Piss ant dictators. I bought me a new chain saw. The fuel oil mixture mandates a certain type of two stroke oil. Or, warranty will be void. WTF, ? One of my vehicles specifies "this" oil, another "that" oil. WTF, ? How many different species of oil do I need to keep on hand ? Capitalism, at its worst.
Don't know if they specify their own oil for warranty or not, but I've seen several Stihls ruined by running cheap axx 2 cycle oil in them. I have one I bought in '07 and it has never seen anything but Stihl oil in it and has never failed me. Other than that, I've abused the crap out of that thing.
Piss ant dictators. I bought me a new chain saw. The fuel oil mixture mandates a certain type of two stroke oil. Or, warranty will be void.
Car forums are notorious for people mis-interpreting the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. But in your case, I think you have a legitimate gripe.
Per the Act, manufacturers aren't allowed to require use of their specific branded parts as a condition of keeping the warranty intact. Unless those items are provided to the consumer for free.
That's why we can use Wix and Purolator filters in our GM cars without violating the warranty. And I can use Castrol or Pennzoil oil even though the oil cap says "Mobil 1 Recommended". They can't require me to use it to keep the warranty intact.
You might be able to beat them if it went to court. Unless there's some fine print in the specifications that makes their oil different from everybody else's. Which might be the case with Maryjane's Stihl saw.
Originally posted by css9450: Per the Act, manufacturers aren't allowed to require use of their specific branded parts as a condition of keeping the warranty intact. Unless those items are provided to the consumer for free.
That's why we can use Wix and Purolator filters in our GM cars without violating the warranty. And I can use Castrol or Pennzoil oil even though the oil cap says "Mobil 1 Recommended". They can't require me to use it to keep the warranty intact.
They can however require your oil to meet certain standards and if the oil you use doesn't meet that...
For example, My old Fiat Abarth (1.4L Darts too) required 3 things per the owners manual 1) It shall be SAE 5W-40 full synthetic engine oil 2) It shall be API Certified 3) It shall satisfy Chrysler Material Standard MS-10896.
A lot of Oils failed to meet that third criteria at the time so I was spending $70 at a time ordering cases of Pennzoil Ultra.
It sucks being dictated to what brands ect to use, but there is a reason for it. We live in a societey f flippin retards who refuse to take responsability for thier own pure stupidity. as well as a mix of lawyer filf and liberalist judiciary that back up the morons and like to go gold-digging whenever they can to force somebody else to pay for a retard being a retard. Its a world where people need stickers on blow dryers not to use them in a shower or hot beverages are hot and businesses end up paying millions to these a-holes. Its become a world where stupidity is very profitable.
You ( and the manufacturers) know damn well sooner or later some drain-dead dummy is going to use canola oil or something in the 2-stroke, and when he fracks it up is going to go whining to a lawyer how its the manufacturers fault the thing wouldnt work properly or at all on HIS oil of choice and the company owes him a new one (probably so he can frack it up with sunflower oil) plus millions for his hurt feelings. By specifying one and only one oil like that, the manufacturer has given themselves an "out" from any argument about it.
BELEIVE ME, from the repair and warranty side of things, companies DO get pretty sick-and-tired of these imbiciles and thier expectation that somebody else be responsable for thier stupidity. Most humans these days are about as well suited for machinery as an elephant is for scuba diving.
[This message has been edited by MidEngineManiac (edited 04-02-2014).]
Its a world where people need stickers on blow dryers not to use them in a shower or hot beverages are hot and businesses end up paying millions to these a-holes. Its become a world where stupidity is very profitable.
You said they mandate the type of oil. Not that you must use their brand, correct? If so, what is the problem? They don't want you to use an oil that may harm engine, as there are many different brands of 2-stroke oil. Read up on the specs that are required and go shopping. If you don't agree with these terms, return the product. It is a free market.
They can however require your oil to meet certain standards and if the oil you use doesn't meet that...
For example, My old Fiat Abarth (1.4L Darts too) required 3 things per the owners manual 1) It shall be SAE 5W-40 full synthetic engine oil 2) It shall be API Certified 3) It shall satisfy Chrysler Material Standard MS-10896.
True that. My GM car requires GM Spec 6049M (if my memory is correct!) for regular oil of which there are dozens but the one which requires synthetic needs Spec 4718M of which there are only a handful.
Originally posted by css9450: Car forums are notorious for people mis-interpreting the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. But in your case, I think you have a legitimate gripe. Per the Act, manufacturers aren't allowed to require use of their specific branded parts as a condition of keeping the warranty intact. Unless those items are provided to the consumer for free.
They are not requiring me to use their brand but are trying to bamboozle me/you/us into using it. By playing on consumer ignorance. As per mfg requirements ... As per manufacturers requirements ...
quote
Two Stroke Oil - A two-stroke engine oil meeting ISO-L-EGD (ISO/CD 13738) and J.A.S.O. FC/FD Standards must be used. Echo brand premium Power Blend X TM Universal 2-Stroke Oil meets these standards. Engine problems due to inadequate lubrication caused by failure to use an ISO-L-EGD (ISO/CD 13738) and J.A.S.O. FC/FD certified oil, such as Echo premium Power Blend X TM, will void the two-stroke engine warranty.
So now I have to know oil properties to ensure if my other three flavors of two cycle oil meet or exceed aforementioned mfg specifications, . Anyone know of a reference chart ?
quote
Originally posted by jaskispyder: HUH? Don't like it? Don't buy it.
You said they mandate the type of oil. Not that you must use their brand, correct? If so, what is the problem? They don't want you to use an oil that may harm engine, as there are many different brands of 2-stroke oil. Read up on the specs that are required and go shopping. If you don't agree with these terms, return the product. It is a free market.
, good morning to you too. I am as capitalistic as they come. I am gonna buy anything but their brand unless it is cost attractive. There may be times I can not find their elixir.
quote
Originally posted by tesmith66: I have used this for years in all of my 2 bangers:
Interesting. My equipment needs either 40:1 or 50:1. What is that stuff ? The photo is a little fuzzy. Opti2 ?
All my two cycle equipment (snowblowers, saws, trimmers) gets the cheapest oil I can find (usually walmart.) I've never had any oil-related failures & my wife has snowblowed a few times & added straight (unmixed) gasoline to a half-full tank of mixed fuel without any damage to the snowblower.
It is kinda like GM requiring "DEXOS" oil in all 2011 & up engines. Nothing really changed in their engines from 2010 to 2011, but it is a way for GM to make a buck.
I've noticed on many two-cycle gadgets that if you use their "premium" oil, the mix ratio is less oil. I just mix a bit more of the "cheap" oil & never had a problem.
Yes, Opti-2. I get it from my local farm store in tubes that make 2 gallons. Squeeze a tube in the can before going to the station, add 2 gals of gas, give it a shake and you're done.
I have a Lawn Boy mower, chain saw and 2 trimmers that all use different ratios. Been using this stuff in all of them for the past 6 or 7 years. Our latest trimmer, a Troy-Bilt, has only had this oil since new. It survived the warranty period just fine.
I don't sweat the warranties on these things. If it fails within the first season, take it back to the store. If it survives into the second season, it'll last a while.
Originally posted by FrugalFiero: All my two cycle equipment gets the cheapest oil I can find (usually walmart.) I've never had any oil-related failures.
What's a snow blower, ? I am with you there. Even in my autos I do not buy premium oils. I also have never had an oil related failure. My last chain saw (McCoullugh) was bought in 1989 and still runs. It needs a carb and a bar. McCoullogh is no longer made and parts are difficult to get. However, more and more, especially with the disposable society we live in now, things are being made cheaper. Some oils have additives which engines need, such as a zinc coating, perhaps lead. It's hard to keep up. I wonder. What makes a two cycle oil a two cycle oil, ?
quote
Originally posted by tesmith66: I don't sweat the warranties on these things. If it fails within the first season, take it back to the store. If it survives into the second season, it'll last a while.
I am also with you there ... 'cept this Echo CS 310 (14" bar, eight pounds) has a five year warranty, parts and labor.
I have 2 stroke weedeater,generator and snow blower. I got some oil at a lawn shop over the winter thats in those little premeasured bottles. They only had one size. I asked about different ones since my one generator is 40-1, snow blower is 32-1 and weedeater is 50-1. They told me to ignore all the ratios now that the oil is synthetic...you can use the same mix in any 2 stroke. Im going with that unless thats proven otherwise.
I have 2 stroke weedeater,generator and snow blower. I got some oil at a lawn shop over the winter thats in those little premeasured bottles. They only had one size. I asked about different ones since my one generator is 40-1, snow blower is 32-1 and weedeater is 50-1. They told me to ignore all the ratios now that the oil is synthetic...you can use the same mix in any 2 stroke. Im going with that unless thats proven otherwise.
That sounds odd ot me, ignore the ratios? I know there is alot fo room for error and a better oil should lube better, but maybe what they mean is this amount is rich enough for the richest mix demands, too rich for the rest but it wont hurt.
I wonder. What makes a two cycle oil a two cycle oil, ? .
Basically it has to be designed to burn clean, take higher stresses, but for less time than a 4 stroke oil, since it gets replaced with the gas (often).
That sounds odd ot me, ignore the ratios? I know there is alot fo room for error and a better oil should lube better, but maybe what they mean is this amount is rich enough for the richest mix demands, too rich for the rest but it wont hurt.
I think so too.
I buy those little Ace Hardware oil bottles, the kind where you add one bottle to a gallon of gas. The instructions say its good for any ratio from 30-1 to 50-1.
So far the snowblower is surviving on it LOL I may have just jinxed it by saying so!
You said they mandate the type of oil. Not that you must use their brand, correct? If so, what is the problem? They don't want you to use an oil that may harm engine, as there are many different brands of 2-stroke oil. Read up on the specs that are required and go shopping. If you don't agree with these terms, return the product. It is a free market.
agree completely as well as with Don, so that is kind of counter to each other, but I have seen it myself as well with chainsaws, my Husqvarna's say only use there overpriced oil as well, WTH the difference is I have no idea, never actually read the labels but do know there are many different types of 2 stroke oils. ones for outboard motors, chainsaws, weed whackers, and all the rest. I do have a container of 50 W oil in the shop that was in the basement of Melanie's dads place after he died she brought a lot of the tools and things home her mom was just going to throw out or give away. that can of 50 W says it is also can be used for 2 cycle oil, I got to go water here in a little bit and I will see if I can find it and post a picture of the label.
But if its in the manufacturers warranty I would think you would have to use it if you want them to cover the machine under its warranty. it may have some sort of additive to it, that is not in other 2 cycle oils available today. ever see how many there are out there, there must be a hundred different kinds you can by, some manufacturers of machines, some just oil company 2 cycle oils.
So buyer beware I guess.
quote
Originally posted by css9450:
I think so too.
I buy those little Ace Hardware oil bottles, the kind where you add one bottle to a gallon of gas. The instructions say its good for any ratio from 30-1 to 50-1.
So far the snow blower is surviving on it LOL I may have just jinxed it by saying so!
I actually bought some from Aubuchon's hardware in those small bottles that says 30 to 50 mix and the amount in the bottle is a lot less than the bottle could hold and doesn't give any instructions for changing the amount per the different mix.
On that note, what mix puts more oil into the gas, 30 or 50? I would think that would be safer than not enough.
Steve
------------------ Technology is great when it works, and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.
[This message has been edited by 84fiero123 (edited 04-02-2014).]
On that note, what mix puts more oil into the gas, 30 or 50? I would think that would be safer than not enough.
Steve
30 is more oil. (30 parts gas per 1 part oil) The larger number is the gas, the 1 is the oil.
Q: How do you mix 50 to 1 gas and oil?
A: A gallon is 128 fl.oz. So, to mix a 50:1 gas to oil ratio, you divide 128 by 50 which is 2.56 fl. oz or 0.32 cups. That's about 1/3 cup oil per gallon of gas.
This can be handy for measuring:
I remember my dad always just putting a quart of 2 stroke oil in a 5 gallon gas can and shaking it up to mix it for our old snowmobiles.
[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 04-02-2014).]
I have used a fancy little measuring funnel that has all the ratios on it. The snow blower is easy, at 32-1 i just put an oz in a quart of gas at a time...a quart fills the tank once. The generator has its own measuring cup under the cap for the proper amount of oil for the tank. 50-1 is just a little more complicated but the measuring funnel is OK. They said these little bottles ( 3.5-4 ounces it looks like) is good for a gallon of any ratio. More might be better, but it smokes more, fouls plugs and doent run as well before when I just bought 2 cycle oil in quarts and mixed it. When I got the mixture too rich with oil on the weekeater, it didnt have any power on tough weeds...ran better when i added more gas to thin it out. It was so finicky, I just bought a B&D cordless electric one that works better...
The old 2-cycle engines took 1/2 pint of oil to 1 gallon of gas (16:1) but the modern ones take half as much oil or less.
Better oil is definitely needed when less is used. The Wiki says:
quote
Engine original equipment manufacturers (OEMs) introduced pre-injection systems (sometimes known as "auto-lube") to engines to operate from a 32:1 to 100:1 ratio. Oils must meet or exceed the following typical specifications: TC-W3TM, NMMA, [API] TC, JASO FC, ISO-L-EGO.
Originally posted by spark1: [QUOTE]Engine original equipment manufacturers (OEMs) introduced pre-injection systems (sometimes known as "auto-lube") to engines to operate from a 32:1 to 100:1 ratio. Oils must meet or exceed the following typical specifications: TC-W3TM, NMMA, [API] TC, JASO FC, ISO-L-EGO.
I have been doing some reading. JASCO and ISO are acronyms representing standards bodies which are recognized as defining minimums a product must possess to be up to par. JASCO is a Japanese institution and ISO is the International Standards Organization. JASCO's FC is a standard, which is the same as ISO's ISO-L-EGO. What I have not learned yet is which standards exceed others. The above TC-3TM is a standard for marine engines no matter if the oil is mixed with the gas or injected into it.
quote
Originally posted by cliffw: What makes a two cycle oil a two cycle oil, ?
quote
Originally posted by 2.5: Basically it has to be designed to burn clean, take higher stresses, but for less time than a 4 stroke oil, since it gets replaced with the gas (often).
Bingo with emphasis on burning clean as to leave minimal residues on spark plugs (prevent plug fouling), cylinders and exhaust ports. They also are designed to inhibit preignition and prevent ring sticking and crankcase sludge formation. They are also definitely not interchangeable.
I mentioned I have been using the Opti-2 stuff for many years with ZERO problems. One mix for all machines- easy. In addition, all of my machines have the original spark plugs in them. Haven't even cleaned them. Furthermore, I don't run stabilizer or even drain them. Just put them up and forget about them. No problems.
I mentioned I have been using the Opti-2 stuff for many years with ZERO problems. One mix for all machines- easy. In addition, all of my machines have the original spark plugs in them. Haven't even cleaned them. Furthermore, I don't run stabilizer or even drain them. Just put them up and forget about them. No problems.
Almost nothing small engine carb where I live stays clean without stabil. Mixed gas or straight gas.
I should try this stuff.
[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 04-03-2014).]
Originally posted by 2.5: Almost nothing small engine carb where I live stays clean without stabil. Mixed gas or straight gas. I should try this stuff.
I noticed that the 2 cycle oil recommended for my chainsaw contains a stabilizer. I looked at the Opti 2 website to see if theirs did but did not see an answer. I meant to call them. Thanks for the reminder.
Originally posted by cliffw: I noticed that the 2 cycle oil recommended for my chainsaw contains a stabilizer. I looked at the Opti 2 website to see if theirs did but did not see an answer.
When I mix a batch of gas, I just throw away whats left at the end of the season. I cant help but think over several months, some gas will evaporate, but not the oil, and changing the ratio. Maybe it dont. I just dont take the chance with a 1/2 gallon of gas being stored.
When I mix a batch of gas, I just throw away whats left at the end of the season. I cant help but think over several months, some gas will evaporate, but not the oil, and changing the ratio. Maybe it dont. I just dont take the chance with a 1/2 gallon of gas being stored.
I'm too chea....err...frugal to throw away old fuel & I don't like to dump it in the ground. If fuel is only one season old, I just add a small amount of it to fresh fuel as needed to use it up.
I have never used any fuel / oil additives. I leave fuel in 4-cycle engines over the winter (including my cars stored for the winter.) I drain & run all my infrequently used two-cycle equipment after each use, and frequently used equipment at the end of the season.
I see a myriad of comments about fuel going bad after a few months and maybe it does, (& I've found alot of stuff in the trash with truly bad fuel...whew!) but I can't recall having any issues starting equipment up after storage due to "bad" fuel.
I'm too chea....err...frugal to throw away old fuel & I don't like to dump it in the ground. If fuel is only one season old, I just add a small amount of it to fresh fuel as needed to use it up.
I have never used any fuel / oil additives. I leave fuel in 4-cycle engines over the winter (including my cars stored for the winter.) I drain & run all my infrequently used two-cycle equipment after each use, and frequently used equipment at the end of the season.
I see a myriad of comments about fuel going bad after a few months and maybe it does, (& I've found alot of stuff in the trash with truly bad fuel...whew!) but I can't recall having any issues starting equipment up after storage due to "bad" fuel.
Yup, I haven't had any issues with old fuel, which is contrary to what Roger says. Heck, the old fuel that was in my '73 international pickup was brown and smelled pretty bad, yet it still ran fine in the lawnmower (and in the truck until I re-sealed the tanks). We know fresh fuel is best, but for the most part, it doesn't degrade enough (within a few years) to not burn, unless you have a ton of water. Now, this is for Michigan gas. Maybe in Ohio it is different.
?
. Anyone know of a reference chart ?
, good morning to you too. I am as capitalistic as they come. I am gonna buy anything but their brand unless it is cost attractive. There may be times I can not find their elixir.
?
?
