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This is why i do not believe in unchecked capitalism. by dennis_6
Started on: 04-16-2017 11:02 AM
Replies: 62 (782 views)
Last post by: 82-T/A [At Work] on 04-24-2017 07:19 PM
dennis_6
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Report this Post04-16-2017 11:02 AM Click Here to See the Profile for dennis_6Send a Private Message to dennis_6Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Remember there is a driver shortage, so supply and demand is working as well as trickle down economics.
-----

Trucker pay has plummeted in the last 30 years, analyst says
PAYJames Jaillet |March 04, 2016
Share Tweet LinkedIn Email Pin It reddit this

Pay for truck operators has failed to keep up with inflation since 1980, effectively slashing truckers’ wages by nearly a third, according to analyst Gordon Klemp, president of the National Transportation Institute.

Klemp, who spoke Feb. 26 on a conference call with investors and reporters, said truckers wages averaged $38,618 annually in 1980. If adjusted to 2015 dollars, that would be over $111,000 a year, Klemp said.

http://www.overdriveonline....years-analyst-stays/

[This message has been edited by dennis_6 (edited 04-16-2017).]

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Report this Post04-16-2017 11:12 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WichitaSend a Private Message to WichitaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
So you don't like uncheck capitalism, because trucker wages have decreased relative to inflation? Join the club.

You mean you want to keep it artificially high? So that consumers will pay more?

Maybe the reason is the supply of truckers are not scarce. Quite easy to get training and job as a trucker.

It will all go away eventually with robot self-driving trucks in the near future. They are already out there anyways.

What I would do, if you are low-skilled labor, is start demanding a universal income.

[This message has been edited by Wichita (edited 04-16-2017).]

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Report this Post04-16-2017 11:18 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MidEngineManiacSend a Private Message to MidEngineManiacEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Techs pay is the same.

If I went back to the food industry fixing those machines, I would be making exactly the same as I did in 2006. I scan the job ads as part of hunting contract work, and it seems to be across the board. Temps in the auto sector used to get $15/hr prior to the crash and thats whats being advertised now.

And they wonder why the economy is stagnant. Rich CEOs dont move the economy and create growth, there just isnt enough of them to spend that much. What moves the economy is the regular working guy with disposable income in his pockets due to sheer volume. Its not that hard to figure out.

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Report this Post04-16-2017 11:22 AM Click Here to See the Profile for dennis_6Send a Private Message to dennis_6Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Wichita:

So you don't like uncheck capitalism, because trucker wages have decreased relative to inflation? Join the club.

You mean you want to keep it artificially high? So that consumers will pay more?

Maybe the reason is the supply of truckers are not scarce. Quite easy to get training and job as a trucker.

It will all go away eventually with robot self-driving trucks in the near future. They are already out there anyways.

What I would do, if you are low-skilled labor, is start demanding a universal income.


Low skilled? Try it. Let me know how you fair in the Rockies with 80k lb pushing you down a 13 percent grade on ice, or how you did with that blindside alley dock, or how you made out when you pooped the hill and nothing but brake lights.
Also remind the judge you are just a low skilled worker when the prosecutor starts throwing professional and higher standards around.

The six week six grand training does not teach you to drive it teaches you to barely pass a state test. You are put with a trainer for 3 months before toubare trusted to drive by yourself.
Then these companies have a 90 percent turnover rate because most people cant hack it.
They either realize that if they had two full time min wage jobs they would be home all the time, make more, have no liability, and work less hours or wreck and ruin their cdl.
Drivers are often out a month and home two days. For 40k a year. They have the liability of a Dr, the skill of a master tradesman, and the pay of a illegal worker.
They are not paid for layovers often, detention rarely, never paid for sleeping in a truck or repairing and inspecting company equipment or doing paper work.

The same load may pay 3 dollars a hour one day and 20 the next.
There are those that say nascar drivers are not skilled also. It's easy to marginalize someones occupation, when you spout party lines.
There is wage manipulation going on and the trucking companies are doing it.

[This message has been edited by dennis_6 (edited 04-16-2017).]

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Report this Post04-16-2017 11:32 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MidEngineManiacSend a Private Message to MidEngineManiacEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
On that universal income Witchita.

Its been tried up here with some success (and some failure) as an experiment. The main problem was it was taxpayer funded, and the libs in Ontario want to take another crack at the exact same thing this year or next in a FEW cities.

Whats going to happen is all the $500/mo welfare from the have-not cities are going to pour into the $2000/mo have cities and now there is a housing and crime crisis happening. Brilliant.

The only way it would work is if the government stops funding it with taxes and starts selling natural resources at market value instead of giving them free to private companies, and using that revenue for a universal income.... And then we are back in the USSR. So it wont work.

I know if they select this city as a test ground, I am gettibg the hell out as fast as I can and screw the free money. No amount would be worth dealing with the problems it would bring.

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Report this Post04-16-2017 11:45 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MidEngineManiacSend a Private Message to MidEngineManiacEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

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I dont know about trucking, Dennis but its a pretty standard formula in repair work.

They hire the FNG for $X/hr, and give him a $1/yr raise to keep him interested. By the time year 3 rolls around he is too expensive so they find a reason to dump him and replace him with another FNG and the cycle starts again.

If you have a business background and can move to management or contract you will be OK, but the guy who just went to trade school is pretty much stuck in the cycle. And repair is not low skilled work. Some stuff is simple but some of the machines look like a space shuttle on the inside.

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Report this Post04-16-2017 01:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dennis_6Send a Private Message to dennis_6Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Forgot mention trucking is the most deadly occupation.
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/story?id=87825

Also truckers live a avg of 61 years, 17 years shorter than the national average. Still think low wages are justified?

Better hope they have robotic trucks soon the avg age of a trucker is 48. Btw robotic trucks can not pretrip, drop and hook, back, handle bad weather, or complex situations.
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Report this Post04-16-2017 02:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 82-T/A [At Work]Send a Private Message to 82-T/A [At Work]Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by dennis_6:

Remember there is a driver shortage, so supply and demand is working as well as trickle down economics.
-----

Trucker pay has plummeted in the last 30 years, analyst says
PAYJames Jaillet |March 04, 2016
Share Tweet LinkedIn Email Pin It reddit this

Pay for truck operators has failed to keep up with inflation since 1980, effectively slashing truckers’ wages by nearly a third, according to analyst Gordon Klemp, president of the National Transportation Institute.

Klemp, who spoke Feb. 26 on a conference call with investors and reporters, said truckers wages averaged $38,618 annually in 1980. If adjusted to 2015 dollars, that would be over $111,000 a year, Klemp said.

http://www.overdriveonline....years-analyst-stays/




This has nothing to do with unchecked capitalism... this has to do with unchecked immigration.

If the number of trucks and commerce has gone up, but the wages have gone down, then that means that there is a "glut" of available truckers. Being a trucker, while certainly requiring a lot of skill (I hated just driving a big U-Haul with an auto trailer across town), it can be had with nothing more than a CDL that you can get in typically less than a month.

Honestly... jobs will come and go. Cyber / Network Defense, Doctors, Lawyers, stuff like that is huge right now. One day, you may find that Network Defense Analyst positions are done by AI (behavioral analytics) and then their demand and pay will go down.

Just happens.

[This message has been edited by 82-T/A [At Work] (edited 04-16-2017).]

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Report this Post04-16-2017 02:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dennis_6Send a Private Message to dennis_6Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:
This has nothing to do with unchecked capitalism... this has to do with unchecked immigration.

If the number of trucks and commerce has gone up, but the wages have gone down, then that means that there is a "glut" of available truckers. Being a trucker, while certainly requiring a lot of skill (I hated just driving a big U-Haul with an auto trailer across town), it can be had with nothing more than a CDL that you can get in typically less than a month.

Honestly... jobs will come and go. Cyber / Network Defense, Doctors, Lawyers, stuff like that is huge right now. One day, you may find that Network Defense Analyst positions are done by AI (behavioral analytics) and then their demand and pay will go down.

Just happens.



The problem is there is a shortage not a surplus. Hence capitalism has not corrected the low wages. Millenials certainly are not flocking to trucking.

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Report this Post04-16-2017 02:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for williegoatClick Here to visit williegoat's HomePageSend a Private Message to williegoatEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Having spent most of my life around trucks as a driver and in management, I can tell you that Dennis is absolutely right.

There is certainly not a "glut" of available drivers. As a matter of fact, there has been a severe driver shortage for nearly 20 years now. It is a very tough job and the pay is no longer where it should be.

There are places where you can get a CDL in a week, but you will not get a job. I worked at a reputable trucking school and courses were around six weeks, then you had a license but there was still an internship that lasted for several months before your training was complete. Most good companies require a year or more of experience, not including training. In my observation, it took five years to become a real driver.

Many start out with the idea that driving is easy. They do not last.

If drivers could get the pay and respect they deserve, the shortage would go away.

[This message has been edited by williegoat (edited 04-16-2017).]

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Report this Post04-16-2017 06:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for HudiniSend a Private Message to HudiniEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I don't doubt that driving is a tough job. However unchecked capitalism is supply and demand. If pay is going down then there is no shortage.
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Report this Post04-16-2017 06:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for LitebulbwithaFieroSend a Private Message to LitebulbwithaFieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
My buddy's been driving for a few years now. Makes right around the 100k a year mark and is not away from home for more then 2 days. I don't think he has it that bad.
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Report this Post04-16-2017 07:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dennis_6Send a Private Message to dennis_6Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by LitebulbwithaFiero:

My buddy's been driving for a few years now. Makes right around the 100k a year mark and is not away from home for more then 2 days. I don't think he has it that bad.

Your buddy is the exception, then.
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Report this Post04-16-2017 07:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 82-T/A [At Work]Send a Private Message to 82-T/A [At Work]Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by dennis_6:

The problem is there is a shortage not a surplus. Hence capitalism has not corrected the low wages. Millenials certainly are not flocking to trucking.


 
quote
Originally posted by williegoat:

Having spent most of my life around trucks as a driver and in management, I can tell you that Dennis is absolutely right.

There is certainly not a "glut" of available drivers. As a matter of fact, there has been a severe driver shortage for nearly 20 years now. It is a very tough job and the pay is no longer where it should be.

Many start out with the idea that driving is easy. They do not last.

If drivers could get the pay and respect they deserve, the shortage would go away.



Guys, I'm confused. Being serious here... are you sure there's actually a shortage of drivers?

Supply and demand works on the principle of where if there is a limited supply and there is a greater demand, then cost goes up. It is literally where the supply curve and demand curve meet that value is generally determined.

If the driver pay is low... or really low, then that means there is more than enough drivers to fill the demand. That's just how it works.


So, look... driving huge trucks is hard, I know this. Like I said, having driven a U-Haul with an auto trailer across 1,400 miles... I can only IMAGINE how much more difficult something 4-5 times the size must be. So I'm not insinuating that truck driving is a worthless job that any idiot can do; however, if companies are willing to hire idiots to do this job, and are willing to accept the risk associated with how these idiots drive... then they've effectively solved the supply problem for that service.

Cost to hire employees will only go up if demand for trucking outweighs the supply of drivers. There's no accounting for skilled drivers, if the companies aren't willing to pay for them. So... if that's your argument, that companies aren't willing to pay money for good drivers, then let's just be clear on that. That has nothing to do with unchecked capitalism. But there definitely cannot be a shortage of "drivers" if the driver pay is going down or remains stagnant throughout the years.
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Report this Post04-16-2017 07:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for williegoatClick Here to visit williegoat's HomePageSend a Private Message to williegoatEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
There are good driving jobs out there. I spent most of my driving career with a private carrier. Those jobs demand a high level of professionalism and are willing to pay for it, but many of those jobs have dried up as a result of outsourcing. That happened to me, but I was fortunate enough to parlay my experience into a second career in management. Those opportunities are rare.

The driver shortage is very real and undeniable, but I will not blame that or the poor working conditions and low pay on capitalism. A quick internet search will produce many articles that can explain it much better than I could. I am not an economic expert. I have enough trouble trying to figure out how much to tip at the restaurant.
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Report this Post04-16-2017 09:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dennis_6Send a Private Message to dennis_6Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:
Guys, I'm confused. Being serious here... are you sure there's actually a shortage of drivers?

Supply and demand works on the principle of where if there is a limited supply and there is a greater demand, then cost goes up. It is literally where the supply curve and demand curve meet that value is generally determined.

If the driver pay is low... or really low, then that means there is more than enough drivers to fill the demand. That's just how it works.


So, look... driving huge trucks is hard, I know this. Like I said, having driven a U-Haul with an auto trailer across 1,400 miles... I can only IMAGINE how much more difficult something 4-5 times the size must be. So I'm not insinuating that truck driving is a worthless job that any idiot can do; however, if companies are willing to hire idiots to do this job, and are willing to accept the risk associated with how these idiots drive... then they've effectively solved the supply problem for that service.

Cost to hire employees will only go up if demand for trucking outweighs the supply of drivers. There's no accounting for skilled drivers, if the companies aren't willing to pay for them. So... if that's your argument, that companies aren't willing to pay money for good drivers, then let's just be clear on that. That has nothing to do with unchecked capitalism. But there definitely cannot be a shortage of "drivers" if the driver pay is going down or remains stagnant throughout the years.

A quick google search will confirm the shortage wich is predicted to hit crititcal levels in the future. Pretty much the entire industry, including the trucking companies admit there is a large shortage. Just no one is willing to fix it.
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Report this Post04-16-2017 09:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dennis_6Send a Private Message to dennis_6Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

dennis_6

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quote
Originally posted by williegoat:

There are good driving jobs out there. I spent most of my driving career with a private carrier. Those jobs demand a high level of professionalism and are willing to pay for it, but many of those jobs have dried up as a result of outsourcing. That happened to me, but I was fortunate enough to parlay my experience into a second career in management. Those opportunities are rare.


The driver shortage is very real and undeniable, but I will not blame that or the poor working conditions and low pay on capitalism. A quick internet search will produce many articles that can explain it much better than I could. I am not an economic expert. I have enough trouble trying to figure out how much to tip at the restaurant.


Its not capitalism at fault. It is the abuse of that system.

That is what i meant by unchecked. If there are no watchdogs we end up with crony capitalism and the system doesn't fix itself.
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Report this Post04-16-2017 09:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for williegoatClick Here to visit williegoat's HomePageSend a Private Message to williegoatEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I could probably write a book, but I am not sure I would survive the experience; and I don't think anybody would actually care, anyway.

I am very happy to be away from the industry.

[This message has been edited by williegoat (edited 04-16-2017).]

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Report this Post04-16-2017 10:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FatsSend a Private Message to FatsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by dennis_6:

Remember there is a driver shortage, so supply and demand is working as well as trickle down economics.
-----

Trucker pay has plummeted in the last 30 years, analyst says
PAYJames Jaillet |March 04, 2016
Share Tweet LinkedIn Email Pin It reddit this

Pay for truck operators has failed to keep up with inflation since 1980, effectively slashing truckers’ wages by nearly a third, according to analyst Gordon Klemp, president of the National Transportation Institute.

Klemp, who spoke Feb. 26 on a conference call with investors and reporters, said truckers wages averaged $38,618 annually in 1980. If adjusted to 2015 dollars, that would be over $111,000 a year, Klemp said.

http://www.overdriveonline....years-analyst-stays/


Unchecked? Since when is this crap unchecked?

The Government pays companies to hire drivers..... I can't do anything without literally telling the Government every step of the way.. And a lot of times I am told how, when and where to drive by the Government.

Brad
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Report this Post04-16-2017 10:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FatsSend a Private Message to FatsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Fats

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quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:
Guys, I'm confused. Being serious here... are you sure there's actually a shortage of drivers?

Supply and demand works on the principle of where if there is a limited supply and there is a greater demand, then cost goes up. It is literally where the supply curve and demand curve meet that value is generally determined.

If the driver pay is low... or really low, then that means there is more than enough drivers to fill the demand. That's just how it works.


So, look... driving huge trucks is hard, I know this. Like I said, having driven a U-Haul with an auto trailer across 1,400 miles... I can only IMAGINE how much more difficult something 4-5 times the size must be. So I'm not insinuating that truck driving is a worthless job that any idiot can do; however, if companies are willing to hire idiots to do this job, and are willing to accept the risk associated with how these idiots drive... then they've effectively solved the supply problem for that service.

Cost to hire employees will only go up if demand for trucking outweighs the supply of drivers. There's no accounting for skilled drivers, if the companies aren't willing to pay for them. So... if that's your argument, that companies aren't willing to pay money for good drivers, then let's just be clear on that. That has nothing to do with unchecked capitalism. But there definitely cannot be a shortage of "drivers" if the driver pay is going down or remains stagnant throughout the years.


There never has been a driver shortage. It's all propaganda. If there was a shortage Florida, with its low rates would suffer the most. Do you have fruit rotting at the docks? Ever hear of it happening? No shortage.

Brad
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Fats

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quote
Originally posted by dennis_6:

Your buddy is the exception, then.


No he's not. Average with my company is also around 100k a year.

The key is (and it's capitalism) to research the companies you go to, and don't buy into the "I deserve more because I'm a skilled driver" bullshit. Any monkey can drive a semi now. Most companies such as SWIFT stick drivers in autoshift trucks, with auto braking systems, and monitor and correct (or try to correct) their bad driving with dash cameras.... And pay them pennies. Companies that hire foreign drivers (Russian or Arab) are worse, but that's another subject.

You have to have value. If you aren't getting paid what you are worth you are in the wrong place. If you want more and are in the right place you need to learn more skills. It's a simple formula.

I wanted to make more, I learned tankers. I wanted to make more, so whenever I was at our plant and saw the loader needed help I jumped on a forklift and helped him out. I wanted to make more so I stopped eating all the truck stop food and started cooking on my own. (Penny saved is a penny earned.)

And it works. Last year I was offered and turned down a management position in our company. I make damned good money, and I'm in the middle of our drivers for pay. I go home when I want, and I don't have someone yelling at me over the phone asking why I'm not doing ______.

Capitalism. Market yourself, and make more money.
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Report this Post04-16-2017 11:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Spektrum-87GTSend a Private Message to Spektrum-87GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Truck drivers, paramedics, teachers...

These are victims of a supply glut.

Think it's bad for truck drivers? Average paramedic salary is around $32k a year and they have quite a bit of schooling. It's also a very taxing job, especially mentally.

The truth is that there is not a glut of the truck drivers. If there was, companies would pay more. As long as Company X can find someone to drive for a set wage, they will. Corporations are not going to let their goods sit and collect dust because they cannot afford to pay a driver another $0.10 cents a mile.
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Report this Post04-17-2017 05:51 AM Click Here to See the Profile for E.FurgalSend a Private Message to E.FurgalEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by dennis_6:

Remember there is a driver shortage, so supply and demand is working as well as trickle down economics.
-----

Trucker pay has plummeted in the last 30 years, analyst says
PAYJames Jaillet |March 04, 2016
Share Tweet LinkedIn Email Pin It reddit this

Pay for truck operators has failed to keep up with inflation since 1980, effectively slashing truckers’ wages by nearly a third, according to analyst Gordon Klemp, president of the National Transportation Institute.

Klemp, who spoke Feb. 26 on a conference call with investors and reporters, said truckers wages averaged $38,618 annually in 1980. If adjusted to 2015 dollars, that would be over $111,000 a year, Klemp said.

http://www.overdriveonline....years-analyst-stays/



SORRY,, YOU ME AND EVERYONE ELSE EARNED THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SO STOP YOUR BITCHIN'

Truckers wages have gone down.. sure.. but that is only because imgrants will work for a whole lot less than teamsters ... Has ZERO To do with unchecked Capitalism.. BUT like most people,, you want to shift the blame on the wrong part of the pie chart..
Truckers just like construction workers, and many other job's.. got sent a nice wake up call.. that illegals, and those on visa's, or anyother means of being in the US of A will happily work for a lot less than the American worker.. BUT NO ONE GAVE TWO SHITSA as long as it was happening to someone ELSES jobs..
Hell. most employed them to build them a house/barn/garage/shop/ or do their lawns/ect.. but now that they are causing truckers pay to drop.. it's a problem.
Well, sadly.. YOU BUILT THIS.. As a whole.. the "What me worry, I'm doing fine, screw everyone else" mindset is what got us here..
Maybe, place the blame on the REAL cause.. not some b/s crap..
Cost PER mile to run a truck is 3x what it was in 2000..
It's to late as the non- born here workers are not leaving , and if by chance most do, the robot truckers will be their replacement..

Having worked shipping and receiving, and the way most of the well paid truckers act..
A) want to be in and out, fast. and cry when you check the delivery before signing for it.. when the box is crushed, or the load should be x pieces but the receiver from years of doing it, can tell it's missing pallets..
b) wants to be in and out, but won't help get the load off the truck.. They will stand there and bitcha .
c) doesn't have the correct numbered seal on the door.. and then wonders why they are stuck at the dock for an hour.. waiting on a reply from the warehouse, that ok, we noted it, you can unload now..
d)Back the truck into the dock so hard , and then won't help rebuild the pallets that are all over the truck, but keep looking at watch, and complaining ..

Sorry.. They all built this..
As the trucking companies, now know the lower paid workers will,
1) work for less
2)help unload the drops,
3) will help when a load needs to be checked, without cry'n. like a ***** .
4)Will rebuild a pallet that has fallen over..

Now, instead of blaming the evil trucking companies../etc.. look in the mirror..
The truckers actions,
The American workers not caring about the non born here workers and lowering wages as long as it didn't effect their job, and jumped with joy, if it was saving them money..
now, are crying..
Oh, Well.. you reaped what you sow..

[This message has been edited by E.Furgal (edited 04-17-2017).]

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cliffw
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Report this Post04-17-2017 07:04 AM Click Here to See the Profile for cliffwSend a Private Message to cliffwEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by dennis_6:
Forgot mention trucking is the most deadly occupation.
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/story?id=87825


You know what they say about statistics ?
"There are lies, damn lies, and statistics".

From your link ...

 
quote

More truck drivers were fatally injured on the job, 852, than workers in any other single occupation, ...

Construction was the most deadly industry, with 1,154 deaths.


*****************************************************************************

 
quote
Originally posted by dennis_6:
Also truckers live a avg of 61 years, 17 years shorter than the national average.


Now why is that ? I have worked with many truckers over the years. They basically sit on their azz all day long, all year long. Never getting exercise. Most are overweight.

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dennis_6
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Report this Post04-17-2017 12:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dennis_6Send a Private Message to dennis_6Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by cliffw:


Now why is that ? I have worked with many truckers over the years. They basically sit on their azz all day long, all year long. Never getting exercise. Most are overweight.


Read it again, it was speaking of prior years. I.E. Trucking overtook construction as the deadliest.
Construction [b]was[/b] the most deadly industry, with 1,154 deaths. That was down about 3 percent from 1999, the first decline since 1996. Transportation was the second-most deadly industry, with 957 deaths, followed by services (768), agriculture (720), manufacturing (668), retailing (594) and government (571).
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Report this Post04-17-2017 12:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dennis_6Send a Private Message to dennis_6Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

dennis_6

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Member since Aug 2001
Trucking Industry Driver Shortage Threatens American Consumer Lifestyle
https://www.trucks.com/2016...threatens-lifestyle/

State of Trucking for 2017: The Driver Shortage
http://www.truckinginfo.com...ucking-for-2017.aspx

Labor Paradox: As Trump Fights For Jobs The Trucking Industry Struggles With 'Yuge' Labor Shortage
http://www.zerohedge.com/ne...iler-driver-shortage
The trucking industry is the lifeblood of the U.S. economy. Over 70% of all the freight tonnage moved in the U.S. goes on trucks. Without the industry and our truck drivers, the economy would come to a standstill. To move 10.5 billion tons of freight annually requires over 3.4 million heavy-duty Class 8 trucks and over 3.5 million truck drivers. It also takes over 38 billion gallons of diesel fuel to move all of that freight. Simply – without trucks, America stops.
http://www.trucking.org/New...Driver_Shortage.aspx

The never-ending truck driver shortage
http://www.logisticsmgmt.co...ruck_driver_shortage
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Report this Post04-17-2017 05:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RodneyClick Here to visit Rodney's HomePageSend a Private Message to RodneyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The US government deregulated trucking in 1980:

The deregulation of the trucking industry began with the Motor Carrier Act of 1980, which was signed into law by President Carter on July 1, 1980.

Gone are most of the well paid Teamsters and such truck driver positions. Supply and demand determines the income of drivers now. Comparing 1980's big union truck driver wages plus inflation is probably not a fair comparison.

Rodney
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Report this Post04-17-2017 05:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WichitaSend a Private Message to WichitaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

[This message has been edited by Wichita (edited 04-17-2017).]

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Report this Post04-17-2017 05:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for randyeClick Here to visit randye's HomePageSend a Private Message to randyeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
28 posts into this and I'm still not clear if the complaint is really about capitalism or the dearth of high paying truck driving jobs.

Just how *precisely* does this supposed "checking" (whatever that means), of our economic system of capitalism mediate the complaint of low paying truck driving jobs?

[This message has been edited by randye (edited 04-17-2017).]

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MidEngineManiac
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Report this Post04-17-2017 06:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MidEngineManiacSend a Private Message to MidEngineManiacEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Unchecked capitolism, in time, ends in slavery (free labor) no rights (forget constitutions, you waived all your rights for that 1-cent a week job) and a destroyed planet because why would anybody pay for waste disposal when they can just dump crap.

It is profit at all costs.

Here is one I just heard 1/2 hour ago from a guy I used to work with.

75% or better of the over-the-road repair gig is driving from one service call to the next. I used to drive 4 hours to do a 10-minute repair. Tge company he i working for now has decided 2-tier pay is a good idea. He will be making minimum wage for driving time, and tech pay for repair time.

How long do you think that company is going to hold on to techs (if they get anybody in the first place) ? And what are tbe turnover and training costs going to be?

But, its capitolism. If you dont like it somebody else will, somebody with less experience so we can pay him even less for the repair time and increase profits.

Oh, he cant afford to buy the product we are selling? Somebody else will (until all the companies pull the same trick on the staff, then we are screwed)

Incredibly short sighted thinking.

[This message has been edited by MidEngineManiac (edited 04-17-2017).]

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Report this Post04-17-2017 08:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MidEngineManiacSend a Private Message to MidEngineManiacEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

MidEngineManiac

29566 posts
Member since Feb 2007
This is uncecked capitalism at work.
http://www.trueactivist.com...hould-be-privatized/

How do you feel about paying him cash for every drop of rain that hits your land? Just because he says so and claims ownership of it.
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Report this Post04-17-2017 08:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cliffwSend a Private Message to cliffwEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by cliffw:
You know what they say about statistics ?
"There are lies, damn lies, and statistics".


 
quote
Originally posted by dennis_6:
Read it again, ...


And ? I did. What changed ?

 
quote
Originally posted by dennis_6:
Trucking Industry Driver Shortage Threatens American Consumer Lifestyle


Think of the children of the American consumer. I need a cry towel.


What's next ? Free Shipping will be more more free ?
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82-T/A [At Work]
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Report this Post04-17-2017 08:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 82-T/A [At Work]Send a Private Message to 82-T/A [At Work]Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by dennis_6:

Trucking Industry Driver Shortage Threatens American Consumer Lifestyle



I'm trying to be reasonable about this. But... the logic isn't adding up.

If there is a shortage of drivers, then the trucking industry would be desperate to hire more drivers, and they would offer competitive wages in order to pull drivers from one truck company to another truck company. That's just how it works.

You or Williegoat mentioned "outsourcing." What exactly do you mean? Are you talking about H1Bs? because you can't really outsource that which is required to be domestic. That's technically called in-sourcing... if that's what you mean.

If that's the case then, your complaint should be with the congressmen and senators that are willing to bring these people in.


I'm trying to follow your logic, but it's just not adding up in my mind. What you're suggesting defies the logic of supply and demand.
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Report this Post04-17-2017 08:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for randyeClick Here to visit randye's HomePageSend a Private Message to randyeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by MidEngineManiac:

Unchecked capitolism, in time, ends in slavery (free labor) no rights (forget constitutions, you waived all your rights for that 1-cent a week job) and a destroyed planet because why would anybody pay for waste disposal when they can just dump crap.



You're conflating 2 really unrelated things here.
Slavery
Environmental Laws

Neither of which directly addresses free market capitalism and how labor markets within that economic system operate.
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Report this Post04-17-2017 09:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MidEngineManiacSend a Private Message to MidEngineManiacEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The point was, left unchecked capitolism will change the laws to its favor since its one and only goal is increased profits. It matters little if those laws are enviromental, labor, criminal or anything else. They stand in the way of growth and profit.

Dont get me wrong, I love capitolism its a great system. I just recognize it needs limits and constraints put on it to prevent it from devolving back to fuedalism. Believe me, I know a few CEOs who think staff ARE serfs and laws are something to be circumvented or ignored as an inconvienience.

Ill be testifying against one later this year unless there are more delays or a settlement. (No, not my case thats still 18 months off. The types I am talking about tend to step on a lot of toes)
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Report this Post04-17-2017 09:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for williegoatClick Here to visit williegoat's HomePageSend a Private Message to williegoatEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I do not blame the driver shortage or the working conditions on capitalism. It is the fault of the trucking industry. The problem is complex and as stated above, the details are in the many articles written in the trade journals over the years. There are solutions, but many trucking companies are not willing to change the way they do things. Believe me, I have tried. A concise discussion is far beyond the scope of this forum. I, for one am not willing to write and post the considerable number of pages necessary to explain it. You can do as I have over the years: read the trade journals.

When I speak of outsourcing, I refer to the way many companies no longer have a transportation, IT or accounting department. These jobs are outsourced to companies like J.B. Hunt, EDS or Robert Half. For better or worse, it is the way business is done in this modern world.

When I say that OTR trucking is a tough job, it is much more than just being able to successfully operate the equipment. It is the long hours, substandard day to day living conditions, weeks away from friends and family, and so much more.
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Report this Post04-17-2017 09:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cliffwSend a Private Message to cliffwEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by MidEngineManiac:
The point was, left unchecked capitolism will change the laws to its favor since its one and only goal is increased profits.


Did a law create capitalism ?

I am a capitalist. I don't have to drive no truck for crappy profit.

What driving down trucker's wages I would guess is that some people will drive a truck for crappy wages, likely in a crappy truck.
They are scared to quit. They form a union and just strike.

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Report this Post04-17-2017 09:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MadMarkSend a Private Message to MadMarkEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by MidEngineManiac:

]I know a few CEOs who think staff ARE serfs and laws are something to be circumvented or ignored as an inconvienience.

Ill be testifying against one later this year unless there are more delays or a settlement. (No, not my case thats still 18 months off. The types I am talking about tend to step on a lot of toes)


Your comment above is basically what the Left Wingers think of us peons. They think we are too dumb to rule ourselves so they feel that the enlightened ones like them should control everything. They, the elite, would make us all equally poor and stupid while they enjoy all the benefits of the ruling class.
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Report this Post04-17-2017 09:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for randyeClick Here to visit randye's HomePageSend a Private Message to randyeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by MidEngineManiac:

Dont get me wrong, I love capitolism its a great system.


I'll have to take your word for it because, while I'm very familiar with CAPITALISM, I'm not sure just what "capitolism" is.

Is that the belief that every country should have a capitol?
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Report this Post04-17-2017 09:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cliffwSend a Private Message to cliffwEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by williegoat:
When I say that OTR trucking is a tough job, it is much more than just being able to successfully operate the equipment. It is the long hours, substandard day to day living conditions, weeks away from friends and family, and so much more.


Welcome to the oil fields.

[This message has been edited by cliffw (edited 04-17-2017).]

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