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Author
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Topic: I wonder if we will ever know the truth.
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84fiero123
Member Posts: 9799
From: farmington, maine usa
Registered: Oct 2004
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Toyota recalls 2.3M US vehicles to fix gas pedals
Email this Story
Jan 21, 5:22 PM (ET)
By DAN STRUMPF and STEPHEN MANNING
P { MARGIN: 12px 0px 0px }
NEW YORK (AP) - Toyota said Thursday it is recalling 2.3 million vehicles in the U.S. to fix accelerator pedals that can become stuck, the latest in a string of quality problems that have bedeviled the Japanese automaker.
The recall affects the 2009-2010 RAV4, the 2009-2010 Corolla, the 2009-2010 Matrix, the 2005-2010 Avalon, the 2007-2010 Camry, the 2010 Highlander, the 2007-2010 Tundra and the 2008-2010 Sequoia.
The latest move comes just months after Toyota Motor Corp. recalled 4.2 million vehicles over concerns that accelerator pedals could become lodged under floor mats, causing sudden acceleration. That problem was blamed for several crashes, including an accident involving a Lexus that accelerated to more than 120 mph before crashing in San Diego, killing four people.
But Toyota said this recall is due to problems with the actual gas pedal mechanism, causing the accelerator to become stuck regardless of whether the vehicle contains a floor mat. Toyota said in certain rare cases, the gas pedal mechanism wears down, causing the accelerator to become harder to press, slower to return or, in some cases, stuck.
In a letter to federal safety officials dated Thursday, Toyota said the problem appeared to be related to the potential build-up of condensation on sliding surfaces in the accelerator system that helps drivers push down or release the gas pedal.
Toyota spokesman Brian Lyons said the automaker does not yet have a solution to the latest problem but is working to develop one.
The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration said in a statement that the problem is "a serious safety issue and we are pleased Toyota is taking immediate action to address it."
The safety stumbles have dinged Toyota's reputation in the U.S. as a builder of dependable, high-quality cars. Last year's recall was the sixth-largest ever in the United States.
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http://apnews.excite.com/ar...00121/D9DCD7E00.html
They are so well built, I’ll take 2.
NOT
I wonder just what the problem really is, the computer maybe ??
Anyone else think there is more to this than they are telling us?
Steve ------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys. IP: Logged |
hklvette
Member Posts: 1438
From: Roanoke, VA
Registered: Nov 2007
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WTG Toyota. I'll stick with pre '09 GMs, thanks.IP: Logged |
FieroRumor
Member Posts: 29305
From: New York
Registered: Dec 2001
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I'm pretty paranoid, I don't believe most of what is said from 'official statements' and "press releases"
Some recalls are direct. Like a poorly designed baby stroller hinge. It's mechanism is open, and a kid can stick a finger in there, and unpleasentness happens as a result. The company issues a recall, and they send a kit which covers the hinge.
That toyota recall smells of BS.
In the end,
So much goes unresol..IP: Logged |
84fiero123
Member Posts: 9799
From: farmington, maine usa
Registered: Oct 2004
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Seeing they are both about the throttle I wonder, anyone here a Toyota tech?
Steve ------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys. IP: Logged |
86GT3.4DOHC
Member Posts: 9267
From: Marion Ohio
Registered: Apr 2004
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I dont see whats so mystifying, its pretty hard to find the location of a floor mat in a twisted pile of burnt wreckage. Driver says the accellerator stuck, someone looks at it and says, yea the floor mat could slide in there that makes sense, they make a faulty assumption. Now they are realizing that was not the root cause, and correcting it. IP: Logged |
htexans1
Member Posts: 5401
From: Clear Lake City/Houston TX
Registered: Sep 2001
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At least Toyota is attempting to find a solution for the problem, instead of hiding behind some lawyer.
Kudos to them for doing something about it.
Toyota has always had a good rep in my family. One of their trucks that we had has over 600,000 miles on it and I saw it last time I was at home, still running just fine for its current owner.  IP: Logged |
Boondawg
Member Posts: 15776
From: Section-8A Row-3 Seat-8
Registered: Jun 2003
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| | | quote | Originally posted by 84fiero123:
I wonder if we will ever know the truth.
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Maybe one of the greatest questions ever.
Just in an all around general kind of way.
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Back On Holiday
Member Posts: 5600
From: Downingtown, PA
Registered: Jul 2001
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| | | quote | Originally posted by 84fiero123:
causing sudden acceleration. That problem was blamed for several crashes, including an accident involving a Lexus that accelerated to more than 120 mph before crashing in San Diego, killing four people. |
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Put in Neutral....4 ways, brake....get over to a shoulder or somewhere safe... if all else fails turn the key off unless it was a pushbutton 
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jaskispyder
Member Posts: 5064
From: Sault Ste. Marie, MI
Registered: Jun 2002
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Sounds pretty normal for a recall, I don't see a problem. Of course, if it was an "american" car some here would say that it was the driver's fault, but since this is an "import" there must be a problem with the car.
Either way, there is a problem and Toyota will fix it. How many accidents have occurred vs the number of cars on the road? I can tell you that I have had my throttle cable stick on a few US cars I have owned. There was no recall, no investigation. How many Fieros burnt to the ground before GM decided to recall the engines? How many Explorers burned up before Ford recalled them for faulty ignitions?
J.IP: Logged |
84fiero123
Member Posts: 9799
From: farmington, maine usa
Registered: Oct 2004
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I have to ask those who have posted that this is a normal recall.
Are you Toyota owners?------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys. IP: Logged |
Pyrthian
Member Posts: 23452
From: Detroit, MI
Registered: Jul 2002
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| | | quote | Originally posted by jaskispyder:
Sounds pretty normal for a recall, I don't see a problem. Of course, if it was an "american" car some here would say that it was the driver's fault, but since this is an "import" there must be a problem with the car.
Either way, there is a problem and Toyota will fix it. How many accidents have occurred vs the number of cars on the road? I can tell you that I have had my throttle cable stick on a few US cars I have owned. There was no recall, no investigation. How many Fieros burnt to the ground before GM decided to recall the engines? How many Explorers burned up before Ford recalled them for faulty ignitions?
J. |
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yup. my Fiero at one time had a sticky throttle cable. single events of this are not that unusual.
but, when it largely affects a whole line of cars - thats scary stuff.
will we know the truth? what truth?
certain materials did not perform as expected in the real environment.
or is someone attempting to claim this was intentional?
some engineering spec'd a bushing which would swell?
a line worker jamming small chunks of gum under the pedals?
drivers who just didnt want to "go on" anymore?
I smell no BS - EXCEPT: why only US Toyotas?
this would imply a US manufacturing issue? or a problem with the US "version"?
or - other nations dont have as problematic liability system?
or just the volumes are so low in other nations, that it wont matter?
or are they just used to corporations killing their public?
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82-T/A [At Work]
Member Posts: 5118
From: Cooper City, Florida USA
Registered: Aug 2002
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| | | quote | Originally posted by htexans1:
At least Toyota is attempting to find a solution for the problem, instead of hiding behind some lawyer.
Kudos to them for doing something about it.
Toyota has always had a good rep in my family. One of their trucks that we had has over 600,000 miles on it and I saw it last time I was at home, still running just fine for its current owner. |
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Well, I've got to disagree with this. I've found that the big three have always been more up-front about recalls than any of the other manufacturers.
The Japanese in particular are unable to admit failure. If you remember WW2, the term surrender wasn't even in the Japanese vocabulary. Their culture HAS changed in 50 years, but not to the extent that they don't like to admit failure. To do so means much more to them than it does to us. Management is still all Japanese... and to create a recall is MUCH more significant than it is for the domestic brands.
Remember, cars like the Fiero were during a time when teh domestics pretty much got it all out on the table. We're used to it.
I'm too lazy to do a search right now, but there have been DOZENS of Japanese companies that have been forced through the judicial system to issue recalls. One example are the transmissions on Mitsubishi vehicles. The quote from the CEO as to WHY they didn't issue a recal before the trial was: "We were afraid it would hurt our business."
For Toyota to issue recalls... this is MAJOR... they've only recently started doing this.
Remember that MANY Toyota and Honda owners... when something breaks on their car, they automatically assume "factory fluke" and still give their cars high ratings on surveys. When the owner of a GM or Chrysler vehicle has something wrong, they say... "damn piece of crap American, I should have known..."
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Todd,
2008 Jeep Patriot Limited 4x2
2002 Ford Explorer Sport 2dr 4x2
2002 Ford Crown Victoria LX
1987 Pontiac Fiero SE / V6
1973 Volkswagen Type-2 Transporter IP: Logged |
rogergarrison
Member Posts: 29004
From: here
Registered: Apr 99
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| | | quote | Originally posted by Back On Holiday:
Put in Neutral....4 ways, brake....get over to a shoulder or somewhere safe... if all else fails turn the key off unless it was a pushbutton
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Sometimes something like that can be totally unexpected and takes you a min or 2 to realize whats going on. I had an old 60s Plymouth that had a Hemi with 2 four bbls. I tromped the gas on a residential street and broke the return springs. Know how fast a Hemi with 2 carbs accelerates wide open............I went a whole block before I thought to turn it off.
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SGS
Member Posts: 706
From: Sherwood Forest
Registered: Jan 2010
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| | | quote | Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:
Well, I've got to disagree with this. I've found that the big three have always been more up-front about recalls than any of the other manufacturers.
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I don't know if I'd say that. One the recalls the big 3 have done, they've been halfassed. Examples: GM did a recall on 3rd Gen Camaros/Firebirds. The parking brake cable could corrode and render the cable inoperative. They only recalled manual transmission cars, even though the autos suffered from the same problem. Logic? The parking brake was required to mark the manual, but not the auto. Ridiculous.
Ford also had a recall on some Tauruses due to faulty front coil springs. Apparently the coating on the springs didn't last as long as it should, the springs were corroding, and could possibly break. If the spring broke, the jagged end could contact the tire, cause a blowout, and loss of control at speed. So naturally, you think they'd replace the springs. Nope. The recall was going to install a little guard so that WHEN the spring broke, it would be unable to puncture the tire. Way to fix the problem, guys!
As far as this issue, I don't know what's going on. There was another manufacturer years ago that had this "unintended acceleration" problem, and after all kinds of research and bad publicity, I think they finally determined it was dumbass drivers causing the problem. There was nothing wrong with the cars.
As far as this particular issue, I haven't totally kept up with it, but I have heard that some people said that even turning the ignition off didn't stop the car....so something doesn't add up.
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cliffw
Member Posts: 18218
From: Kerrville, Texas, USA
Registered: Jun 2003
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| | | quote | Originally posted by 84fiero123:
I have to ask those who have posted that this is a normal recall.
Are you Toyota owners?
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I had not had a chance to post yet. I am a longtime Toyota owner. 77 Celica, 93 P/U, 99 4X4 P/U, 05 4X4 P/U, the wife's 90 Celica, and her 97 Rav4. You can call me a very satisfied customer. I don't feel like a traitor or even un-American. I helped deliver a wake up call to American Big Auto.
Normal recall ? What is that ? Many Fords caught on fire and some even blew up (the Pinto). My 05 Tacoma is eligible for recall service, actually has been, and I have no plans to get it done. Eh, I will one day, when it is convenient.
Recalls are good things. Design flaws have been uncovered. No one can predict everything. As mentioned, Toyota seems to be doing the right thing. Some companies (American Big Auto) let the bean counters prevent or stall recalls.
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Pyrthian
Member Posts: 23452
From: Detroit, MI
Registered: Jul 2002
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| | | quote | Originally posted by cliffw:
......Recalls are good things. Design flaws have been uncovered. No one can predict everything. ..... |
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like endless software updates?
but - very true - vehicles have become complicated
yes, I've owned the mighty '72 Pinto - and we all know now that the blowing up was actually not all that true. yes, conditions could be created that they would in fact blow up - but that is true for ALL cars. we do now know that the classic video of the exploding Pinto was faked, after many attempts to make one pop as described.
and, us as Fiero owners know all about this kind of BS - being we drive cars which catch fire, and have recalls for updates - like the PCV. wasnt really a danger - but - there was a recall, wasnt there? the rear trunk seal. not a hazard - and update to make the car more enjoyable, and last longer between repairs.IP: Logged |
86GT3.4DOHC
Member Posts: 9267
From: Marion Ohio
Registered: Apr 2004
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| | | quote | Originally posted by SGS:
I don't know if I'd say that. One the recalls the big 3 have done, they've been halfassed. Examples: GM did a recall on 3rd Gen Camaros/Firebirds. The parking brake cable could corrode and render the cable inoperative. They only recalled manual transmission cars, even though the autos suffered from the same problem. Logic? The parking brake was required to mark the manual, but not the auto. Ridiculous.
Ford also had a recall on some Tauruses due to faulty front coil springs. Apparently the coating on the springs didn't last as long as it should, the springs were corroding, and could possibly break. If the spring broke, the jagged end could contact the tire, cause a blowout, and loss of control at speed. So naturally, you think they'd replace the springs. Nope. The recall was going to install a little guard so that WHEN the spring broke, it would be unable to puncture the tire. Way to fix the problem, guys!
As far as this issue, I don't know what's going on. There was another manufacturer years ago that had this "unintended acceleration" problem, and after all kinds of research and bad publicity, I think they finally determined it was dumbass drivers causing the problem. There was nothing wrong with the cars.
As far as this particular issue, I haven't totally kept up with it, but I have heard that some people said that even turning the ignition off didn't stop the car....so something doesn't add up.
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Yea I had someone bring in a 'failed tire' on the front of a taurus. Strangely enough, they had the tire replaced somewhere else, the 'failed' tire was ripped to shreds only on the inside sidewall, and they just happened to have new struts and springs on the front. I love how indignant people can get even when you present them with the facts and they know damn well they are lying.
As far as the throttle cable sticking, Ive had it happen, took me an instant to realize that the gas pedal didnt come back up, slammed on it again, then immediately turned the key off. Granted most people are too stupid or preoccupied to think so quickly, but it doesnt take a genius to think to slam on the brakes, kick the car into neutral or park, though the parking pawl likely wont engage at speed, it will disengage drive, or turn the bleeding key off.
These arent deisels with mechanical fuel pumps either, they arent going to keep running with the key off, the ECM should shutdown and the fuel pump should turn off and the injectors should stop firing. On GMs anyway, the ICM feeds off the injector pulse, so the coils should stop firing when the injectors stop, not to mention when the power is cut to the ICM, but maybe at high RPM there could be some self ignition, but ... yea its not that plausable.
Anyway, even my most powerful cars wont do jack if you nail it and stomp on the brakes. If nothing else, I dont think there is a car in the world that would accellerate to 120MPH with the brakes applied.
And no, Ive never owned a Toyota in my life, not sure I ever would, but if you look at the scenario objectively, without bias, its plain to see there is no giant conspiracy, I wouldnt even think there appears to be any incompetance from Toyota, the events in question seem to be easily explained and the mistakes understandable. Now incompetance from the drivers, thats another story.
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maryjane
Member Posts: 32340
From: Cleveland Tex
Registered: Apr 2001
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| | | quote | Originally posted by cliffw:
I had not had a chance to post yet. I am a longtime Toyota owner. 77 Celica, 93 P/U, 99 4X4 P/U, 05 4X4 P/U, the wife's 90 Celica, and her 97 Rav4. You can call me a very satisfied customer. I don't feel like a traitor or even un-American. I helped deliver a wake up call to American Big Auto.
Normal recall ? What is that ? Many Fords caught on fire and some even blew up (the Pinto). My 05 Tacoma is eligible for recall service, actually has been, and I have no plans to get it done. Eh, I will one day, when it is convenient.
Recalls are good things. Design flaws have been uncovered. No one can predict everything. As mentioned, Toyota seems to be doing the right thing. Some companies (American Big Auto) let the bean counters prevent or stall recalls. |
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| | | quote | | I helped deliver corporate profits and manufactoring jobs to a foreign nation for 4 decades simply because I like foriegn vehicles and could care less of my effect on the USA |
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Interesting, that you always chose to leave that little tidbit out isn't it? If you are going to be honest--tell the whole truth and stop lying to yourself and quit trying to BS us--not a single soul has ever bought into this crap since you started with it.
The lengths people twist the truth in their minds to justify their actions never ceases to amaze me. You are on record in several different threads as saying:
"I did it to send a message"
Yeah right--please--Name ONE person on this board besides yourself that you think believes that line of hogwash. Just one.[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 01-22-2010).] IP: Logged |
84fiero123
Member Posts: 9799
From: farmington, maine usa
Registered: Oct 2004
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| | | quote | Originally posted by 86GT3.4DOHC:
Anyway, even my most powerful cars wont do jack if you nail it and stomp on the brakes. If nothing else, I dont think there is a car in the world that would accellerate to 120MPH with the brakes applied.
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I just watched on the news this morning a segment on these Toyotas problems.
And yes they do just keep accelerating under full brake.
So that is bull.
Roger and I have both had high performance cars in the past that did this and believe me you can not stop it with just the brake.
These new cars have the power the older high performance cars had in just a family sedan.
It was on The Early Show this morning even showed it happening.
Edit to add link
http://www.cbsnews.com/stor...TwoColUpperPromoArea
Steve
------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.[This message has been edited by 84fiero123 (edited 01-22-2010).] IP: Logged |
SGS
Member Posts: 706
From: Sherwood Forest
Registered: Jan 2010
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Once most factory brake systems heat up and fade, the brakes are worthless....So I can see that if you just punched both pedals, yeah, you could certainly get to 120 mph. Might take a little while, but it certainly possible.IP: Logged |
Boondawg
Member Posts: 15776
From: Section-8A Row-3 Seat-8
Registered: Jun 2003
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| | | quote | Originally posted by SGS:
Once most factory brake systems heat up and fade, the brakes are worthless....So I can see that if you just punched both pedals, yeah, you could certainly get to 120 mph. Might take a little while, but it certainly possible. |
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I have got the breaks so hot on the Fiero that comming down a very long, steep hill was a high-pressure full-extension 2-legger.
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dsnover
Member Posts: 764
From: Cherryville, PA USA
Registered: Apr 2006
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The whole Audi 'unintended acceleration' thing was ultimately a case of 'user error'. Seems that the pedals in the cars were indeed a little different, in that it was easier to heal-n-toe (something that is desirable in performance driving, but not so much for barely able to pass the driver exam people). Audi at some point redesigned the pedals for the North American market. Was it a 'real' case of a design problem? No, not in my opinion.
Overall, for the number of Toyota vehicles being sold, the actual number of incidents is very low, much like any other recall. Not to minimize the potential or actual life threatening situation that may occur, though, but there is no such thing as a perfect car. Any friction or bearing point is a potential point of failure, whether it be the gas pedal, or even on our Fiero's, the clutch pedal bending. GM has certainly had its share of serious recall issues, and certainly had its share of 'ignore mode' issues that should have been recalls. Like any other manufacturer.
My Volvo has an electronic throttle, and the unit is starting to act flakey. For the few years that Volvo used this particular mechanism, it is a near 100% failure item. They DID issue a recall to 'reprogram' the unit, which really only prevents the warning light from coming on until the ETC fails completely. They have issued an 'extended warrantee' to replace the ETM unit, for 10 years or 200k miles, but it is NOT a recall. They are banking on the fact that the last cars affected are almost 10 years old, and will be out of warrantee. Because my particular car has a 'Reconstructed' title (due to an engine fire at some point), they are refusing to honor the warrantee, BECAUSE IT IS NOT A RECALL. Gotta love that. When the unit fails, the car stops. The issue always manifests itself when you are accelerating, which means that you are likely to have the problem when you most need power. Obviously, I'm appealing the rejection. But the point is that NON of the manufacturers are on the up-n-up. Recalls are always a big deal, so they will attempt to avoid them however possible.IP: Logged |
SGS
Member Posts: 706
From: Sherwood Forest
Registered: Jan 2010
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dsnover, you're wasting your time with an appeal. Since you basically have a salvage title, the warranty is null and void.
As far as recalls, let's also remember that lots of problems that probably should be recalls aren't. These manufacturers weigh the cost of the recall vs. the cost of litigation and bad PR if they don't.
You can look at the TSBs, which outline known (and sometimes VERY common) problems....and they don't issue recalls to fix those.IP: Logged |
cliffw
Member Posts: 18218
From: Kerrville, Texas, USA
Registered: Jun 2003
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| | | quote | Originally posted by cliffw: maryjane speaking for cliffw
I helped deliver corporate profits and manufactoring jobs to a foreign nation for 4 decades simply because I like foriegn vehicles and could care less of my effect on the USA |
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| | | quote | Originally posted by maryjane:
Interesting, that you always chose to leave that little tidbit out isn't it? If you are going to be honest--tell the whole truth and stop lying to yourself and quit trying to BS us--not a single soul has ever bought into this crap since you started with it.
The lengths people twist the truth in their minds to justify their actions never ceases to amaze me. You are on record in several different threads as saying:
"I did it to send a message"
Yeah right--please--Name ONE person on this board besides yourself that you think believes that line of hogwash. Just one.
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I know I piss you off here Don. Not something that I am proud of. I left no tidbit out much less the words you put in my mouth. You want the whole truth ? I give to the charities of my choice. An American business should not need charity. I am beholden to my stockholder. Me.
My tools are Craftsman, Proto, Rigid, Snap On, DuoFast (nail gun), Grayco (airless paint sprayer), McCullough and Echo (chain saws, Echo being Canadian), DeWalt, Makita, I could go on. I have a Miller welder with a Subaru motor,  . I buy what I like. It's my money. Usually, American fits the bill and I will choose American.
I never said that I bought Toyota to send a message. I said I helped send a message. I don't need to twist the truth and I don't need to justify. I don't lie to myself either. You have told me "rationalize" before. Everybody rationalizes. Those that are right and those that are wrong.
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SGS
Member Posts: 706
From: Sherwood Forest
Registered: Jan 2010
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I won't buy American just to be buying American. I want value for my money. For a long time, The Big 3 made shitty cars. It's getting better, but they are beholden to the UAW, and I don't think they'll ever be able to compete. I wish GM had gone out of business and dealt the UAW a big blow. GM didn't get a bailout....the UAW got a bailout. Then when the chips fell, the UAW got GM! Well, them and the government. It will be interesting to see how the UAW will work with this. Now that they'll be screwing themselves instead of someone else, I'd like to see how they will handle that.[This message has been edited by SGS (edited 01-22-2010).] IP: Logged |
maryjane
Member Posts: 32340
From: Cleveland Tex
Registered: Apr 2001
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| | | quote | Originally posted by cliffw:
I know I piss you off here Don. Not something that I am proud of. I left no tidbit out much less the words you put in my mouth. You want the whole truth ? I give to the charities of my choice. An American business should not need charity. I am beholden to my stockholder. Me.
My tools are Craftsman, Proto, Rigid, Snap On, DuoFast (nail gun), Grayco (airless paint sprayer), McCullough and Echo (chain saws, Echo being Canadian), DeWalt, Makita, I could go on. I have a Miller welder with a Subaru motor, . I buy what I like. It's my money. Usually, American fits the bill and I will choose American.
I never said that I bought Toyota to send a message. I said I helped send a message. I don't need to twist the truth and I don't need to justify. I don't lie to myself either. You have told me "rationalize" before. Everybody rationalizes. Those that are right and those that are wrong. |
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Then why do you ALWAYS leave that out unless called on it?
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84fiero123
Member Posts: 9799
From: farmington, maine usa
Registered: Oct 2004
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Number of driver in America?
Answer
In 2003 there were 196,165,667 licensed drivers in the U.S.
Not everyone is a good driver.
Not everyone is an experienced driver.
Not everyone is prepared for this to happen.
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Number_of_drivers_in_US
Steve
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Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.[This message has been edited by 84fiero123 (edited 01-22-2010).] IP: Logged |
Pyrthian
Member Posts: 23452
From: Detroit, MI
Registered: Jul 2002
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| | | quote | Originally posted by SGS:
I won't buy American just to be buying American. I want value for my money. For a long time, The Big 3 made shitty cars. It's getting better, but they are beholden to the UAW, and I don't think they'll ever be able to compete. I wish GM had gone out of business and dealt the UAW a big blow. GM didn't get a bailout....the UAW got a bailout. Then when the chips fell, the UAW got GM! Well, them and the government. It will be interesting to see how the UAW will work with this. Now that they'll be screwing themselves instead of someone else, I'd like to see how they will handle that.
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well, we've seen that union leaders are perfectly fine with screwing the workers too.....IP: Logged |
dsnover
Member Posts: 764
From: Cherryville, PA USA
Registered: Apr 2006
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| | | quote | Originally posted by SGS:
dsnover, you're wasting your time with an appeal. Since you basically have a salvage title, the warranty is null and void.
As far as recalls, let's also remember that lots of problems that probably should be recalls aren't. These manufacturers weigh the cost of the recall vs. the cost of litigation and bad PR if they don't.
You can look at the TSBs, which outline known (and sometimes VERY common) problems....and they don't issue recalls to fix those. |
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Yes, they explained that since it is an 'R' title, there is no warrantee, but also explained that if it was a recall, that they would do it. Since they have already issued a recall on the programming of it, I figure it's worth a shot. Doesn't cost me anything to at least try. Anyway, should they refuse, there's a company that makes a non-contact replacement, which is lifetime warranted. It's cheaper than having the Volvo dealer replace the ETM...not to mention that they dealer uses the same faulty designed module. The NHTSA has been investigating the issue, but since Volvo updated the part for all newer cars, I don't see it getting much attention. But again, it doesn't cost anything to make some noise higher up in the food chain...
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KurtAKX
Member Posts: 2848
From: Allendale, Michigan
Registered: Feb 2002
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I wanna know when the hell they're going to include the 2009 Vibe!!!!!
As most of you know, the Vibe is a Toyota Matrix.
We have one, and I've had the gas pedal stick down because of the floor mat.
NOT ONE LETTER SO FAR!!!!IP: Logged |
FrugalFiero
Member Posts: 2616
From: Where cars n trucks used to be made in Michigan
Registered: Nov 2003
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84fiero123,
Do you still have that Caravan you bought with the hole in the case of the tranny?
Did you get very far trying to get Chrysler to fix it?
From the post:
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum6/HTML/068353.html
| | | quote | Originally posted by 84fiero123:
Well I finally pulled the trany out of that Caravans I bought a while ago and was surprised to find a hole in the bell housing in front of the transfer case part of the trany itself.
Now after some searching on the net I have found this is a common problem.
The DIFFERENTIAL PIN POPPED OUT going threw the bell housing and allowing all the trany fluid to run right out of the trany.
So after searching the net about this problem I found this,
[edit] A604 to 41TE
The most common problems with A604 transmissions are poor shifting quality and sudden locks into second gear ("limp-home" mode), even during highway driving. Nine design changes were made in an attempt to fix clutch failure, and four were directed to "shift busyness", or excessive shifting on hills.
After much pressure from the Center for Auto Safety, Consumer Reports and others, Chrysler promised to waive the $100 deductible in the warranty, provide loaners, and buy back any cars with Ultradrives that could not be fixed. Chrysler ran an unprecedented campaign to contact all owners of cars with Ultradrives to find and fix problems...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultradrive
The important part is,
After much pressure from the Center for Auto Safety, Consumer Reports and others, Chrysler promised to waive the $100 deductible in the warranty, provide loaners, and buy back any cars with Ultradrives that could not be fixed. Chrysler ran an unprecedented campaign to contact all owners of cars with Ultradrives to find and fix problems...
Does anyone know anything about this, or if there is any kind of program, recall,
(I checked that already, nothing listed on the Office of Defects site)
Or anything about these peaces of crap tranies?
I have never seen this happen to a trany, other than this one.
But like I said it is a common thing with these guys.
Any help would be appreciated.
Steve
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84fiero123
Member Posts: 9799
From: farmington, maine usa
Registered: Oct 2004
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With all the other things going on lately we have not even pursued it. Maybe in the spring we will try again.
This was something that was slipped under the floor mat so to speak. The original owners were even given crap about it.
We have a friend who had 4 tranies put in before the one she had was 1 year old.
Thing was when I looked at the recall list it said nothing about it.
Only when I went into the next thing, I forget what it was there were pages upon pages of these things going bad. If i had only read that i would never have bought it.
Steve ------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys. IP: Logged |
86GT3.4DOHC
Member Posts: 9267
From: Marion Ohio
Registered: Apr 2004
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| | | quote | Originally posted by SGS:
Once most factory brake systems heat up and fade, the brakes are worthless....So I can see that if you just punched both pedals, yeah, you could certainly get to 120 mph. Might take a little while, but it certainly possible. |
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Touche'. I was not thinking of that, I was thinking of my turbo 3.4 DOHC, but I was going from like 10MPH to load the turbo. Starting at 60MPH, then accellerating to 80 before hitting the brakes, yea they are going to fade big time until they just quit doing anything.
Still if you cant think to turn the key off, or shift out of drive, you probably dont have the intellegence needed to safely and properly operate a motor vehicle.
BTW, late 90's caravan's \ T&Cs are NOTORIOUS for dead trannies, you cant even find them in the junk yards because working ones are so rare.
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SGS
Member Posts: 706
From: Sherwood Forest
Registered: Jan 2010
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| | | quote | Originally posted by 86GT3.4DOHC:
Still if you cant think to turn the key off, or shift out of drive, you probably dont have the intellegence needed to safely and properly operate a motor vehicle.
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AGREED!!!IP: Logged |
82-T/A [At Work]
Member Posts: 5118
From: Cooper City, Florida USA
Registered: Aug 2002
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| | | quote | Originally posted by SGS:
I don't know if I'd say that. One the recalls the big 3 have done, they've been halfassed. Examples: GM did a recall on 3rd Gen Camaros/Firebirds. The parking brake cable could corrode and render the cable inoperative. They only recalled manual transmission cars, even though the autos suffered from the same problem. Logic? The parking brake was required to mark the manual, but not the auto. Ridiculous.
Ford also had a recall on some Tauruses due to faulty front coil springs. Apparently the coating on the springs didn't last as long as it should, the springs were corroding, and could possibly break. If the spring broke, the jagged end could contact the tire, cause a blowout, and loss of control at speed. So naturally, you think they'd replace the springs. Nope. The recall was going to install a little guard so that WHEN the spring broke, it would be unable to puncture the tire. Way to fix the problem, guys!
As far as this issue, I don't know what's going on. There was another manufacturer years ago that had this "unintended acceleration" problem, and after all kinds of research and bad publicity, I think they finally determined it was dumbass drivers causing the problem. There was nothing wrong with the cars.
As far as this particular issue, I haven't totally kept up with it, but I have heard that some people said that even turning the ignition off didn't stop the car....so something doesn't add up.
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Maybe... the manufacturer you're thinking of is Audi... that was during the late 80s.
That said, there was very recently a person who owned a Lexus LX-460 that had the gas pedal stuck and speed up over 120mph before it flipped. They called 911 and were on the phone the entire time (it was unrelated to the floor mat).
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Todd,
2008 Jeep Patriot Limited 4x2
2002 Ford Explorer Sport 2dr 4x2
2002 Ford Crown Victoria LX
1987 Pontiac Fiero SE / V6
1973 Volkswagen Type-2 Transporter IP: Logged |
TK
Member Posts: 5746
From: Gone
Registered: Aug 2002
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| | | quote | Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:
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Remember that MANY Toyota and Honda owners... when something breaks on their car, they automatically assume "factory fluke" and still give their cars high ratings on surveys. When the owner of a GM or Chrysler vehicle has something wrong, they say... "damn piece of crap American, I should have known..."
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What's the old joke about German cars? If an American car breaks, it's because it's crap. If a German car breaks, it's because it was abused. They don't just "break".IP: Logged |
jaskispyder
Member Posts: 5064
From: Sault Ste. Marie, MI
Registered: Jun 2002
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| | | quote | Originally posted by KurtAKX:
I wanna know when the hell they're going to include the 2009 Vibe!!!!!
As most of you know, the Vibe is a Toyota Matrix.
We have one, and I've had the gas pedal stick down because of the floor mat.
NOT ONE LETTER SO FAR!!!! |
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That would be GM..... the OLD GM and they probably don't have to issue recalls for vehicles the OLD GM produced 
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86GT3.4DOHC
Member Posts: 9267
From: Marion Ohio
Registered: Apr 2004
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| | | quote | Originally posted by 86GT3.4DOHC:
Touche'. I was not thinking of that, I was thinking of my turbo 3.4 DOHC, but I was going from like 10MPH to load the turbo. Starting at 60MPH, then accellerating to 80 before hitting the brakes, yea they are going to fade big time until they just quit doing anything.
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Interesting note, I just tried this in my 08 G37, the ECM actually signifigantly reduces engine power when you cross about %10 braking force, like I almost slammed my chin on the steering wheel. I instinctively gave it more gas like, wait this cant be working this well, then gave myself whiplash when I let off the brake. Twas fun.
Interesting result, but im guessing it has to do with the ETC and VSC and TCS, im sure if it was common place this Toyota issue wouldnt have come up. Not that this is a solution or anything, its probably to prevent drivetrain abuse. Its a 6spd stick BTW.
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pokeyfiero
Member Posts: 10441
From: The other Brentwood,Ca,U.S.A
Registered: Dec 2003
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| | | quote | Originally posted by 86GT3.4DOHC:
Still if you cant think to turn the key off, or shift out of drive, you probably dont have the intellegence needed to safely and properly operate a motor vehicle.
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Truly the end of the arguement right there.
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weaselbeak
Member Posts: 716
From: se iowa
Registered: Jun 2008
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| | | quote | Originally posted by htexans1:
At least Toyota is attempting to find a solution for the problem, instead of hiding behind some lawyer.
Kudos to them for doing something about it.
Toyota has always had a good rep in my family. One of their trucks that we had has over 600,000 miles on it and I saw it last time I was at home, still running just fine for its current owner. |
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Total BS. Toyota has dragged there feet in denial forever on this. The problem is not new.
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