Newly appointed Secretary of Housing and Urban Development Ben Carson offered few policy specifics during his first address to employees on Monday, a meandering speech marked by a startling comparison between slaves brought to the U.S. and immigrants:
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"There were other immigrants who came here in the bottom of slave ships," he said. "They too had a dream that one day their sons, daughters, grandsons, granddaughters, great grandsons, great granddaughters might pursue prosperity and happiness in this land."
[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 03-08-2017).]
Immigration is the international movement of people into a destination country of which they are not natives or where they do not possess citizenship in order to settle or reside there, especially as permanent residents or naturalized citizens, or to take-up employment as a migrant worker or temporarily as a foreign worker.[1][2][3]
Also, Slavery in America began when the first African slaves were brought to the North American colony of Jamestown, Virginia, in 1619, to aid in the production of such lucrative crops as tobacco.
What part of this doesn't apply to slaves? Immigration doesn't have to be voluntary. Someone got offended because a guy used a word slightly out of context. I'm really tiring of the word police and PC culture. Africans migrated across the globe and became slaves, what's the harm here?
Slavery was bad, got it, can we please stop treating Ben Carson like he gave anyone a pass or said anything remotely good about slavery.
History shows that slavery has been part of the human condition since biblical times. Members of the loosing side were part of the spoils of war. The slave trade in Africa existed long before the introduction of slavery on this continent. Thankfully humankind has begun to fight this despicable practice, but sadly, the trade in human beings still continues.
“Certainly, it wasn’t easy for those of African heritage who had not come here voluntarily and yet in their own way were immigrants themselves,” - President Obama during Dec. 2015 speech at a naturalization ceremony.
OOPS! I accidentally overwrote my Original Post with what I meant to be a Reply to what Ray Otton just posted.
All this was meant to be posted here,
Newly appointed Secretary of Housing and Urban Development Ben Carson offered few policy specifics during his first address to employees on Monday, a meandering speech marked by a startling comparison between slaves brought to the U.S. and immigrants:
quote
"There were other immigrants who came here in the bottom of slave ships," he said. "They too had a dream that one day their sons, daughters, grandsons, granddaughters, great grandsons, great granddaughters might pursue prosperity and happiness in this land."
Yeah, OK... but in the context of reference to the African slaves that were being being shackled and shipped to New Orleans and Charleston, I doubt that Obama followed up his remark of "yet in their own way were immigrants themselves" with anything that comes across like this "They too had a dream..." remark from the new HUD Secretary, Dr. Ben Carson.
It's just a difference of degree. Dr. Carson's remark was heard by the people who "negged" him for it as too much of a euphemism. "A Euphemism Too Far."
Actually, when I look at Dr. Carson's remark and try to be objective about it, it's not the exactness of what he said--because I can imagine that some of the slaves in the slave ships actually were thinking (at some point in their voyage) that maybe something good was ahead for them--if not for them personally, then maybe for any children that they might have after they were unloaded and distributed to slave owners in the South. Carson's remark actually goes like that. That whatever lay ahead for them as slaves in the South seemed in the moment like it might be better than whatever circumstances they were leaving behind in Africa. I don't know hardly anything about the African end of the slave trade.
But I think that if Dr. Carson's remarks were screened more carefully ahead of time, a competent speech writer or public communications specialist would likely have redlined the part that went "They too had a dream..." It could have been anticipated that this remark would be heard or parsed as a "sugar coating" of the reality of the slave trade, as the transcripts or video of his remarks reached ever larger concentric circles of publicity, starting inside HUD and then going outwards to the wider news audience that includes the likes of Pennock's enthusiasts like me.
I don't think that Dr. Carson's remarks on this occasion were considered a big enough "deal" as to justify the kind of stringent, red-team style screening that would be expected for a President's inaugural address (for example). Although President Trump's inaugural address, from what I've seen about it secondhand, from news reports, was kind of a bone-headed inaugural speech (in my secondhand estimation). He did better with that more recent presentation that was set up like a "State of the Union" address.
You know what? I saw this as a chance to start a somewhat lighter kind of forum thread. Some "Satire Light". Almost like a mini-SNL skit. My Original Post here is more of a reaction to Trump's Saturday twitter storm, when he accused President Obama of wiretapping his election campaign--more about President Trump himself, vs. the new HUD Sec, Dr. "Ben".
After the large cerebral cortex and distributed nervous system energy discharge that was measured during Saturday morning's TE (Twitter Event), when DJT accused his predecessor BHO of systematically wiretapping the Trump election campaign, followed by the secondary TE on Tuesday morning, when DJT misattributed some 113 Gitmo detainee releases, mistakenly scoring those 113 RDJs (Released Detainees who returned to the global Jihad) against BHO, instead of against BHO's predecessor, GWB, pols and pundits alike can look forward to the high probability of a relatively quiet TE-spectrum weekend during Saturday, March 11 and Sunday, March 12, with Low to threshold-Moderate TE energy emissions, and a zero to 13 percent impact on the cable television 24/7 news cycle across the continental United States.
This is your updated weekend forecast, based on the latest Twitter Event-related data downlinked to the NASA Goddard Space Flight Center from the NASA #realDonaldTrump Orbiting Observatory.
[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 03-08-2017).]
The point of my post was to point out the sheer audacity of the left for exhibiting outrage over Dr. Carson's comment while giving Mr. Obama identical comment a pass.
And because of their audacity we right-minded individuals are not in the mood to be light hearted. We are in the mood to fight back.
President Trump, warts and all, has given us that ability. He's leveled the playing field with one of his Trump Corp. bulldozers and those on the right are forever grateful.
The left? Not so much.
But we really don't expect them to understand. As exhibited right here in O/T.
Originally posted by RayOtton: Or the same way you are a rational member of this community.
Haha. So clever. Come up with that all by your lonesome?
No, Ben Carson did not plagiarize Obama. That is the only way they could have said exactly the same thing. They said similar things, with different tones, and with different understanding. Melania said the exact same thing as Michelle though, when she totally plagiarized her speech.
Well "dobey" (et al), I hope you don't mind (too much) my "waxing philosophical", but there's the text of this discussion--the discussion of Dr. Carson's remarks at HUD--and there's the subtext of this discussion--the lines along which the text of the discussion is being pursued.
The reality of this discussion just transitioned through a Quantum Bifurcation, or to put it more colloquially, a "fork in the road."
Along one path--the path that's just been realized--the previous post, which included a postscript-like remark, at the very end:
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"Now go back to your bridge, little troll."
And the other path? That cannot be known in this universe. Only in the corresponding quantum mirror image alternate universe, which we cannot observe. The universe where the previous post ended with "Melania said the exact same thing as Michelle though, when she totally plagiarized her speech."
I would rather have had this alternate reality (I think), that does not postscript with "Now go back to your bridge, little troll."
"Power is when we have every justification to kill--and we don't." ~ Schindler's List.
They too had a dream that one day their sons, daughters, grandsons, granddaughters, great grandsons, great granddaughters might pursue prosperity and happiness in this land."
The slaves did NOT have a dream of this. They were forced, they were killed, the didn't come to America to pursue prosperity. That is why this quote is insane, it's because he compares voluntary immigration and slavery like they are the same thing, which they are not.
The slaves did NOT have a dream of this. They were forced, they were killed, the didn't come to America to pursue prosperity. That is why this quote is insane, it's because he compares voluntary immigration and slavery like they are the same thing, which they are not.
I am not. He said it, and I believe he did not mean it as a negative. I did not have a lot of faith in Dr. Carson from the beginning, but this is grasping at straws.
“Certainly, it wasn’t easy for those of African heritage who had not come here voluntarily and yet in their own way were immigrants themselves,” - President Obama during Dec. 2015 speech at a naturalization ceremony.
Why is everyone ignoring the second part? The slaves did NOT have a dream of this. They were forced, they were killed, the didn't come to America to pursue prosperity. That is why this quote is insane, it's because he compares voluntary immigration and slavery like they are the same thing, which they are not.
GLAD YOU BROUGHT THIS UP.. YOU "CLAIM " TO BE A TEACHER.. SO ANSWER THESE WON'T YOU.
1)Who sold the slaves into slavery was it? a) the evil white man b) other black country men from other African tribes . . .
2)Slavery has been history in this country for 150 years give or take What country is still in the practice of the slave trade? a) the US of A b) many of the African countries . . . . 3)What race helped many slaves cross through the underground railroad and fought for there freedom ? a)evil whites b) latino's
.. don't try to tell us the civil war was about state rights, It was but the fact that as a race/ as a group you have claimed over and over and over that the rebel flag is racist .. can't have it be one way when it fits your cause and another when it doesn't . . . 4) Every creed of humans have been slaves at one or more times, what one group of race still has not moved forward from claiming pain from slavery that are generations removed from the slavery.? a) irish b) ital. c) roman d) african americans e) Blacks from other parts of the world.. . . . .
5) Why do you think that African americans keep the slavery theme going blaming the evil white people that never owned slaves, many with families that were not even in the US of A when slavery was in use. But refuse to acknowledge the slave trade still being done in Africa, and refuse to do anything about it.. ? a) The slave trade is ok because it's our brothers doing it.. b) acknowledging and fighting against it doesn't get us any free **** . c) we really don't care about slavery only keeping the race hate going as long as we can as we get something out of it. . . .
Lets see if you fail history and current events
[This message has been edited by E.Furgal (edited 03-09-2017).]
We get it already Uncle Ruckus Furgle, you hate blacks.
There it is, telling a black he hates blacks, cause I don't follow the liberal b/s..
I know to you, all us non liberal blacks are not black enough, or and uncle tom (or in your labeling ruckus) . You keep proving my point Donnie, oops I m e a n dobey
Originally posted by RayOtton: There goes the bar. Getting into nuclear meltdown range now.
You'd almost think it was a conscious effort on your part. Which of course is the very definition of an internet troll.
You are the definition of a troll. More concerned about how other people on this very conservative forum view me, than with the facts or content of any discussion.
There it is, telling a black he hates blacks, cause I don't follow the liberal b/s..
I know to you, all us non liberal blacks are not black enough, or and uncle tom (or in your labeling ruckus) . You keep proving my point Donnie, oops I m e a n dobey
You are the definition of a troll. More concerned about how other people on this very conservative forum view me, than with the facts or content of any discussion.
Piss off.
Seriously they keep others around that are way more abrasive than you the only difference I see is that you don't agree with their politics and you challenge them consistently. Sensitive snowflakes..
Oh, I can't be right as I don't bow to the liberal mindset that I'm a victim.. and owed **** for things that never affected me or the last few generations of my family..
[This message has been edited by E.Furgal (edited 03-09-2017).]
Originally posted by E.Furgal: only for 4 decades now..
Oh, I can't be right as I don't bow to the liberal mindset that I'm a victim.. and owed **** for things that never affected me or the last few generations of my family..
No, you're not right because you're an abrasive ******* who blames blacks for all the problems and deny history and facts.
No, you're not right because you're an abrasive ******* who blames blacks for all the problems and deny history and facts.
Sorry.. my facts are history.. And I asked 3dog to answer them.. I know you want to think the facts are not true but they are.. Blacks sold blacks as slaves, and that was after they collected them and took ownership of them.. AND THEY STILL DO TO THIS DAY.. But you're still after the evil white man that freed the Blacks in this country.. And those living today that never owned a slave.. nor did their parents or grand parents or there great great grand parents.. People alive today didn't own slaves, and you nor your parents or grand parents picked cotton as a slave.. You are weak Donnie WEAK
Again, the tolerant left. This thread scream comfort.
Another dobey trash can thread.
Attacking Ray Otton is just more proof that you really are mentally disabled. You have one really great friend in Newf, but the rest of us really would love to see you gone. Even calling E.Frugal out for being black is outrageous. "Uncle Ruckus" is a racist term that the lame stream hasn't grabbed a hold of yet. Calling a person that is likening to calling a person a N*****. You know this, and skirt the rules by thinking you are slicker than grease. You are using racist slang on another member here. Name calling is fine, but "Uncle Rukus" is unacceptable.
Neg reinstated.
[This message has been edited by Tony Kania (edited 03-09-2017).]
Originally posted by Tony Kania: Again, the tolerant left. This thread scream comfort.
Another dobey trash can thread.
Attacking Ray Otton is just more proof that you really are mentally disabled. You have one really great friend in Newf, but the rest of us really would love to see you gone. Even calling E.Frugal out for being black is outrageous. "Uncle Ruckus" is a racist term that the lame stream hasn't grabbed a hold of yet. Calling a person that is likening to calling a person a N*****. You know this, and skirt the rules by thinking you are slicker than grease. You are using racist slang on another member here. Name calling is fine, but "Uncle Rukus" is unacceptable.
Neg reinstated.
Again the tolerant right. Totally OK for you to run around calling people names, and generally being an ******* , and those you agree with, but when people reply in kind, you can't handle it. Go cry in the corner you whiny little prat.
And no, "Uncle Ruckus" is not a racist term. It's a character from a comic/cartoon, you ignorant fool. He's an old black guy that hates blacks. Oh my blacks sold blacks into slavery! So to hell with all the blacks who are upset with the whites who bought them! Joseph's brothers sold him into slavery too. And yes, TO THIS DAY slavery still exists in this country. If you don't think it does, you're a blind ignorant fool.
If you don't want these threads trashed, then stop trashing them by attacking me, rather than discussing the topic of the thread, you bloody cowards.
Originally posted by E.Furgal: only for 4 decades now..
Oh, I can't be right as I don't bow to the liberal mindset that I'm a victim.. and owed **** for things that never affected me or the last few generations of my family..
Again the tolerant right. Totally OK for you to run around calling people names, and generally being an ******* , and those you agree with, but when people reply in kind, you can't handle it. Go cry in the corner you whiny little prat.
The dobey word of the day is "prat". Study it. Learn it.
quote
And no, "Uncle Ruckus" is not a racist term. It's a character from a comic/cartoon, you ignorant fool. He's an old black guy that hates blacks. Oh my blacks sold blacks into slavery! So to hell with all the blacks who are upset with the whites who bought them! Joseph's brothers sold him into slavery too. And yes, TO THIS DAY slavery still exists in this country. If you don't think it does, you're a blind ignorant fool.
Oh, I know the comic. No need for a lesson. You think that everyone is obtuse. Moron.
The term IS being used as an alternative to N*****. You know this and are skirting the rules.
I fully believe that slavery is happening in every state of this Union. Every state. FYI, the muslim population in Michigan alone will certainly account for the largest percentage of slaves in the United States I would bet. Or the sex slave business that we seem to overlook?
quote
If you don't want these threads trashed, then stop trashing them by attacking me, rather than discussing the topic of the thread, you bloody cowards.
So, who is treating you fairly? Let us start there. Keep it simple, then we can progress forward. K?
Originally posted by Tony Kania: So, who is treating you fairly? Let us start there. Keep it simple, then we can progress forward. K?
Not you obviously. How can we progress, when you and none of those like you on here, wish to be civil or act like an adult?
You know who is civil and acts like an adult, and whom i often disagree with on here? maryjane and 2.5 are generally respectful, but sometimes teeter near the edge.
I don't always agree with newf or rinselberg either, but they are respectful and intelligent, and have enough wit to make any disagreement actually amusing.
Last night I read another report about Dr. Carson's remarks at that HUD gathering, where he was basically introducing himself within HUD as the new Secretary of Housing and Urban Development.
The report was in the Chicago Tribune. I can't link to it again, because I have used up my 10 "freebies" for this month.
There were a number of Afro-Americans among the attendance, and according to the Chicago Tribune, no one who was in the room as part of the live audience was taken aback or flabbergasted by any of what Carson had to say, including that reference to the slaves that were brought to the South during the slave trade.
The negative reactions to Carson's remarks came from social media, from people who weren't actually there.
Carson did respond to the ripples on social media by using Facebook to expand on his original remarks, explaining that he fully understood the distinctions between immigrants who opted to come to the United States in their pursuit of happiness, vs. slaves who were offered no say in the matter.
~ Updated from the NASA #realDonaldTrump Orbiting Observatory.
[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 03-09-2017).]
But, that leaves us with the opportunity to improve.
