I'm a current events and history hound. I was down for a while recently with the flu, and have had a lot of time to do some digging into the topic, and also watch the media three ring circus following the recent national elections.
With that said, what are the thoughts on the subject of my fellow Forum members? I'll share my thoughts and insights later in the conversation.
I am not schooled enough on the whole hacking fiasco other than the BS. I am concerned for larger parts of that area due to current turmoil regarding the Ukraine. I know that most of what is happening in that region is being repressed within current news giants. Little to no news is being released. If you dig, there are atrocities going on right now.
The only reason that I mention this is that it takes a lot of resources to fight a war. Several really board intelligent Russian hackers (children basically) could disrupt enough to influence an election. I do not for one moment believe otherwise. It is possible.
It's actually well known, but it's not very popular.
I made a post a while back (tried to find it but cannot), and I went into significant depth.
The reason why Russia preferred Trump to win is because it helps Russia.
Let me explain, without being too winded:
Russia's relationship with China is strained. Think United States and Mexico's relationship, but 20 years into the future (pretending that Hillray had won). China has the second largest economy in the world. They have grown exponentially, and have profited greatly on Russia. A lot of the manufacturing that used to be done in Russia (seriously) has all moved to China, literally across the border. Although you may BELIEVE that they are allies... Russia despises China like you wouldn't believe. Worse than any ill feelings the working class in America may have towards workers in Mexico that have taken their jobs.
Now, second point. The only way that Russia can reverse this trend is to provide competition to China. The ONLY country in this world that is still an economic challenge to China, is the United States. The stronger the United States can become economically, the more pressure it puts on China to expend capital for economic growth to compete. This puts China at a disadvantage, and now... Russia is in a better economic position to compete with China. Basically, the weaker America can make China, the stronger Russia can become.
It all comes down to the TPP.
Understand that Hillary, whether this bothers you or not, or whether you support this or not, does not genuinely have the best interest of the working class or middle class in mind. For anyone reading, please just hold back your frustration. The reality is... the Democrat party is not the party of Kennedy anymore. They are beholden to an idea of a stronger "one-world" type government. This is driven VERY LARGELY by the idea that the only way to control the masses, is if you literally control ALL the masses. It's two-fold... for one, the Aristrocracy / 1% (whatever you prefer), can only really control the global economy if they can reduce America's influence and control over the world. Second, from an ideological standpoint, the fact is that Democrats do believe that most people aren't smart enough to make the "right" decisions in their lives, and the only way to seek a utopian type of environment is through global control. As long as there is competition, socialism will ALWAYS fail.
To recap:
1 - Hillary and most in the Democrat party and many in the Republican party support the TPP... both because they have been lobbied to do so, or it is personally gainful (politically) for them to do so. This would embolden China, and make it stronger. 2 - Russia wants a weaker China, and the only way to do that is to make a stronger United States 3 - Trump is a Nationalist... like Kennedy, like Reagan... albeit with a decidedly more unique personality than either of the two.
Consider the fact that the last several nominees from either party:
They are all globalists... and not meaning that they like global trade, I mean that they ultimately believe the natural progression of this world is a funnel up to a single governing body. America still exists, but we relinquish much of our economic power to the larger governing body (IE: UN or whatever becomes of it).
Well said. I can't say that I disagree with a single point.
As for what the Russian Agenda even is, I suppose that all depends upon your outlook. As for the basic "communist / socialist" agenda, I think it's all the minions of Hillary and Bernie. All the people who just want to be taken care of (or want everyone else to be taken care of) as short sighted as that is.
Regarding the recent stink about "Russians hacking the election"... I am of the opinion that there is not a damned thing that the Russians could have done to materially influence the election. The voting machines were on LANs, but none of them were connected to the internet. Accessing them from outside was just not possible.
Regarding the emails... all the information (dirt) was already known. Or at least suspected. If anything, they (or Assange) just made it more accessible. And there were rumors that even THAT info came from a disgruntled Dem insider. Whatever it was, it was the perfect shitstorm, and it all just reinforced the way the US people were leaning, anyway.
FWIW... I still think the "basket of deplorables" comment was one of the most important single events that occurred. I think it became a rallying cry. Every anti-Hillary person became a "proud - in-your-effing-face - deplorable".
[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 03-26-2017).]
They are all globalists... and not meaning that they like global trade, I mean that they ultimately believe the natural progression of this world is a funnel up to a single governing body. America still exists, but we relinquish much of our economic power to the larger governing body (IE: UN or whatever becomes of it).
The present *model* is the European Union, (EU). Ostensibly formed for economic purposes, (The EEC), the member nations have gradually ceded more and more sovereignty over their own affairs to the European Parliament which has become the de facto "One Europe Government", (e.g. Maastricht and Lisbon Treaties).
I've heard and read opinion pieces stating that Russia is trying to undermine Americans faith in our system of government.
Who, in your opinion, is currently carrying the ball for this part of their agenda?
The Republican party, especially Trump's crew, seem to be doing much of the "heavy lifting" there.
Paul Manafort (managed Trump's campaign for ~5 months) Michael Flynn (had to resign as NSA, due to lying about contacting Russia to mention Obama sanctions re: hacking) Roger Stone Jr. (claimed to have had direct contect with Russian hackers before leaks) Carter Page (went to Russia to make a speech in Moscow, during campaign, while working on the campaign)
Russian mafia boss lived in Trump Tower in 2013. Florida mansion that nobody wants to buy, Trump just sold to a Russian oligarch for way more than it's worth.
Rex Tillerson, as Sec. of State is skipping a NATO meeting to go to Russia. Tillerson is former Exxon CEO and still holds plenty of investments. Russia sanctions under Obama admin killed a $500 billion oil deal, which Tillerson and Trump admin seem to be very interested in bringing back to the table.
There is definitely a lot of concern in the Trump admin with Russian connection in this regard. I'd expect to see a grand jury and possibly indictments soon.
The Republican party, especially Trump's crew, seem to be doing much of the "heavy lifting" there.
Paul Manafort (managed Trump's campaign for ~5 months) Michael Flynn (had to resign as NSA, due to lying about contacting Russia to mention Obama sanctions re: hacking) Roger Stone Jr. (claimed to have had direct contect with Russian hackers before leaks) Carter Page (went to Russia to make a speech in Moscow, during campaign, while working on the campaign)
Russian mafia boss lived in Trump Tower in 2013. Florida mansion that nobody wants to buy, Trump just sold to a Russian oligarch for way more than it's worth.
Rex Tillerson, as Sec. of State is skipping a NATO meeting to go to Russia. Tillerson is former Exxon CEO and still holds plenty of investments. Russia sanctions under Obama admin killed a $500 billion oil deal, which Tillerson and Trump admin seem to be very interested in bringing back to the table.
There is definitely a lot of concern in the Trump admin with Russian connection in this regard. I'd expect to see a grand jury and possibly indictments soon.
There's a lot wrong here... the least of which is the agency that you apparently tied Michael Flynn as having resigned from.
I've heard and read opinion pieces stating that Russia is trying to undermine Americans faith in our system of government.
Who, in your opinion, is currently carrying the ball for this part of their agenda?
I can't speak as to who might *currently* be aiding any Russian Federation agendas, but we do know who ACTUALLY DID directly try to enlist COMMUNIST SOVIET assistance in a U.S. election:
“On 9-10 May of this year,” the May 14 memorandum explained, “Sen. Edward Kennedy’s close friend and trusted confidant [John] Tunney was in Moscow.” (Tunney was Kennedy’s law school roommate and a former Democratic senator from California.) “The senator charged Tunney to convey the following message, through confidential contacts, to the General Secretary of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union, Y. Andropov.”
Kennedy’s message was simple. He proposed an unabashed quid pro quo.
Kennedy would lend Andropov a hand in dealing with President Reagan. In return, the Soviet leader would lend the Democratic Party a hand in challenging Reagan in the 1984 presidential election.
"When President Reagan chose to confront the Soviet Union, calling it the evil empire that it was, Sen. Edward Kennedy chose to offer aid and comfort to General Secretary Andropov. "
It seems to me the press and the Progressive left wing of the DNC, in trying to delegitimize the election of DJT, is doing a lot to undermine the public's faith in our Republic.
[This message has been edited by olejoedad (edited 03-26-2017).]
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: There's a lot wrong here... the least of which is the agency that you apparently tied Michael Flynn as having resigned from.
I did not state Flynn resigning from an agency. I said he was NSA. As in that was his role. National Security Advisor. Don't assume every three letter acronym only means one thing.
So no, there wasn't much of anything wrong in my post. Everything I listed has been reported on by multiple sources.
You can disagree and clamor on about "fake news" all you want, but it won't change the facts.
I love how the right just keeps trying to avoid responsibility with their constant whataboutism.
"What about Hillary?!" "What about Kennedy?!"
How about instead, we stick to the actual topic. Kennedy's massively failed attempt to get Russia to interfere is completely and utterly irrelevant to what is happening today, nor does it allow the GOP to get away with collusion.
