths to "civil unrest" or to "heat exhaustion" during a march to "safety."
