I really want an answer so before you ban me how about a real answer folks and don’t just call me a racist for starting this thread. I have black friends and see them use it all the time but if I use it they get very upset. My godson is half black and white. His dad and I get along great, but I haven’t seen them since we moved to TN. His brother on the other hand thinks I am raciest, and has almost gotten in a fight with his own brother if I use the word even when it has nothing to do with them or anyone of color.
I mean I know white people who I consider N’s because of the way they act.
So please Doni, Newf, and any others who are Black/African American/colored or whatever the PC term is now. Don’t get insulted or upset I just want clarification on why you call each other that and it seems doesn’t bother you.
What is your problem with it, if it is not meant as an insult to you? I don’t get mad one someone calls me a cracker or whitey or whatever. Putting on my flame retardant suit and preparing to get band. Steve
------------------ Technology is great when it works, and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.
Join the club Steve....my ex is black as are my 2 kids....imagine having to deal with right in the family.
I have told Dylan (the worst at it) if he didn't like the words I use, he should look up the Canadian bill of rights and see "free speech".....but I blame my ex, she is one of those who thinks she is in charge, in power, and in control and "entiled" because of an accident of birth, and has spent 15 years brainwashing the kids how they have "special rights"
I figure that anyone who wants to use that word... That's their problem. I have to believe that it shows a lack of class on the part of whoever uses it. Black or White.
I mean I know white people who I consider N’s because of the way they act.
Steve
I think that sentence right there might be your problem.
How does someone have to act for you to consider a ****** ? I would assume that you have a negative connotation of the word, and is apparent to those that you call niggers.
In rap/hip hop culture, it is seen as more of a term of respect or brotherhood.
Just 2 cents from your average 21-year old white male.
My take on it isnt the word itself...its that another human seems to think they have so much power and superiority over ya, that THEY are "allowed" to use a word, but you arent...it could be any word, doesnt really matter which one---its a power/ control issue.
I feel, quite strongly, that I can comment on this subject. Just one of many, many stories available to the populace...
Several years back, in Detroit, a group of us went to an after hours party just off of 8 mile. As we entered, I noticed, and so did everyone at the party notice, that I was the only white guy there. As I entered, I said, "What's up my Ni***?!" to another friend sitting on a couch. Well, immediately someone had something to say. Then, just as quickly as can be, "T" grabbed my by the collar, and let it be known to all there that I was his Ni***, and any problems with what I said should be directed at him. ("T" is one not to mess with. )
All words have a place and time. It is how you say it, not when you say it. Would I just go up to any African American and spout off ignorance? Hell no. But, in my group of friends, I can talk just as freely as them. It is accepted, and understood. If you don't understand this, then please NEVER use words that are degrading to other races. Period.
This thread should get interesting, but it will probably fail. Those that are of another race than I should know this... I feel that we are all of the Human race. It is your actions that create barriers. Not your color. I have expressed this numerous times on this forum, and I feel confidently that I will not get backlash from fellow members. Heck, I know of one Gay member that I would love to have a beer with. And I don't drink.
I figure that anyone who wants to use that word... That's their problem. I have to believe that it shows a lack of class on the part of whoever uses it. Black or White.
You know I respect you. Actually very much.
Please read my previous post. (I know, I just posted.) It sums it up clearly. It is a matter of respect to use it in the right context. The word alone is derragatory, but in context, it is a form of greeting. This coming from a 40 year old white male.
I read somewhere that to call someone(anyone) the 'n' word was to call them uneducated and to use the word indicates self loathing and a lack of self-respect.
An older black guy I know almost beat a black teenager to death because the teen said it in reference to one of his friends. Bricks were shat that day...
Black guy in my platoon in the Army used to call me 'n' and refused to answer to anything but 'cracker'.
Rather than start into a lengthy dissertation on the subject, I'll let Pryor say it for me. To put this clip into context, it was filmed after his first trip to Africa.
BTW, 84Fiero....I wouldn't even entertain the notion of giving you a "neg" simply for asking the question. No flames from my end.
[This message has been edited by Doni Hagan (edited 05-23-2012).]
If you're White it's a simple answer. Don't use it. Only use the word if you're serious about getting into a fight, killing or mayhem.
BEEP, wrong answer.....see 1st amendment and Bill of Rights 1(d) for research materials.....those wanting to fight/murder/mayhem over the use of a word are the ones in the wrong, not the one using the word....and as I said, could be any word.
<edit>
How long before some group decides the word "stove" is offensive because they cook over open fires, and decides they are going to dictate to an entire society that only they can use the word "stove" ????????
[This message has been edited by MidEngineManiac (edited 05-23-2012).]
Doni, I do consider you a friend. I would NEVER refer to you, or even think of saying that word to you. It would be unexcuseable. But, in the bowels of the "D", as much as we don't like it, it is accepted.
Just recently, last week, I had to have the talk with my folks about using that word around my family. Even though Benjamin cannot talk more than ten words, it will not be one taught by us.
And oh yeah, I am a Godfather to a beautiful, bright, and loving African American boy that we love dearly.
As a person of African ancestry, it comes down to the level of friendship. It would be like calling somebody a lunatic, which to most would be offensive, to a good friend it's just a jest. The funny thing is that so many White people say "I have friends that are Black", just means they just know people who are black. You aren't really friends. I know a lot of White people, but only a very few are what I would call good friends and even fewer that could call me nigga.
It goes for my black friends too. If a black person who is somebody I don't know called me nigga, it wouldn't be right.
So the reason you can't use the n-word is because you don't have close black friends.
If you're White it's a simple answer. Don't use it. Only use the word if you're serious about getting into a fight, killing or mayhem.
Really? Ignorance is strong in this one. What gives you special privilage to use it, while I cannot? (See previous post.) As the ONLY WHITE GUY IN THE ROOM, and surrounded by friends, we CAN say what we want. No one will tell us how to talk in a closed environment. Amongst friends, we are a single unit. I grew up in a predominately black neighborhood, and my friends were predominately black. Being a white guy, having black friends in Detroit has it's advantages. And having those black friends kept me alive. Literally.
I would NEVER dare to refer to anyone that is not accepting of the word as such. That would be ignorance on my behalf, and the consequences may be great. But to generalize that as a white man I cannot use a word that you can, then once again, we are far off.
Wichita... Well said. Knowing that you are of African decent, and one that doesn't exude racism, I am glad that you spoke those words. I would never, and could never think of using that word when refering to you. It IS wrong, even though we can be internet friends. If I said it to you, I would expect a smack down coming my way. Period.
If you're White it's a simple answer. Don't use it. Only use the word if you're serious about getting into a fight, killing or mayhem.
That wasn't really the question though. Why does a white person using that word incite violence (from mainly the black populous), while a black person using the term doesn't?
In Tony's story, why did the rest of the party get angry when he addressed his friend? And why should his friend's acceptance of the term impact how they allowed him to use the term afterwards?
In Tony's story, why did the rest of the party get angry when he addressed his friend? And why should his friend's acceptance of the term impact how they allowed him to use the term afterwards?
Only for clarification... One had an issue, while the rest of the party laughed it off. "T" had my back, and I his.
It's about power. The "N" word was used as a derogatory term for blacks during a period when they had less power than white people. By taking the term and using it for themselves, they have claimed that power for themselves. It's not uncommon for a group of people to take a derogatory term used to describe them and use it themselves, in some ways as a badge of honor. It's a way of reclaiming the power they felt was taken from them by the people who originally coined the term.
However, at some point the word should adopt it's new meaning and leave the old meaning behind. I hear most black people who use the N word use it like white people use the word "dude." It no longer has the derogatory meaning in that context. The double standard comes in when a white person uses it in the same context and that's considered racist. They've gone full circle now because in that case the offended black person is manufacturing the offense where none was originally intended and they are in fact taking away their own power and respect.
Rather than start into a lengthy dissertation on the subject, I'll let Pryor say it for me. To put this clip into context, it was filmed after his first trip to Africa.
BTW, 84Fiero....I wouldn't even entertain the notion of giving you a "neg" simply for asking the question. No flames from my end.
Good clip, I had not seen it before. I think it sums up my thoughts on it also. I don't want to use the word, ever. Words have power, and I assume that some black people feel empowered by using a word freely, that once was only spoken by white racist, in the past. However, I disagree with that premise. As I said, words have power, and I believe it only devalues their culture, and not empower them when they use it on their brethren, joking or not. I hope that makes sense.
Thanks for clarifying Tony, and the rest of the party's reaction is how it should be, where they understand the context it is used in, and no offense is taken by anyone when there wasn't any intended.
Good post Formula88. I agree.
(Anyone see "She's Out of My League"? Stainer coined his nickname in similar fashion, in order to take the power away from those that made fun of him for wetting his pants.)
As much as I want to continually comment in this thread, I am extremely confident that I have made my point. From this point forward, it is understood my that my position has been stated. I do not want to "lose it" amongst friends.
If anyone of color feels that I am being deragatory towards them, black or white (or whatever) please feel free to PM me. I WILL NOT post any of the PMs. It will be kept between us, as men.
if I use the word even when it has nothing to do with them or anyone of color.
How can that particular word not have anything to do with "anyone of color"? What other context is there, unless you are discussing etymology?
quote
I mean I know white people who I consider N’s because of the way they act.
I have heard other people say this. It makes no sense, unless you are going to redefine the word in question as a blanket term of contempt. But it was never that. It has historically been used to brand/insult black people only.
sorry, double standard that is all... al sharpton and jackson,(among others) sould be going after the rappers/comics/etc that use that word... cause if you Amos and say a b ball girls teams players hair is frizzy, your a racist.. unless your colored... double standards, cause lets face it. if that word really TRUELY bothered then that much.. AND IT SHOULD. they should stop anyone that uses it.. no matter the context.... PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! it don't bother them at all. it's just a tool in their race card tool box.. nothing more nothing less... no ONE can prove otherwise..
and J.J. and bill cosby will tell ya the same thing.. so will most non racist colored folk... peace..
In rap/hip hop culture, it is seen as more of a term of respect or brotherhood.
This.
quote
Originally posted by Tony Kania:
All words have a place and time. It is how you say it, not when you say it. Would I just go up to any African American and spout off ignorance? Hell no. But, in my group of friends, I can talk just as freely as them. It is accepted, and understood. If you don't understand this, then please NEVER use words that are degrading to other races. Period. Tony Kania
This.
quote
Originally posted by Red88FF:
Glad I don’t have any trigger words installed in my psych to put me at such a disadvantage. I think the whole thing is stupid.
And THIS!!!!!!!!!!
First off you can get your @$$ beat for just walking down certain streets around here. Saying that word in an inappropriate setting (not among friends and to strangers) can get you in the hospital or killed. I was born and raised here in Brooklyn, and have always enjoyed the diversity. I grew up with, and many of my old friends are black- but even most of them never referred to each other as that.
The only people who I know that I know who use that word on a regular basis (and know why they are using it) are with the rap/ hip hop culture.
I personally have never used it and never will. I've never understood the need for it, the same as I'll never understand the need for calling someone a cracker or a spick. I've been called white boy and I've been called nigga, it makes no difference to me so I could care less. I think despite the way the word is used today, its still degrading.
Ya Know Nitro...I used to enjoy the diversity, but the older I get, the less I want to have to do with it, and prefer to be alone away from the human race for the most part....and to a VERY large part, its because of all the drama and problems created by canadian P-C society...cant wear this material or color, cant say this or that word, cant make this or that movement, cant drive this way or that way...somebody might get "offended and not like it".....fruck 'em and feed 'em fish (oh, cant do that because some are offended by frucking and have vows to be a virgin for life, and cant feed them the fish because the veggie-types get bent out of shape....fruck'em and feed 'em fish anyway.....I just cant be bothered with it anymore. I always had an individualist/ independent bent, but as I age it has gotten more and more firmly entrenched.
My answer to most these days when they get bent out of shape by something stupid is "go find somebody who cares". The problem lies in the sense of entitlement and they think the world revolves around what THEY like...well, it doesnt.
sorry, double standard that is all... al sharpton and jackson,(among others) sould be going after the rappers/comics/etc that use that word... cause if you Amos and say a b ball girls teams players hair is frizzy, your a racist.. unless your colored... double standards, cause lets face it. if that word really TRUELY bothered then that much.. AND IT SHOULD. they should stop anyone that uses it.. no matter the context.... PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! it don't bother them at all. it's just a tool in their race card tool box.. nothing more nothing less... no ONE can prove otherwise..
and J.J. and bill cosby will tell ya the same thing.. so will most non racist colored folk... peace..
i drop the n bomb all the time, all biet im not going to goto south chicago and run around saying it. but if someone gets offended by my using it i ask them one question.
do you consider your self one? because one should not get offened by something they are not. its like calling a straight guy a fag, if hes not then its shouldnt bother him because its not refeering to him.
now i know there are always going to be tightwads that push some mindless point about any word that is used that can be precieved as offensive and to those people there is no middle ground so i just troll the hell out of them till they pop :P
Doni I have to ask do you use the word as a greeting to others and if not do your kids and did you say anything to them when you heard them use it as a greeting?
I know you are older than me, and that makes you older than dirt as well. Just a fact as far as I know you have said you are older than me before, I think, I can’t remember, my memory is shot.
I like the story about the older guy who beat the snot out of a younger one who used it as a greeting. I don’t think it should be used at all personally but as I said I am older than dirt and grew up in the 60’s as well.
Steve
------------------ Technology is great when it works, and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.
Really? Ignorance is strong in this one. What gives you special privilage to use it, while I cannot? (See previous post.) As the ONLY WHITE GUY IN THE ROOM, and surrounded by friends, we CAN say what we want. No one will tell us how to talk in a closed environment. Amongst friends, we are a single unit. I grew up in a predominately black neighborhood, and my friends were predominately black. Being a white guy, having black friends in Detroit has it's advantages. And having those black friends kept me alive. Literally.
I would NEVER dare to refer to anyone that is not accepting of the word as such. That would be ignorance on my behalf, and the consequences may be great. But to generalize that as a white man I cannot use a word that you can, then once again, we are far off.
Tony
You say, "I'm far off" huh? If you like to test what I've just stated you're welcomed to test your "rights" in using it by going to your nearby area where Blacks congregate and use the word. You can then come back and tell us the outcome.
[This message has been edited by madcurl (edited 05-23-2012).]
You say, "I'm far off" huh? If you like to test what I've just stated you're welcomed to test your "rights" in using it by going to your nearby area where Blacks congregate and use the word. You can then come back and tell us the outcome.
What we want to know though, is: WHY?
If Tony means no disrespect using the term, and blacks use it freely amongst themselves, WHY should he be worried about using it?
You say, "I'm far off" huh? If you like to test what I've just stated you're welcomed to test your "rights" in using it by going to your nearby area where Blacks congregate and use the word. You can then come back and tell us the outcome.
You so mistook everything I wrote. Please read my posts. If in the company of MY friends it is acceptable, then noone has a right to take that from us. And by friends, I am refering to African American friends. And yes, this white boy has numerous black friends. Numerous. Not two, but many.
Listen, I dare not ever refer to you in that context. That would make me a fool, and deserving of reprocussion from you. But if I were to call up "T" in Detroit, him and I will talk as friends. I am fully understanding of racist hatred. Never have I portrayed myself as a racist in life. Heck, I have been a victim.
Can you believe that a black guy can be racist, or is it only whitey? Honest question.
Please reread my post. I do not want a negative appeal, even from you.
If Tony means no disrespect using the term, and blacks use it freely amongst themselves, WHY should he be worried about using it?
I know plenty of white people that use that term the same way a black person would.. as slang in conversation. Calling each other the n word. Of course, they do not do it when black people are around. I wonder why?
It's about power. The "N" word was used as a derogatory term for blacks during a period when they had less power than white people. By taking the term and using it for themselves, they have claimed that power for themselves. It's not uncommon for a group of people to take a derogatory term used to describe them and use it themselves, in some ways as a badge of honor. It's a way of reclaiming the power they felt was taken from them by the people who originally coined the term.
However, at some point the word should adopt it's new meaning and leave the old meaning behind. I hear most black people who use the N word use it like white people use the word "dude." It no longer has the derogatory meaning in that context. The double standard comes in when a white person uses it in the same context and that's considered racist. They've gone full circle now because in that case the offended black person is manufacturing the offense where none was originally intended and they are in fact taking away their own power and respect.
Dude, if the "N" was use as a "derogatory term for blacks during a period when they had less power than white people"- then what word does racist White group now use? Here's one for you, when a White person shouts out to a Black person in anger what word does the White person use?
Doni I have to ask do you use the word as a greeting to others and if not do your kids and did you say anything to them when you heard them use it as a greeting?
Steve
I don't use it as a greeting and people that know me well don't greet me with the word either. My stepsons are Asian and I had to sit them down one day and explain the word to them from an historical context. As a result, they don't use it in my presence. It was never a word that was a part of my daughter's vocabulary.
Perhaps it IS a matter of age (I have to admit there IS dirt younger than me) or simply one of having the word used as it was during my formative years when my parents were extremely active in the civil rights movement in the South during the 50's and 60's. IMO, no person of color should use the "N” word simply because of the history behind it and the negative association that's attached. My personal account with the word "Nigga” has been disproportionately negative.
I was taught that the word was most often used to describe the image of what Black people were SUPPOSED to be and was never intended to be a word used to describe ourselves.
Personally, out of respect to my elders (living or deceased) I omitted the word from of my vocabulary and usually encourage others to do the same. Even my young rapper "nephews" (who usually refer to me as Uncle Doni or Ol' Skool ) refrain from using the word around me....as a matter of respect.
I am 1/8th Lakhota Sioux, but identify as a Caucasian due to my light complexion, blue eyes and blond hair.
I grew up in Jacksonville, FL, in a little town just West of there called Baldwin.
The town was divided by railroad tracks, and there was a wrong side and a right side to live on...
I lived on the "right" side, simply because that was where the house we remodeled was.
I grew up a shy, kind of small kid with thick glasses, and "different" due to my as-yet undiagnosed Aspergers. And I caught hell from every angle because of it. I was also bullied because of my last name, and beat up almost every single day on the way home from school. I walked two blocks.
90% of the bullies that picked on me were black. Not once did I ever use the N word, or any other racial epithet... I was too naive, not necessarily sheltered, and too frickin' scared to even think about using them.
I was called every name under the sun though... As I grew up and hung out at the beach more, I was called all sorts of names... Beach-N**ger Cracker Honkey Caveman Conky Devil Ditchpig...
I can go on and on... These are but a small sample of what I remember... All because I had the "wrong" skin color...
I find the use of "The N Word" distasteful, low-class and usually a sign of a low amount of respect both for the person saying it and the person who accepts it as a term of endearment.
It is just a word though... People can use any word they want in any way they choose.
I guess my point above... The word is only racist if spoken that way. It is all in the perception of the person who hears it.
Here's a good question...
It is considered racist if a white person uses a derogatory term against anyone not of Caucasian ethnicity.. Is it racist if a black person uses the term back toward anyone not of Black ethnicity? Who were the racists in my youth?
)
Would I just go up to any African American and spout off ignorance? Hell no. But, in my group of friends, I can talk just as freely as them. It is accepted, and understood. If you don't understand this, then please NEVER use words that are degrading to other races. Period.
What gives you special privilage to use it, while I cannot? (See previous post.) As the ONLY WHITE GUY IN THE ROOM, and surrounded by friends, we CAN say what we want. No one will tell us how to talk in a closed environment. Amongst friends, we are a single unit. I grew up in a predominately black neighborhood, and my friends were predominately black. Being a white guy, having black friends in Detroit has it's advantages. And having those black friends kept me alive. Literally. 
Knowing that you are of African decent, and one that doesn't exude racism, I am glad that you spoke those words. I would never, and could never think of using that word when refering to you. It IS wrong, even though we can be internet friends. If I said it to you, I would expect a smack down coming my way. Period.
Please read my posts. If in the company of MY friends it is acceptable, then noone has a right to take that from us. And by friends, I am refering to African American friends. And yes, this white boy has numerous black friends. Numerous. Not two, but many.
) refrain from using the word around me....as a matter of respect. 
