Sure seems to be a deteriorating situation and also appears that the police and/or city govt is attempting to silence national news coverage. No fly zone means no news helicopters. Reporters arrested but no charges filed at a McDonalds that has freewifi and device recharging outlets available for customers.
I'm not sure if I am surprised or not. I frequent many areas around there but have not been in down town Ferguson. And why do they call it Ferguson. It is St. Louis. Heck it is closer to down town than the airport. Frankly I'm avoiding going to that area of town (including the airport) if I can avoid it.
And why do they call it Ferguson. It is St. Louis. Heck it is closer to down town than the airport. Frankly I'm avoiding going to that area of town (including the airport) if I can avoid it.
The local news here keeps calling it "suburban St. Louis", which seems pretty accurate to me. Its the next town past Jennings if I remember right.
I think we are seeing the militarization of the police forces in many cities. A lot of these cops are Iraqi war veterans and they are using the same equipment and tactics against civilians here that they used in Iraq. The federal government has also given a lot of this equipment to local law enforcement. I guess they are ready if and when our government declares martial law.
I find it hard to believe that this isn't happening more and more, but not by the white folks, god forbid an unarmed white person gets shot by police and the white folks riot ! I mean isn't that what our forefathers did at the Boston tea party. But we, us white folks have all lost our balls for protests since the 60s. Maybe it will happen again, the whites will find there balls and start protesting when an unarmed white kid is shot and killed by a black cop, or any cop for that matter, but to me it seams like the white people have more reasons to protest and riot than the blacks, minorities who have affirmative action, all black colleges, (Try that today with an all white college and see what happens), equal opportunity employment, and more and more and more things we have let happen in the name of equal opportunity to people of color that has put the majority of us in the back of the bus to use a term the people of color used from the 60s.
Steve
------------------ Technology is great when it works, and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't
I don`t think that some people have grasped the reality that you are not going to win an argument with a cop on the street. It`s probably better to "yes sir and no sir" and be on your merry way. I have been on the receiving end of some verbal assault by a cop and I stayed very calm and I think that pissed him off more than if I would have been arguing with him. I think he was just trying to get a rise out of me. In the end, I was taken in for something but at least I didn`t have resisting added to it, which woud have probably been the outcome if I had reacted to him.
Sounds like a "he said/she said" kind of thing. Cop's argument will always win.
Maybe it's the "racist" in me but I'm leaning towards the cop's story on this one. It's been confirmed that he had to seek medical treatment for his injuries so that confirms the cop's story that Brown attacked him. I know everybody has a different level of temper but I can't see a cop (or anyone for that matter) shooting somebody just because they got in the way when he tried to open his door(witness's story).
I've seen a few interviews/Vines of these protesters and not one of them can speak proper English and you can hear the emotion in their voice. I imagine that emotion comes from a "mob mentality" that cops are evil and all they want to do is shoot black people. Maybe if you treated somebody that has a firearm with the respect they deserve, you would have less negative encounters with them. I suppose whether or not they deserve that respect can be debated.
Here's how I see it: Cop encountered two guys (guess I never heard what started the initial contact) who started getting mouthy, cop tried to diffuse the situation and it got out of hand with one of the guys beating him in the face, cop defended himself by putting a few rounds through the guy beating him in the face.
Yeah yeah, why didn't he use the taser?? Why didn't he use pepper spray?? Brown didn't have a gun, why did he have to shoot him?? If I was in the cop's spot and was being over forced by somebody that had a friend with him, I'd do the same damn thing. Obviously (if the cop's story is true) Brown intended to do him harm. Apparently if you are white and are getting the sh!t beat out of you by a black guy you are supposed to lay there and take the beating If you defend yourself, the poor black guy is a victim. His family will tell the reporters that he was a good boy but just got caught up with the wrong people and made a few mistakes. Obama will adopt the kid. Blacks will burn down their own neighborhood in protest. Police will do their job and try to calm the protesters. A protester will cross the line and attack a police officer. The officer will defend himself. And the cycle continues...
Information is still pretty sketchy. But if it's true that Brown attacked a police officer, then it should be no surprise that the officer shot him. Only an idiot attacks a police officer and expects to get away with it.
That said, the police seem to be mis-handling the aftermath of the incident... firing teargas canisters at news vans, trying to suppress news coverage by threatening to arrest reporters. That's just plain stupid, and probably even illegal.
I can't see a cop (or anyone for that matter) shooting somebody just because they got in the way when he tried to open his door(witness's story)
Nor can I, tho that isn't quite what I read as being an impetus for the altercation. As I read it, in 2 different interviews, the officer threw his door open so hard that it bounced off the door hinge stop and boomeranged back onto him.
From Dorian Johnson age 22, the only eyewitness other than the police officer: About 20 minutes before the shooting, Johnson said he saw Brown walking down the street and decided to catch up with him. The two walked and talked. That’s when Johnson says they saw the police car rolling up to them.
The officer demanded that the two “get the f—k on the sidewalk,” Johnson says. “His exact words were get the f—k on the sidewalk.”
After telling the officer that they were almost at their destination, Johnson’s house, the two continued walking. But as they did, Johnson says the officer slammed his brakes and threw his truck in reverse, nearly hitting them.
Now, in line with the officer’s driver’s side door, they could see the officer’s face. They heard him say something to the effect of, “what’d you say?” At the same time, Johnson says the officer attempted to thrust his door open but the door slammed into Brown and bounced closed. Johnson says the officer, with his left hand, grabbed Brown by the neck.
“I could see the muscles in his forearm,” Johnson said. “Mike was trying to get away from being choked.”
“They’re not wrestling so much as his arm went from his throat to now clenched on his shirt,” Johnson explained of the scene between Brown and the officer. “It’s like tug of war. He’s trying to pull him in. He’s pulling away, that’s when I heard, ‘I’m gonna shoot you.’”
At that moment, Johnson says he fixed his gaze on the officer to see if he was pulling a stun gun or a real gun. That’s when he saw the muzzle of the officer’s gun.
“I seen the barrel of the gun pointed at my friend,” he said. “He had it pointed at him and said ‘I’ll shoot,’ one more time.”
A second later Johnson said he heard the first shot go off.
“I seen the fire come out of the barrell,” he said. “I could see so vividly what was going on because I was so close.”
Johnson says he was within arm’s reach of both Brown and the officer. He looked over at Brown and saw blood pooling through his shirt on the right side of the body.
“The whole time [the officer] was holding my friend until the gun went off,” Johnson noted.
Brown and Johnson took off running together. There were three cars lined up along the side of the street. Johnson says he ducked behind the first car, whose two passengers were screaming. Crouching down a bit, he watched Brown run past.
“Keep running, bro!,” he said Brown yelled. Then Brown yelled it a second time. Those would be the last words Johnson’s friend, “Big Mike,” would ever say to him.
Brown made it past the third car. Then, “blam!” the officer took his second shot, striking Brown in the back. At that point, Johnson says Brown stopped, turned with his hands up and said “I don’t have a gun, stop shooting!”
By that point, Johnson says the officer and Brown were face-to-face. The officer then fired several more shots. Johnson described watching Brown go from standing with his hands up to crumbling to the ground and curling into a fetal position. “After seeing my friend get gunned down, my body just ran,” he said. He ran to his apartment nearby. Out of breath, shocked and afraid, Johnson says he went into the bathroom and vomited. Then he checked to make sure that he hadn’t also been shot.
Five minutes later, Johnson emerged from his apartment to see his friend Mike dead and in the middle of the street. Neighbors were gathering, some shouting, some taking pictures with their cell phones.
Freeman Bosley, Johnson’s attorney, told msnbc that the police have yet to interview Johnson. Bosley said that he offered the police an opportunity to speak with Johnson, but they declined.
As of this morning, the Ferguson police have still not interviewed the only non-police witness to the shooting. Freeman Bosley, Johnson's attorney and former mayor of St Louis:
“They didn’t even want to talk to him,” said Bosley, a former mayor of St. Louis. “They don’t want the facts. What they want is to justify what happened … what they are trying to do now is justify what happened instead of trying to point out the wrong. Something is wrong here and that’s what it is.”
The (police radio chatter) tapes were unveiled on the same day that Brown's pal Dorian Johnson — who claims the teen was "shot like an animal" after the cop told him to get on the sidewalk — met with police and FBI investigators. Johnson said the cop grabbed Brown around the neck and tried to pull him through the window of his cruiser.
"He says, 'I'll shoot,'" said Johnson. "A second later, the gun went off and he let go. That's how we were able to run at the same time."
Johnson said he ducked behind a car, but one of the officer's shots hit Brown in the back.
"My friend started to tell the officer that he was unarmed and that he could stop shooting. Before he could get his second sentence out, the officer fired several more shots into his head and chest area.
I grew up in the area. There have always been racial tensions there ever since I can remember. Really all of the Greater STL area has had racial problems to a degree, but Ferguson has been a hotspot for it. This was a long ways comin'.
The looting and rioting I will never get behind, of course, but the peaceful protesters outnumber the rioters by a huge margin. The protesters just aren't getting as much coverage. Now journos and peaceful protesters are getting hit with sound cannons and rubber bullets and tear gas:
The cops are really ****ing this one up.
There are recordings of people in dire need of medical attention, with cops laughing in their faces. Recordings of cops calling the protesters "Filthy animals" and provoking them to do anything. Recordings like above of cops clearing roads by harming peaceful protesters. Recordings of cops going into businesses, ordering everyone to leave, then arresting anyone that films it for "trespassing."
It's bad.
I thought it was going to die after the first night. I thought "Bunch of ignorant idiots started a riot and now their voices won't be heard." But the rioting died down. And the protesting didn't. But the cops came in full force.
It went from an issue of race relations to a full blown first amendment issue.
Take the cop's sides if you want. I did in the beginning because I wanted the looting to stop and I thought the cops were just going to curb that then talk reform. But they've gone overboard now.
Some psychos out there should not be cops, or chiefs, or mayors or judges. Many should probably be locked up. Something that needs to be fixed is the corruptoin that allows them to even get a job like that, or keep it.
[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 08-14-2014).]
The problem with that is, there are so many positions to be filled that it's hard to be picky sometimes. It's the quantity vs quality dilemma. And nowadays, it seems police departments are big on quantity.
The problem with that is, there are so many positions to be filled that it's hard to be picky sometimes. It's the quantity vs quality dilemma. And nowadays, it seems police departments are big on quantity.
This corruption goes right up to the leadership in STL. You can get a bunch of narcissistic assholes to do good if you have a good leader, but when you have the assholes as the leaders too... that's when it causes problems.
I can't believe everything that's happening there. My Facebook feed went from a few Black people saying some egregious things about looting from White neighborhoods and burning down stores while the Whites talked about how idiotic the rioters were and how good the cops were, to a moment of silence while everyone is in shock about how the police reacted, to now people are posting articles and actually just in disbelief. I know a few friends whose dads are cops and they're just quiet right now.
Witnesses say the 'boy' was just standing there surrendering. Sorry to say, I have never ever seen someone being arrested do it peacefully or not trying to get away. Especially when its white cops and a black...They will always get in an out and out fist fight, run like hell, and try to get the cops gun if they dont have one themselves. Even if its one against 20 cops. I dont like cops either, but Ill go with the cops version on this one. His sounds like exactly what you see on tv 10 times a day.
Its probably called Ferguson instead of St Louis just like here. Im in Columbus but its called Reynoldsburg. Theres 40 different named areas in the metro area. They have their own local governments.
Id just let them riot and burn their whole town to the ground. If I was there, Id leave, collect my insurance money when its over...and never be back.
[This message has been edited by rogergarrison (edited 08-14-2014).]
Witnesses say the 'boy' was just standing there surrendering. Sorry to say, I have never ever seen someone being arrested do it peacefully or not trying to get away. Especially when its white cops and a black...They will always get in an out and out fist fight, run like hell, and try to get the cops gun if they dont have one themselves. Even if its one against 20 cops. I dont like cops either, but Ill go with the cops version on this one. His sounds like exactly what you see on tv 10 times a day.
Witnesses say the 'boy' was just standing there surrendering. Sorry to say, I have never ever seen someone being arrested do it peacefully or not trying to get away. Especially when its white cops and a black...They will always get in an out and out fist fight, run like hell, and try to get the cops gun if they dont have one themselves. Even if its one against 20 cops. I dont like cops either, but Ill go with the cops version on this one. His sounds like exactly what you see on tv 10 times a day.
Its probably called Ferguson instead of St Louis just like here. Im in Columbus but its called Reynoldsburg. Theres 40 different named areas in the metro area. They have their own local governments.
I'm going with a mix between the two.
I've been pulled over in STL on a windy road, had to slow down and find a shoulder or driveway to pull into. I took about 30 seconds to pull over because there wasn't anywhere safe. The officer had called backup and I had guns pulled on me from two directions by the time my window was down.
The cops are nuts there man.
EDIT:
quote
Originally posted by rogergarrison:
Id just let them riot and burn their whole town to the ground. If I was there, Id leave, collect my insurance money when its over...and never be back.
Too bad insurance doesn't usually cover riot situations... And you can bet your ass when the police accidentally start a fire on your house all you'll be lucky to get a "sorry."
[This message has been edited by theBDub (edited 08-14-2014).]
I just want to reiterate that the rioters and looters are despicable and I can't underscore that enough! The rioting hasn't stopped and that only helps to go against true reform in that area.
I just want to reiterate that the rioters and looters are despicable and I can't underscore that enough! The rioting hasn't stopped and that only helps to go against true reform in that area.
I am of the same opinion, tho I do understand that peaceful protests are often just ignored and given only light lip service, then forgotten till "the next time". Hopefully some kind of positive change in all areas involved will come soon.
I grew up next to ferguson in Berkeley in the late 60s thru 70s.Yes there was racial tension and I have the scars to prove it.Alot of ferguson is very nice and well kept and of course just like any were else some not so nice, But I met a lot of very good hard working people that care about there community.The looting and property damage was carried out buy thugs coming in from N.St.louis and surrounding communities.32 arrest were made for looting and not one lived in ferguson.
I grew up next to ferguson in Berkeley in the late 60s thru 70s.Yes there was racial tension and I have the scars to prove it.Alot of ferguson is very nice and well kept and of course just like any were else some not so nice, But I met a lot of very good hard working people that care about there community.The looting and property damage was carried out buy thugs coming in from N.St.louis and surrounding communities.32 arrest were made for looting and not one lived in ferguson.
Yep, my family is from East St. Louis and I know my cousins have been posting about their own friends wanting to get into it. Just a bunch of worthless opportunists. But the original QT burning was from Ferguson residents, as it hadn't blown up and gotten much news coverage yet.
At the end of the day, I'm glad the nation is talking about it though. The national news is reporting a strong anti-cop slant which I actually agree with, but it's important to note that there are reports of people shooting at cops, they are throwing lit bottles of alcohol, empty bottles, etc.
I just want everyone to be safe. I know a few cops over there right now. Hopefully they aren't the dirtbags we've been seeing on the news, but pack mentality is a strong thing, and the cops are the alpha males right now trying to put down the rest of the pack. Ugh. So sickening.
When I was in high school, I was regularly harassed by the local police from the moment I got a car. Yes, I am white and all the cops that harassed me were white too. I believe I was targeted because I was a "kid" and I was an "easy target" (ie: someone not likely to challenge them in traffic court).
These days I don't see anyone (young or old, black or white) that are committing traffic offenses getting stopped near as much as I used to. I don't know if the local police attitude towards traffic infringements has changed or what but there seems to be a lot of people blowing red lights, stop signs, and speeding at alarming rates that just don't get attention from the police.
That having been said, the militarization of our nation's police forces is disturbing, and so is the law enforcement and federal government's reaction to this Ferguson situation. But guess who's in charge now? That's right, it isn't BUSH.
But what's more disturbing to me is how everyone can jump to conclusions without first knowing all the facts in this Ferguson case and some demand immediate "justice" (in what form I would like to know); but at the same time they couldn't give a rat's ass about all the black males being shot and killed by other black males every day in this country's big cities like Chicago. Why don't those young black victims in places like Chicago not matter near as much as this kid in Ferguson does?
Is it because this event in Ferguson can be used as an excuse for some to steal, rape, pillage, burn and act like hoodlums while the murders in places like Chicago can't?
[This message has been edited by Darth Fiero (edited 08-14-2014).]
Hopefully they aren't the dirtbags we've been seeing on the news, but pack mentality is a strong thing, and the cops are the alpha males right now trying to put down the rest of the pack. Ugh. So sickening.
Welcome to the reality of a police state that is the wet dream of pretty much every LIBERAL DEMOCRAT that is sitting in a position of power right now. Why else do they want to take away our guns I ask you?
Originally posted by theBDub:My Facebook feed went from a few Black people saying some egregious things about looting from White neighborhoods
Thank God that I have been smart or lucky enough to not live near this kind of crap. The worst I have had to deal with at home was my vehicles being burglarized. Oh, and a very rare few cops in the neighborhood that seems to be trying to provoke a response to the point that I was very aware to not move quickly or not to forget to be overly polite.
Honestly, these people deserve what they get. The protesters don't have the facts. They need to go home, since they are too dumb to avoid being used for an agenda.
The outside troublemakers are an interesting issue. It is convenient that they all gather in these situations. They are also being used to push an agenda, but dumb enough to tjink they are leaders. Just FYI, their leaders aren't getting in harm's way.
Either way lethal force is apparently the only effective one. I would leave the bodies where they fell. Perhaps the message would get through. I wouldn't call any medical people. I also would shoot to disable, probably stomach or chest. No kill shots. In humane? Perhaps. It may save lives. War tactics are used in war. Make no mistake. This is war. We are fighting for our way of life, to be free and American, to prevent either group (government or people) from enslaving the other.
The big problem is that we don't know our history. We're fighting the Civil War again. This war knows no racial or territorial boundaries. It's no less a war because we don't have uniforms, flags, or lines. The outcome of this war (microcosm in Ferguson, MO), will determine if we turn back toward freedom, or continue on the path to socialism and slavery.
I have no idea where to begin with that antiquated tirade--did you go back to the 50s and early 60s and paste it from some 1963 George Wallace speech simply changing a few buzz words around? Northern agitators swapped for outside troublemakers?
"our way of life"---hmmmm, just where have I heard that before?? Selma? Chicago? Montgomery? Jackson? I think I'm going to vomit.
Early in the night yet, but there seems to be a change afoot. Hopefully the presence of the State Troopers and their less aggressive mood and tactics will help end this violence. Will this new found mutual respect hold and work? Maybe--just maybe.
Last night vs tonight so far--(top photo is last night) : Last night:
I think we are seeing the militarization of the police forces in many cities. A lot of these cops are Iraqi war veterans and they are using the same equipment and tactics against civilians here that they used in Iraq. The federal government has also given a lot of this equipment to local law enforcement. I guess they are ready if and when our government declares martial law.
Exactly. And this is probably exactly how it is supposed to progress, whether we like it or not.
The population gets bigger, more violence, more police, urban combat as military tactics in war has already become the norm, which plays right into civilian policing tactics, along with the surplus military equipment, add in an attack on American soil (The Twin Towers) creating the "War On Terror", throw in one of our own (Timothy McVeigh), and about a thousand other "little things" her & there, and you get exactly what we are looking at.
The militarization of the police was inevitable. The scary part is, it probably always is.
I'm beginning to get the feeling everything is cyclic...
[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 08-14-2014).]
The last sentence in the book 'Animal Farm' comes to mind..
"The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which...."
According to a recent report by the New York Times, since 2006 US police departments have collectively acquired 93,763 machine guns; 432 mine-resistant trucks; more than 500 aircraft; thousands of pieces of camouflage and night vision gear; and hundreds of thousands of ammunition magazines, all supplied via a Department of Defence programme.
There is a law enforcement shooting range near one of the lakes I fish regularly and on some weekends you can hear them burning up thousands of rounds using fully automatic weapons. I have to wonder why in the world does a policeman need a fully automatic weapon? They are held accountable for every bullet that is fired from that gun. And automatic weapons, by nature, aren't very accurate due to recoil and muzzle jump.
That is a good start! hope this guy gets some traction. I will bet he does but the opposition will be ruthless.
quote
From: HuffPost's Jennifer Bendery
Rep. Hank Johnson (D-Ga.) announced Thursday that he plans to file legislation aimed at stemming the militarization of local police -- something on full display this week in Ferguson, Missouri, where officers in riot gear have been showering largely peaceful protesters with tear gas and rubber bullets.
In a letter to his Democratic colleagues, Johnson asked for support for his bill, theStop Militarizing Law Enforcement Act. The measure would rein in a Defense Department program that provides Mine-Resistant Ambush Protected vehicles, M16 assault rifles and other surplus military equipment to local law enforcement, free of charge.
"Our main streets should be a place for business, families, and relaxation, not tanks and M16s," Johnson says in his letter. "Our local police are quickly beginning to resemble paramilitary forces. This bill will end the free transfers of certain aggressive military equipment to local law enforcement and ensure that all equipment can be accounted for."
I wonder if this bill will also prevent non-law enforcement branches of the federal government (like NOAA, the US Weather Bureau, the US Post Office, The Social Security Administration, and many others) from purchasing millions of rounds of ammunition like they have been either past or present? Everybody has turned their attention to what the local law enforcement is armed (and is arming) with, but should we be ignoring all these non-law enforcement federal agencies who are doing the same??? WHY does the Social Security Administration need millions of rounds of ammunition?
[This message has been edited by Darth Fiero (edited 08-15-2014).]
Exactly. And this is probably exactly how it is supposed to progress, whether we like it or not.
The population gets bigger, more violence, more police, urban combat as military tactics in war has already become the norm, which plays right into civilian policing tactics, along with the surplus military equipment, add in an attack on American soil (The Twin Towers) creating the "War On Terror", throw in one of our own (Timothy McVeigh), and about a thousand other "little things" her & there, and you get exactly what we are looking at.
The militarization of the police was inevitable. The scary part is, it probably always is.
I'm beginning to get the feeling everything is cyclic...
Right, except we aren't experiencing more violence.
If you defend yourself, the poor black guy is a victim. His family will tell the reporters that he was a good boy but just got caught up with the wrong people and made a few mistakes. Obama will adopt the kid. Blacks will burn down their own neighborhood in protest. Police will do their job and try to calm the protesters. A protester will cross the line and attack a police officer. The officer will defend himself. And the cycle continues...
