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Author
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Topic: I wonder if we will ever know the truth.
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cliffw
Member Posts: 17265
From: Kerrville, Texas, USA
Registered: Jun 2003
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| | | quote | Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:
You are JUST like a Democrat, Cliff...
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Did I touch a nerve ? I certainly hope so.
I'll get back to you. I had KP duty and the wife might be home any minute.
IP: Logged |
84fiero123
Member Posts: 8346
From: farmington, maine usa
Registered: Oct 2004
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| | | quote | Originally posted by cliffw:
Ford, it seems, has been caught up in the recall media frenzy. |
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I wonder if that could be because Toyota tried to blame a manufacturer of a part for an electronic glitch, programming fault. And that ford also used that same manufacturer.
Steve ------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys. IP: Logged |
cliffw
Member Posts: 17265
From: Kerrville, Texas, USA
Registered: Jun 2003
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| | | quote | Originally posted by 84fiero123:
I wonder if that could be because Toyota tried to blame a manufacturer of a part for an electronic glitch, programming fault. And that ford also used that same manufacturer.
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I don't wonder about the small zhit. Not my problem. It is what is is. It's being corrected. Same thing, different day, different company.
IP: Logged |
84fiero123
Member Posts: 8346
From: farmington, maine usa
Registered: Oct 2004
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Not the same thing Cliff.
Toyota tried to shift the blame from themselves to a minor parts manufacturer so that they looked better.
When the real problem has been proven to be the bad programming done in Japan by the manufacturer.
Steve
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Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys. IP: Logged |
82-T/A [At Work]
Member Posts: 4032
From: Cooper City, Florida USA
Registered: Aug 2002
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| | | quote | Originally posted by cliffw:
Did I touch a nerve ? I certainly hope so.
I'll get back to you. I had KP duty and the wife might be home any minute. |
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So, you HOPE that you've upset me? Why would you wish ill will on me? Is that because you're upset that I'm bashing Toyota?
No, you haven't touched a nerve. I dislike socialism and minivans, so unless you want to talk about that stuff, it's not really possible to touch one of my nerves.
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Todd,
2008 Jeep Patriot Limited 4x2
2002 Ford Explorer Sport 2dr 4x2
2002 Ford Crown Victoria LX
1987 Pontiac Fiero SE / V6
1973 Volkswagen Type-2 Transporter IP: Logged |
cliffw
Member Posts: 17265
From: Kerrville, Texas, USA
Registered: Jun 2003
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| | | quote | Originally posted by 84fiero123:
Toyota tried to shift the blame from themselves to a minor parts manufacturer so that they looked better.
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Did they ? Or, did facts come out which were true ? You pasted all the Toyota bashing linky threads. You must of missed the one where Toyota passed the buck.
I was the one to notice that it was a minor parts manufacturer. An American minor parts manufacturer.
Key the word minor.
It looks like that minor parts manufacturer is the one rushing to get the correction in.
IP: Logged |
cliffw
Member Posts: 17265
From: Kerrville, Texas, USA
Registered: Jun 2003
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| | | quote | Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:
So, you HOPE that you've upset me? Why would you wish ill will on me? Is that because you're upset that I'm bashing Toyota?
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Ah. You admit it.
I wish no ill will on you. I don't get upset. Your a stand up guy in my book. Your allowed to be misguided just like I am. Calling me a Democrat, well ... that is not even kinda presumptive. You know me. I did not say I hoped that I upset you. I just hoped that I touched a nerve.
IP: Logged |
84fiero123
Member Posts: 8346
From: farmington, maine usa
Registered: Oct 2004
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| | | quote | Originally posted by cliffw:
Did they ? Or, did facts come out which were true ? You pasted all the Toyota bashing linky threads. You must of missed the one where Toyota passed the buck.
I was the one to notice that it was a minor parts manufacturer. An American minor parts manufacturer.
Key the word minor.
It looks like that minor parts manufacturer is the one rushing to get the correction in.
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No Cliff check page 2
| | | quote | Originally posted by 84fiero123:
Just found this news bite
No easy answer to why Toyota accelerators stick
Email this Story
Jan 27, 6:02 PM (ET)
By SETH BORENSTEIN and KEN THOMAS
P { MARGIN: 12px 0px 0px }
WASHINGTON (AP) - For a century, the basic idea behind pressing the accelerator on a car has been pretty straightforward. What's going wrong with some Toyotas isn't simple.
Experts say the sudden acceleration problem that has put the brakes on Toyota sales and production is likely not a single problem but an alignment of complicated interconnected conditions.
Nothing illustrates that more than the contradictory statements from the two companies involved. Toyota Motor Corp. is telling the government that it thinks a friction problem in its accelerator pedal mechanisms may make the pedal "harder to depress, slower to return, or, in the worst case, mechanically stuck in a partially depressed position."
CTS Corp., the Elkhart, Ind., supplier that makes the devices for Toyota, said in a statement Wednesday that the friction problem accounts for fewer than a dozen cases of stuck accelerators, "and in no instance did the accelerator actually become stuck in a partially depressed condition."
If there were a simple answer, a one-thing gone wrong glitch with a fix, it's unlikely Toyota would be in the mess it's now in.
When Toyota recalled 4.2 million vehicles last fall, it said it was because floor mats were interfering with the pedals. That may have been an issue, but now the company is saying it's latest recall of 2.3 million vehicles is linked to worn pedal mechanisms that increase friction in certain conditions and cause the accelerator to stick sometimes.
Outside safety experts say possible causes also include the complicated electronic sensors that relay the message from the gas pedal to the engine, the design and location of the sensor system, a lack of a fail-safe override mechanism, and even a certain media-fed awareness that puts more people on the lookout for the problem.
Academic researchers say the rarity of sudden acceleration problems is a telling sign to the difficulty of determining what's going wrong.
"This is very unusual and happens on a very rare circumstance, and a whole bunch of things have to happen simultaneously," said Raj Rajkumar, head of Carnegie Mellon University's automotive research lab. It's like lots of unlikely lottery hits happening at the same time, but with millions of Toyotas, they do happen.
Sean Kane, president of Safety Research and Strategies Inc., a Massachusetts-based car safety investigation and advocacy group, said he's certain there is no single cause. He said he's logged thousands of stuck gas pedal complaints.
"We are convinced that this a multifaceted problem," Kane said. "You've got a multitude of problems that are coming to the surface that result in one thing: unintended acceleration."
How an accelerator pedal is supposed to operate is anything but complicated. Stepping on the pedal starts a chain of events to open the throttle, sending more air into the engine. The car goes faster. Stop pressing on the gas, the engine's speed decreases and the car slows down.
At first, the pedal was directly linked to the throttle, or hydraulics did the job. Then more than a decade ago, electronics started handling the relay. It's part of an overall switch to computer controls seen throughout the transportation industry.
Most throttle systems on modern vehicles are electronic. Typically, the driver steps on the accelerator and gets resistance back from a spring. The movement activates components in the pedal assembly that send an electronic signal to the engine-control computer, and a signal from the computer feeds more fuel to the engine.
In documents provided to the government, Toyota indicated the mechanical problem that causes the pedal to stick occurs when water condenses inside the system when the heater is on. The company also thought a material used to make the pedal system was a problem, so it switched to a different material, but the problem persisted.
Toyota spokesman Mike Michels said Wednesday that the company wouldn't discuss the mechanics of the pedal and the possible causes of the problem "because the engineering investigation is ongoing."
Craig Hoff, a professor of mechanical engineering at Kettering University in Flint, Mich., said the pedal assemblies typically contain a Teflon bearing that would not be affected by temperature, so it's unlikely the problem is connected to weather conditions. He has not specifically studied the Toyota case but said the problem could be linked to the mechanical spring that pushes back when someone hits the accelerator.
"If I was going to sit here and guess, I'd start thinking about something is binding - either there's friction that's too high somewhere or another issue is that spring is not strong enough to push back," said Hoff, who has worked on accelerator systems.
The problem could also be connected to the electronics relay system - something Toyota highlighted in a video more than a dozen years ago touting its "electronic throttle control system with intelligence."
A few years ago, the company sent out a technical bulletin saying some cars accelerate on their own between 38 and 42 mph, and it reprogrammed the electronics with new software codes, Kane said.
John Heywood, director of the Sloan Automotive Lab at MIT, said because Toyota is the only automaker having this problem, it could be something specific to its design, such as the location and integration of the electronics relay sensor.
"These are very complex systems," Rajkumar said. "One ought to expect that there will be glitches like these."
CTS, which relies on Toyota for 3 percent of its annual sales, supplies similar parts for Honda Motor Co., Nissan Motor Co. and Mitsubishi Motors Corp.
But auto suppliers typically design parts based on the specifications of the individual automaker, and a part's installation and operation can vary based on the vehicle. The three other automakers said they had received no complaints about their accelerator pedals.
A key problem appears to be the absence of a mechanism that overrides the accelerator if the gas and brake pedals are pressed at the same time, Kane said. In the recall last year involving floor mats, Toyota told the government it would retrofit some vehicles with that feature.
Such a mechanism, called a "brake-to-idle algorithm," is an important fail-safe, Kane said. He said some other automakers already have them, and Rajkumar said more will install them in the future.
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Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys. IP: Logged |
84fiero123
Member Posts: 8346
From: farmington, maine usa
Registered: Oct 2004
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Japanese media criticize Toyota chief for response
Email this Story
Feb 6, 7:32 AM (ET)
By MARI YAMAGUCHI
(AP) Graphic shows yearly sales figures of eight recalled Toyota vehicle models
Full Image
TOKYO (AP) - Japanese media sharply criticized Toyota's president Saturday for what they called a delayed and unconvincing explanation for the massive car recall that has sullied the world's biggest automaker, a Japanese corporate icon.
Akio Toyoda, the founder's grandson appointed to lead Toyota Motor Corp. last June, emerged late Friday to apologize and address criticism that the company mishandled a crisis over sticking gas pedals. But he stopped short of ordering a recall for Toyota's iconic Prius hybrid over separate braking problems.
Toyoda's appearance before reporters at a company office in the central Japanese city of Nagoya made front pages of the country's leading newspapers - but won no praise.
"Words are not enough," the top Nikkei business daily commented in an editorial. "The company's crisis management ability is being subjected to severe scrutiny."
"Utterly too late," the nationwide Asahi newspaper said of Toyota's delayed reaction since the crisis arose Jan. 21 with a global recall of millions of vehicles. "The entire world is watching how Toyota can humbly learn from its series of recent failures and make safe cars."
At his first news conference since the recall of 4.5 million cars, Toyoda promised to beef up quality control and said he would head a special committee to review quality checks, go over consumer complaints and listen to outside experts to develop a fix.
Toyota's failure to stem its widening safety crisis has stunned American consumers and experts who had come to expect only streamlined efficiency from a company at the pinnacle of the global auto industry.
"Toyota needs to be more assertive in terms of providing consumers comfort that the immediate problem is being addressed ... and that it can deal with these crises," said Sherman Abe, a business professor at Hitotsubashi University in Tokyo.
It took prodding from the U.S. government for Toyota to recall the vehicles, about half of them in North America, for gas pedals that can stick and cause sudden acceleration.
Asked if he should have acted more quickly, Toyoda replied in hesitant English: "I will do my best."
The company name is spelled and pronounced differently from the founding family name because Toyota was considered to have a luckier number of brush strokes when written in Japanese.
Toyoda is the second successive Toyota president to apologize for car defects. The first, Katsuaki Watanabe, shocked a news conference in 2006, bowing low to the group before promising to improve quality.
Toyoda bowed as he greeted reporters, but not in apology. He told the hastily called news conference that the company had not decided what to do about problems in the braking system of the Prius gas-electric hybrid. The high-mileage, low-pollution car is a leader in its field and a symbol of Toyota technology.
Toyoda and Shinichi Sasaki, who oversees quality control, offered no new explanations for the braking problem.
Prius drivers, mostly in the U.S. but some in Japan, have complained of a short delay before the brakes kick in - a flaw Toyota says can be fixed with a software programming change. The lag occurs as the car is switching between brakes for the gas engine and the electric motor - a process that is key to the hybrid's increased mileage.
Japan's transport ministry has received nearly 80 complaints, including reports of five accidents involving no injuries, from Prius drivers in the past four days regarding possible brake problems, the Tokyo Shimbun newspaper reported Saturday, without citing sources. The ministry, which had received 14 complaints by the end of January, will urge Toyota to investigate the accidents, the newspaper said.
Officials at the ministry and with Toyota could not be reached for comment Saturday.
Toyota has acknowledged receiving dozens of complaints about the Prius in Japan.
Toyota spokesman Mike Michels said Friday that the company continues to weigh options on how to handle repairs of the problem, and it is communicating with the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration in the U.S.
Among options are a campaign to notify Toyota owners to bring their cars in for repairs, or a full-fledged safety recall. Michels said he could not say when Toyota would make a decision.
The automaker said it fixed the programming glitch in Prius models that went on sale since last month, but it has done nothing on 270,000 Prius cars sold last year in Japan and the U.S.
The lack of action has raised questions about whether there is a bigger problem, but Sasaki denied any cover-up.
There is high-level government concern in Japan about Toyota's quality fiasco. Cabinet ministers have expressed alarm and urged the company to move more quickly.
Prime Minister Yukio Hatoyama earlier this month ordered Industry and Trade Minister Masayuki Naoshima to convey the message. Consumer affairs minister Mizuho Fukushima also called Toyota's reaction "too slow." Transport Minister Seiji Maehara, who oversees auto regulation, has urged Toyota to consider a recall for the Prius brake problem.
No sense of crisis was apparent in Japan outside of media and government circles, however. The Toyota story was published on Saturday's front pages, but most national newspapers gave more prominence to news such as the government's planned dispatch of troops to Haiti, an ongoing political funds scandal, the government's budget deficit and global warming.
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yup even the Japs themselves think toyota screwed up
steve ------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys. IP: Logged |
cliffw
Member Posts: 17265
From: Kerrville, Texas, USA
Registered: Jun 2003
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| | | quote | Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:
Honestly, your argument is turning into some weird Socratic tangent. Whatever your argument actually is, it's getting lost to me. What EXACTLY is it that you're arguing?
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Socratic tangent. Heh, I'll go with that. I have not been arguing anything. Just as the Socratic method does not.
I have not denied that Toyota has problems nor have I made any excuses for them,  . Even after listening to all the below drivel for fifteen days.
| | | quote | Originally posted by 84fiero123: 01-21-2010 06:49 PM
Anyone else think there is more to this than they are telling us?
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| | | quote | Originally posted by 84fiero123: 01-27-2010 08:57 AM
Anyone think there is something rotten in Japan?
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| | | quote | Originally posted by 84fiero123: 01-27-2010 10:00 AM
If they don’t know what created this problem then WTF I would not want to buy one of these or any other vehicle with this problem.
Like I said we may never know the truth.
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| | | quote | Originally posted by 84fiero123: 01-27-2010 08:18 PM
GM Offers Incentives To Toyota Buyers Looking To Avoid A Fiery Death
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| | | quote | Originally posted by 84fiero123: 01-27-2010 08:23 PM
Toyota Neglects To Mention Sale Of Vehicles Halted Because Feds Forced Them
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| | | quote | Originally posted by 84fiero123: 01-27-2010 10:55 PM
Just found this news bite
No easy answer to why Toyota accelerators stick
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| | | quote | Originally posted by 84fiero123: 01-28-2010 08:33 AM
Well so much for it just being American cars.
Toyota extends vehicle recall to China.
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| | | quote | Originally posted by 84fiero123: 01-28-2010 08:34 AM
Just what would it take?
You getting one of those cars and having it take off on you?
No disrespect intended but really what would it take?
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In answer to a post saying someone would never again drive a GM car.
| | | quote | Originally posted by 84fiero123: 01-28-2010 08:38 AM
Just how long do they have to make something before it is safe.
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Ask GM their bean counting method.
| | | quote | Originally posted by 84fiero123: 01-28-2010 03:02 P
Just trying to understand how they trying to shift the blame to anyone.
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| | | quote | Originally posted by 84fiero123: 01-29-2010 12:00 PM
I wonder if we will ever know the truth.
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| | | quote | Originally posted by 84fiero123: 01-29-2010 03:33 PM
Toyota sends gas pedals to factories
Sending a part from the part maker to the factory, then the parts depot is their normal route?
Should be just the opposite.
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| | | quote | Originally posted by 84fiero123:01-29-2010 06:46 PM
For Toyota drivers, confusion and growing anger
Sounds like some real satisfied customers.
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| | | quote | Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: 01-29-2010 07:12 PM
Steve...
I am trying DESPERATELY... desperately... to contain myself. I'm trying to find the strength to not act in such a way that celebrates the failure and misfortune of someone else.
Before I go on with my diatribe... I'd just like to mention that it's horrible that this has happened and that people have lost their lives. In addition, I hope this does NOT affect any jobs at factories or otherwise here in America (dealerships, etc...)
Now... I'd like to point out a few things though as positives to this debacle...
1 - For years, there has always been an arrogance that emminates from Toyota owners and dealerships. Despite the fact that many of their cars have been of sub-par quality. Take for example... the Toyota Corolla. Through the majority of the 90s, the Corolla was absolutely a piece of garbage. ... This arrogance from these owners that they were driving "superior" vehicles was drastically misplaced. .... Only recently has Consumer Reports (which is "powered" by consumer reviews) begun to reflect the reality which is Toyota. Toyota had excellent marketing in the 80s. This fueled a misplaced opinion that the vehicles were superior.
3 - ....Toyota will be the guinea pig of the media for years to come and will give the big three some time repair from the damage they caused.
4 - Let me remind everyone that after the Japanese signed their unconditional surrender on the deck of the Mighty Mo... they said if they couldn't beat us militarily... they would beat us economically. Bring it on...
5 - Oh yeah... if anyone is upset with my comments... well, I'm sorry to say but you're just going to have to live with the fact that I don't give a damn. 
It's good to know we agree on some things, Steve...
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| | | quote | Originally posted by 84fiero123: 01-30-2010 07:50 AM
Japan not as worried about US Toyota recalls
In Japan, the automaker's home market, where there have been no such recalls, the reaction is - also understandably - muted.
Some of the same Toyota Motor Corp. models recalled in the U.S., Europe and China are on Japanese roads. But they use a different parts supplier than CTS Corp., the American parts-maker which has been rushing to fix the faulty parts behind the massive recalls.
Kind of unusual that they aren’t worried isn’t it?
Kind of like they don’t care about the rest of the world if you ask me.
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Yeah, right. They are not worried, . No, they don't care about if they ever sell another vehicle outside of Japan, .
| | | quote | Originally posted by 84fiero123: 01-31-2010 12:45 PM
And if Toyota had put a failsafe in the computer program like other manufacturers who use DBW to begin with no one would have gotten hurt or killed.
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| | | quote | Originally posted by 84fiero123: 02-02-2010 08:54 AM
Toyota pedal fix too late to prevent backlash
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| | | quote | Originally posted by 84fiero123: 02-02-2010 11:25 AM
He can say what ever he wants.
As I have said before the problem could be in the computer.
And it could have been avoided with a simple default in the computer like other cars have that have the DBW pedal.
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| | | quote | Originally posted by 84fiero123: 02-02-2010 03:13 PM
LaHood says Toyota slow to respond
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| | | quote | Originally posted by 84fiero123: 02-02-2010 08:17 PM
They should have put the failsafe into the program in the beginning.
Then they stonewalled and tried to say it was something else.
This is one of the worst cases of fk the buyer I can remember.
Toyota screwed up. But god forbid it is a jap problem, they are perfect.
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| | | quote | Originally posted by 84fiero123: 02-02-2010 08:19 PM
I will keep this thread on page one until they admit it was Toyota Japan that did this.
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| | | quote | Originally posted by 84fiero123: 02-03-2010 07:39 AM
Toyota hit by over 100 Prius brake complaints
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| | | quote | Originally posted by 84fiero123: 02-03-2010 11:02 AM
LaHood to call Toyota president about recalls
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| | | quote | Originally posted by 84fiero123: 02-03-2010 11:04 AM
Feds expand probe of pedal parts
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| | | quote | Originally posted by 84fiero123: 02-03-2010 12:50 PM
LaHood says don't drive recalled Toyotas til fixed
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| | | quote | Originally posted by 84fiero123: 02-02-2010 08:17 PM
They should have put the failsafe into the program in the beginning.
Then they stonewalled and tried to say it was something else.
This is one of the worst cases of fk the buyer I can remember.
Toyota screwed up. But god forbid it is a jap problem, they are perfect.
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| | | quote | Originally posted by 84fiero123:
I will keep this thread on page one until they admit it was Toyota Japan that did this.
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| | | quote | Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: 02-04-2010 08:43 AM
WOW!
It looks like Toyota now has major problems with their brakes.
Wow... this is totally messed up. Toyota is refusing to issue a recall on Prius's in America (but they've issued them elsewhere). However, the transportation ministry (I assume in Japan because we don't call any of our departments "ministries") is urging them to do so.
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| | | quote | Originally posted by 84fiero123: 02-04-2010 11:43 AM
I personally don’t care why it was done.
What I care about is that it has the proper redundant safeguards in place when it is built and not after a few hundred people have died.
In this case with this manufacturer none of the above was done.
Obviously.
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So, after all that drivel, you would suggest to me (I was gonna say "have the audacity"), and the forum, that I have a need, no, that I always have a need to defend Toyota. When all I did was ask Steve what's up with all the bashing.
| | | quote | Originally posted by cliffw:
Hmm, only 19 deaths have been suggested to be related to the Toyota defect. Firestone tires killed way more many than that. How many were killed by Crown Vics catching on fire ? Let me rephrase that. How many police officers were killed by Crown Vics catching on fire ? More than 30. The 05 to 07 Corvettes killed 19 people.
I don't remember you bastardizing GN when they refused the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration's request to voluntarily recall 4.7 million Pick Up trucks.
What gives Steve ?
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That I merely pointed out American auto is just as apt to produce a flawed vehicle and ignore death causing defects and even cover them up in no way should be interpreted as an attempt to defer blame. You were reaching there. That you suggest I am acting like a democrat, well, that's rich. Funny. Ironic. I was sitting back thinking that you were taking a page out of the Saul Alynsky book "Rules For Radicals". You know, ridicule me by suggesting I am prejudiced. Alledgeing I defer blame when I did not. Wrongly stating that I can not accept the incident for what it is when I have. That I make excuses for Toyota when I never have. That I have a continual need to point out other companies have the same problems (which I only started to do because I am tired of the drivel). You are displaying other democratic tendencies than I care to recall. That Todd is sad.
| | | quote | Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:
You are JUST like a Democrat, Cliff... you're purposly leaving out parts of information that are critical to meaning the difference between life and death in this argument.
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I ain't purposely leaving anything out nor having an argument. I can post drivel too. Truth is that I don't give a crap. I have not even taken my Toyota in for the recall service. I am wondering though why Steve has not championed the cause of every other manufacturer defect from baby cribs to coffee pots. It seems as though he has a bad taste in his mouth because of the failures of union GM. That by kicking a better company when it is down it can somehow taste better. Dream on Steve.
Eh, I did not spend enough time with this post but also spent way too much of my life on it. Continue with your bash fest.[This message has been edited by cliffw (edited 02-06-2010).] IP: Logged |
82-T/A [At Work]
Member Posts: 4032
From: Cooper City, Florida USA
Registered: Aug 2002
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| | | quote | Originally posted by cliffw:
Ah. You admit it.
I wish no ill will on you. I don't get upset. Your a stand up guy in my book. Your allowed to be misguided just like I am. Calling me a Democrat, well ... that is not even kinda presumptive. You know me. I did not say I hoped that I upset you. I just hoped that I touched a nerve. |
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I apologize... that was a little bit below the belt. I won't call you that again.
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Todd,
2008 Jeep Patriot Limited 4x2
2002 Ford Explorer Sport 2dr 4x2
2002 Ford Crown Victoria LX
1987 Pontiac Fiero SE / V6
1973 Volkswagen Type-2 Transporter IP: Logged |
84fiero123
Member Posts: 8346
From: farmington, maine usa
Registered: Oct 2004
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All I have done so far is post articles and links to them from AP sources that are related to this defect.
Given my opinion about it.
Do I like Toyota vehicles?
No
But that is my privilege.
Just as it is yours to buy their crap.
Steve ------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys. IP: Logged |
82-T/A [At Work]
Member Posts: 4032
From: Cooper City, Florida USA
Registered: Aug 2002
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http://video.foxbusiness.com/v/4004853IP: Logged |
84fiero123
Member Posts: 8346
From: farmington, maine usa
Registered: Oct 2004
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news flash.,,,,
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INSIDE WASHINGTON: Missed signs in Toyota recalls
Email this Story
Feb 6, 12:02 PM (ET)
By KEN THOMAS
(AP) In this Feb. 3, 2010 file photo, a shim that will be used to repair springs in the gas pedal...
Full Image
WASHINGTON (AP) - When Peter Boddeart's Lexus lurched forward and rear-ended another vehicle in Fauquier County, Va., earning him a police citation, he wrote to federal regulators imploring them to look into his case "before someone ends up seriously injured or killed."
That was in 2003.
The years since have seen hundreds of drivers' complaints about unwanted acceleration of their Toyotas, six inconclusive federal investigations, multiple reports of deaths and repeated denials from the automaker that it had a major problem on its hands.
That's just the sort of bureaucratic inertia Barack Obama pointedly criticized as a presidential candidate. Yet his administration was without a federal highway safety chief for most of its first year and, like the Bush administration before it, missed signals in the Toyota case.
After several investigations, it was only last week that Toyota owners learned federal regulators, concerned that the company was not taking apparently dangerous defects seriously enough, traveled to Japan in December to light a fire under corporate executives. Meanwhile, millions of Toyotas continued to be driven by drivers unaware of the potential scope of the problem, and the cars continued to be sold.
Combined with a recall involving the toxic metal cadmium that arose from press scrutiny rather than federal oversight, the Toyota episode has raised questions about whether the government under Democrats will be any more agile in enforcement of consumer protections than the Bush administration was.
"When you've got a government regulatory agency, it has to be a government cop on the corporate beat," said Joan Claybrook, who was chief of the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration during the Carter administration. "And it's got to act like a cop."
Claybrook said that while most of the Toyota investigations took place during the Bush administration, the absence of a permanent administrator during Obama's first year prevented a new team from conducting a full review of dozens of pending defect investigations and a fresh look at the Toyota cases.
Toyota's string of recalls burst into the open in late September, leaving millions of car owners unsure if their vehicles were safe to drive and tarnishing the reputation of a company once synonymous with safe, reliable cars. The road to the recall of millions of Camrys, Corollas and other popular Toyota models began years ago, touched off by warnings from Boddeart, who died in April, and others who worried their cars might bolt forward and cause a crash.
(AP) This undated handout photo provided by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA)...
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Back in 2003, Boddeart told regulators that his accident marked the third time his 1999 Lexus LS400 accelerated unexpectedly and asked them to investigate. Five months later, the 83-year-old's petition to the agency was panned "in view of the need to allocate and prioritize NHTSA's limited resources," a common refrain in rejection letters.
Several investigations followed.
In 2004, Carol Mathews, a nurse from Rockville, Md., crashed into a tree when her Lexus suddenly accelerated. She asked the agency to investigate. The government reviewed problems with electronic throttles in about 1 million Toyota and Lexus vehicles and found more than 100 complaints.
Seeking to limit the scope of the review, Toyota urged the government to consider a "vehicle surge to be something less than a wide-open throttle." No defect was found after 4 1/2 months of investigating and the case was closed.
In July 2005, Jordan Ziprin, a retired attorney in Phoenix, asked the government to dig into the problem after his 2002 Camry XLE spun out of control and crashed into an electric utility box. "Had there been any vehicles or pedestrians in the street, deaths would probably have followed," he wrote.
(AP) In this Feb. 3, 2010, file photo Toyota vehicles with a CTS model gas pedal are lined up at...
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Reviewing Toyota models built from 2002 to 2005, the agency found that 20 percent of 432 complaints reviewed involved "sudden or unintended acceleration." But regulators said the complaint rate was "unremarkable." The government closed the case, citing "insufficient evidence."
A separate investigation launched in March 2007 reviewed allegations that floor mats were interfering with accelerator pedals. Toyota said a month later that there was "no possibility of the pedal interference with the all-weather floor mat if it's placed properly and secured."
By that August, government investigators had tied the problem to 12 deaths and a survey of 600 Lexus owners found about 10 percent reported sudden or unexpected acceleration. In September, Toyota recalled 55,000 Camry and ES350 vehicles to replace the floor mats. But that was hardly the end of the problems.
In January 2008, William Kronholm of Helena, Mont., complained about his 2006 Tacoma truck accelerating while he hit the brakes. During the investigation, Toyota told NHTSA it believed complaints by Kronholm, a retired Associated Press editor, and others were attributed to "extensive media coverage" and many of the problems cited by consumers - including lurching when the vehicle came to a stop and engine idle speed changes when the vehicle was stopped - were "minor drivability concerns." Kronholm's case was closed in August 2008 without a defect finding.
Last August, a high-speed crash near San Diego killed a California highway patrol officer, his wife, daughter and brother-in-law, bringing renewed attention to the problems, now the regulatory responsibility of the Obama administration.
(AP) In this April 19, 2004, file photo Public Citizen President Joan Claybrook meets reporters...
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The highway patrol officer's loaner Lexus ES350 reached speeds of more than 120 mph, struck an SUV, launched off an embankment, rolled several times and burst into flames. The family frantically called 911 from the Lexus, telling the dispatcher the pedal was stuck and they couldn't stop.
In October, Toyota issued its largest-ever U.S. recall, involving about 4 million vehicles. The fix, which is still under way, includes reconfiguring the gas pedal and installing brake override software on some vehicles.
In November, Toyota said federal regulators had concluded "no defect exists" in the case, drawing a rare rebuke from the government. NHTSA said the company issued inaccurate information. In December, federal officials traveled to Japan to urge Toyota to take the safety concerns seriously and report defects promptly. Toyota said it would comply.
On Jan. 12, a top Toyota executive said the company was addressing the problems. "We have learned from these mistakes and we are confident that we're doing the right thing for our customers," Toyota Motor Sales USA president Yoshi Inaba said in a Detroit speech.
Nine days later, Toyota recalled 2.3 million vehicles over concerns that the gas pedal could get stuck or fail to return to the idle position. Dealers are now engaged in an all-out blitz to fix the vehicles, inserting a small plate into the pedal assembly to deal with friction that could cause the problem.
(AP) In this Aug. 20, 2009 file photo, Ralph Nader is seen in Washington. President Barack...
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Separately, Toyota also told dealers Friday that it's preparing a plan to repair the brakes on thousands of hybrid Prius cars in the U.S. and would disclose details in the coming week. More than 100 drivers of 2010 Prius cars have complained that their brakes seemed to fail momentarily when they were driving on bumpy roads.
The efforts have done little to soothe critics who have long thought the highway safety agency was too trusting of car companies and slow to push for higher standards. In Toyota's case, two of the company's top safety officials in Washington are former NHTSA employees.
Consumer advocate Ralph Nader, who exposed auto industry malfeasance in his 1960s best-seller, "Unsafe at Any Speed," said the problems stem from a "regulatory enforcement agency that turned itself, due to corporate pressure and White House neglect, into a consulting firm."
NHTSA was without a permanent administrator for most of the past year. Obama's first choice, Chuck Hurley, chief executive officer of Mothers Against Drunk Driving, withdrew from consideration after environmentalists criticized him for being too soft on fuel efficiency standards. It was not until December that Obama put forward David Strickland, a former counsel to the Senate Commerce, Science and Transportation Committee, who was confirmed.
Now fully engaged, the Transportation Department has stepped up its investigation and warned that Toyota could face civil penalties of up to $16 million for failing to issue timely recalls. But the government has sent a mixed message. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood advised owners of recalled Toyota to stop driving their vehicles last week, then quickly backtracked and said he misspoke.
(AP) The Toyota Motor Corp. headquarters stands in Toyota, central Japan, Saturday, Feb. 6, 2010....
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Congress is investigating and lawmakers are planning at least two hearings on the Toyota recalls this month. Now some Republicans, whose party was accused of failing to protect consumers during the Bush administration, question whether the agency held Toyota accountable.
"It begs the question if this is an organization that has been broken for a long time," said Rep. Darrell Issa, R-Calif., the top Republican on the House Oversight and Government Committee. "They do a lot of good things but are certainly not doing everything they should well enough."
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AP Business Writer Stephen Manning contributed to this report.
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http://apnews.excite.com/ar...00206/D9DMQ11G2.html------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys. IP: Logged |
maryjane
Member Posts: 29885
From: Cleveland Tex
Registered: Apr 2001
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| | | quote | | The highway patrol officer's loaner Lexus ES350 reached speeds of more than 120 mph, struck an SUV, launched off an embankment, rolled several times and burst into flames. The family frantically called 911 from the Lexus, telling the dispatcher the pedal was stuck and they couldn't stop. |
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Is this the one that the NTSB official report said was caused because it had the wrong floor mats--Dealer installed--and the mat clips either not fastened or not secured properly?
Tragedy no matter what.IP: Logged |
madcurl
Member Posts: 15148
From: In a Van, parked down by the River
Registered: Jul 2003
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DBW- nope. I'm good with the old system using a cable. While the government is checking; they should look into those newer planes.IP: Logged |
84fiero123
Member Posts: 8346
From: farmington, maine usa
Registered: Oct 2004
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Well they are starting to replace the pedals.
Toyota drivers pull in for repair; Prius fix looms
Email this Story
Feb 6, 5:32 PM (ET)
By DEE-ANN DURBIN
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DETROIT (AP) - Responding to two recalls and facing the prospect of another one, Toyota dealers across the country were repairing thousands of cars Saturday, the first weekend day that many drivers had a chance to take action.
Although many dealers expected a long line of customers, most drivers seemed far from panicked.
Delwyn Wright, a 51-year-old truck driver, had heard about Toyota's troubles on the news but got the accelerator on his wife's Camry fixed Saturday after it was suggested by a dealer in Columbia, S.C., where Wright had taken the car for an oil change.
"We ain't never had no problem with it," Wright said.

Toyota recalled 2.3 million cars in eight models, including the top-selling Camry, on Jan. 21 and stopped selling the vehicles five days later because the gas pedals can get stuck in a depressed position. But it took until the past week for Toyota to mail parts to dealers and train technicians, making this the first weekend many Toyota owners could seek repairs.
At the same time, dealers are repairing 5 million Toyotas from an earlier recall because their floor mats could jam the pedals, causing unintended acceleration. And the possibility of another recall looms - this time, for the company's celebrated Prius hybrid.
Even so, at Manhattan Toyota, a dealership on the borough's West Side, there were more potential Toyota buyers in the showroom on Saturday than car owners waiting for their gas pedal to be modified. A giant sign in the window read: "We have 200 cars not affected by the recall."
Sales manager Chris Mignano said the dealership started doing the pedal modifications on Friday, completing work on about 30 cars by Saturday morning. Six extra technicians were hired to handle the repairs.
Mignano said every customer who called has been given an appointment and a quick primer on how to stop their vehicle - apply the brakes and put the car in neutral - if a problem should occur.
One customer, Margot Hammond, called the repair "very easy - no problems."
Rob Gregory of Rochester Toyota in Rochester, Minn., had a steady stream of customers needing gas pedal repairs Saturday, but lines were never more than three or four cars long. He said it took technicians about 15 minutes to install a steel shim in the gas pedal assembly to stop the pedal from staying down.
Even though the fix is quick and simple, dealers say they're confident that the repair will stop the gas pedal problems.
"I've been with Toyota 20 years, I feel confident with Toyota," said Bruce Winokur, general sales manager at Toyota Center in Columbia, S.C. "As long as I've been with them, everything they've done in the past with issues, they have done the right way."
Regulators aren't so sure. The U.S. Department of Transportation is reviewing whether Toyotas and other vehicles may have a wider problem of electronic interference causing acceleration and other unintended actions.
The government is also investigating more than 100 reports that the brakes on the 2010 Prius hybrid appeared to fail momentarily when the car is driving on bumpy roads. Toyota blames a software glitch and says it has already fixed vehicles in production. But it's still deciding how to handle repairs on 270,000 Priuses that were sold in the U.S. and Japan starting last year. The company could announce a full-fledged safety recall or simply ask owners to bring their vehicles in for repairs, since the brakes aren't failing completely.
In a letter to U.S. dealers Friday, Toyota said it will announce its plan for the Prius in the coming days. It also told dealers that a new, 60-second television ad will begin airing Sunday that admits Toyota hasn't been living up to its reputation for quality and safety. The ad says the company is working hard to repair the recalled vehicles and restore trust.
Toyota needs to win over people such as Laura Benin, 34, from the New York borough of Queens.
She owns a 2009 silver Toyota Corolla. It was her first car, and she chose it because she wanted something reliable. After hearing of the recall she was frustrated that her dealer didn't seem to know how to handle it. And almost two weeks went by "before I got any kind of communication from Toyota," she said.
"If I had to do it over again, I would not be looking at a Toyota," she said.
Still, there are plenty of customers like Mike Chuba, a 53-year-old chemical engineer from Wrightstown, N.J., who doesn't seem upset. He hasn't had accelerator problems on his 2009 Camry and doesn't plan to get his car repaired until the end of February, at his next scheduled oil change.
"It runs extremely well. I've had no problems with it and it's good value for the money," he said. "I plan to drive it until it falls apart."
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Associated Press Writers Deborah Yao in Philadelphia, Briana Bierschbach in Rochester, Minn., Verena Dobnik in New York and Page Ivey in Columbia, S.C., contributed to this report.
http://apnews.excite.com/ar...00206/D9DMURVO0.html------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys. IP: Logged |
84fiero123
Member Posts: 8346
From: farmington, maine usa
Registered: Oct 2004
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Toyota to announce action soon for Prius hybrids
Email this Story
Feb 7, 6:04 AM (ET)
By KELLY OLSEN
(AP) Graphic shows yearly sales figures of eight recalled Toyota vehicle models
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TOKYO (AP) - Toyota said Sunday that it will soon announce plans to deal with braking problems in its prized Prius hybrid amid reports it has decided to issue a recall for the latest model in Japan, a possible new embarrassment for the world's biggest automaker.
Toyota Motor Corp. has already had to recall more than 7 million other cars in the U.S., Europe and China over a sticky accelerator and floor mats that can get caught in the gas pedal. Those problems and criticism of Toyota's response to them have sullied the stellar reputation for quality long enjoyed by one of Japan's corporate icons.
Separately, the company has told dealers in the United States it is preparing to repair the brakes on thousands of Prius vehicles there, according to an e-mail sent by a company executive. It was unclear whether Toyota planned a formal U.S. recall.
"We will make an announcement soon on the action we plan to take," spokeswoman Ririko Takeuchi said, commenting on media reports Sunday that the company has decided to issue a Japan recall. Takeuchi did not confirm those reports.

The Prius is the world's top-selling gas-electric hybrid and its fuel efficiency has drawn intense interest amid concerns about global warming and dependence on fossil fuels.
Toyota decided Saturday on a recall in Japan covering its latest Prius model and has notified domestic dealers, Japan's largest newspaper, the Yomiuri, reported without naming sources. It said Toyota would announce the move early in the coming week after consulting with the Japanese government. Japan's Kyodo News agency and TV Asahi carried similar reports. Kyodo said Toyota had started notifying dealers and that at least 170,000 vehicles in Japan would be subject to the recall.
Phone calls to the section at Japan's transport ministry dealing with recalls went unanswered Sunday. None of about 10 Toyota dealers in Tokyo and the western Japanese city of Osaka contacted about the reports said they had received any notification, though some said they expected to have news this week.
Prius drivers in Japan and the U.S. have complained of a short delay before the brakes kick in - a flaw Toyota says can be fixed with a software programming change. The lag occurs as the car is switching between brakes for the gas engine and the electric motor - a process that is key to the hybrid's increased mileage.
The brake problem affects about 270,000 Priuses that were sold in the U.S. and Japan starting last May. The company blames a software glitch and says it has already fixed vehicles that went on sale since last month.
Bob Carter, a Toyota group vice president, sent an e-mail message Friday night to U.S. dealers saying the automaker is working on a Prius repair plan and will disclose more details early this week. At least 100 drivers of Prius cars in the U.S. have complained to the government that their brakes seemed to fail momentarily when they were driving on bumpy roads. The government says the problem is suspected in four crashes and two minor injuries.
Public awareness of the problem "has prompted considerable customer concern, speculation, and media attention due to the significance of the Prius image," Carter said in the e-mail. "We want to assure our dealers that we are moving rapidly to provide a solution for your existing customers."
Besides a full-fledged safety recall, the company could simply ask owners to bring in their vehicles for repairs, since the brakes are not failing completely. The lag occurs as the car switches between brakes for the gas engine and the electric motor - a process that is key to the hybrid's increased mileage.
The Yomiuri newspaper, however, said that Toyota decided on the more serious step of a recall for the Prius to give priority to restoring consumer trust.
Toyota has acknowledged receiving dozens of complaints about the Prius in Japan.
There is high-level government concern in Japan about Toyota's quality problems. Cabinet ministers have expressed alarm and urged the company to move more quickly to ease consumer worries.
Media criticism of Toyota has intensified since a news conference on Friday by Toyota President Akio Toyoda in which he offered an apology for the defects, but few details about what the automaker would do about the Prius.
The reports said the new Prius model was released in May, and more than 300,000 have been sold in about 60 countries and territories.
---
Associated Press writers Yuri Kageyama and Jay Alabaster in Tokyo and AP Auto Writer Dee-Ann Durbin in Detroit contributed to this report.
http://apnews.excite.com/ar...00207/D9DN9S7G0.html
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Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys. IP: Logged |
cliffw
Member Posts: 17265
From: Kerrville, Texas, USA
Registered: Jun 2003
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| | | quote | Originally posted by 84fiero123:
All I have done so far is post articles and links to them from AP sources that are related to this defect.
Given my opinion about it.
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All you've done is give your opinion ? Yeah right, . Every day multiple times for sixteen days. Which is your privilege. Except, you are not giving an opinion.
Your slacking Steve. Missed this "kick 'em when their down" tidbit. What you are doing is displaying a hatred towards an entity which is kicking GM's azz. Using a rationale of a reason American auto is also guilty of..
| | | quote | highlited linky
Toyota Faces U.S. Congress Probes on Accelerators (Update4)
BusinessWeek | 8 days 14 hours 56 minutes ago
Jan. 29 (Bloomberg) -- Toyota Motor Corp.’s handling of defective gas pedals that led to a record recall of vehicles in the U.S. will be investigated by Congress amid criticism that the automaker may not have acted quickly enough.Sudden acceleration of Toyota vehicles has been linked to 19 deaths in the past decade, according to House Energy and Commerce Committee Chairman Henry Waxman. His panel plans a hearing Feb. 25, following a Feb. 4 hearing by the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform.Lawmakers will examine what the company knew and what it’s doing to resolve the problem, Waxman, a California Democrat, said in a statement on his committee’s Web site.“Like many consumers, I am concerned by the seriousness and scope of Toyota’s recent recall announcements,” he said.Toyota recalled 2.3 million U.S. cars and light trucks on Jan. 21 for pedal-related problems linked to sudden acceleration. The company separately recalled more than 5 million vehicles to prevent pedals from getting trapped by floor mats. Toyota City, Japan-based Toyota stopped U.S. production and sales on eight models this week.“The public is unsure as to what exactly the problem is, whether it is safe to drive their cars, or what they should do about it,” Representative Edolphus Towns, a New York Democrat and chairman of the oversight and government reform panel, said today in a statement.The world’s largest automaker said it will give customers details next week on a fix to the pedal flaw. Parts supplied by CTS Corp. will be either replaced or new assemblies will be installed, Brian Lyons, a Toyota spokesman, said today. He didn’t immediately have specifics on repair timing.Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood planned to talk today with Towns and the panel’s top Republican, Representative Darrell Issa of California, he said in an interview in Bloomberg’s Washington office. He said he will appear before Congress to explain how his agency handled the pedal issue.While Toyota officials met with committee lawmakers and staff this week, “we continue to have questions about what was done to investigate and resolve this safety issue both by Toyota” and the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, said U.S. Representative Bart Stupak, Democrat of Michigan and chairman of the subcommittee on oversight and investigations.“Incidents of sticking accelerators have been ongoing with Toyota vehicles for up to a decade, and have led to a disproportionately high number of deaths,” Stupak said. “Failure to take every possible step to prevent future deaths or injuries is simply unacceptable.”“Toyota appreciates the opportunity to inform the committee” about the problem and the company’s efforts to address it, Ed Lewis, a Toyota spokesman in Washington, said in a statement today.U.S. dealers who sell Toyota’s namesake brand may lose as much as $2.47 billion in combined monthly revenue because of the sales halt, said John McEleney, the chairman of the National Automobile Dealers Association and owner of McEleney Toyota in Clinton, Iowa.The automaker said today it would also recall eight models in Europe, including some Corolla and Avensis cars. The move may cover as many as 1.8 million vehicles. Toyota’s effort to fix the pedals doesn’t extend to Japan, where it uses different parts makers.Waxman and Stupak said they asked Toyota North America President Yoshimi Inaba and David Strickland, NHTSA administrator, for more information on the matter.The regulator and Toyota both moved too slowly to pinpoint the problem and advise consumers about dangerous pedal-related defects, Joan Claybrook, a former NHTSA administrator, said in an interview yesterday.“They weren’t doing much with enforcement,” Claybrook, a former head of the Washington-based advocacy group Public Citizen, said of the safety agency. “They’re supposed to review, analyze and go back to the companies and say, ‘What’s going on here?’”LaHood defended the automaker and the safety agency.“Toyota has followed the law,” he told Bloomberg reporters. “Our people did a good job.”The accelerator pedals drew attention after a California Highway Patrol officer and three family members were killed in an August accident. A floor mat on a Lexus sedan he was driving may have jammed the pedal and caused the car to speed out of control, according to Toyota.In November, the safety agency said Toyota was “inaccurate and misleading” in comments the company made on the problem. Toyota had issued a statement two days earlier saying U.S. safety investigators found no defect existed in vehicles “in which the driver’s floor mat is compatible with the vehicle and properly secured.”The agency said Toyota’s remedy didn’t “correct the underlying defect,” which it said was related to the accelerator pedal and floor pan design. LaHood urged Toyota owners to remove floor mats.LaHood said yesterday that he’s “absolutely” satisfied with the performance of NHTSA, which until this month lacked an administrator under President Barack Obama.Before Strickland was confirmed as administrator this month, NHTSA’s acting administrator Ron Medford traveled to Japan to meet with Toyota, LaHood said.“The problem is that NHTSA always has the underdog role” in dealing with automakers, said Sean Kane, president of Safety Research & Strategies Inc., a safety advocacy group in Rehoboth, Massachusetts.NHTSA’s office of defects investigation has a staff of only 20, has no expertise in electronics and has a “long history of missing unintended-acceleration complaints that can’t be easily identified,” Kane said in an interview yesterday. “They relied a lot on Toyota to tell them what the issues are and that’s not uncommon. The sophistication of Toyota is at a much greater level than that of the agency.”NHTSA has been in “constant contact” with Toyota throughout the course of the recalls, said Karen Aldana, an agency spokeswoman.Toyota’s American depositary receipts, each representing two ordinary shares, fell 67 cents to $77 at 4:15 p.m. in New York Stock Exchange composite trading. The receipts have dropped for six consecutive trading days. --With assistance from John Hughes and Roger Runningen in Washington, Alan Ohnsman in Los Angeles, Cornelius Rahn in Frankfurt, Mike Ramsey and Doron Levin in Southfield, Michigan and Makiko Kitamura in Tokyo. Editors: Joe Richter, Romaine Bostick To contact the editor responsible for this story: Larry Liebert at +1-202-624-1936 or lliebert@bloomberg.netSponsored Links e-Learning Basics White Paper Download Now. Select the right e-Learning solution to match your corporate goals Download: Keeping Talented Employees Download this White Paper for 10 key actions that will help keep talent around. How To Buy Hot Penny Stocks Daily Alerts On Active Trading Penny Stocks. Join Free, Our Last Pick Is Up 298%...
Read the complete story at BusinessWeek
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You can go to BusinessWeek and post the rest of it since you get a hard on from doing so.
IP: Logged |
ditch
Member Posts: 3446
From: Brookston, IN
Registered: Mar 2003
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In light of all these issues, I'd still buy a toyota if given a choice between a toyota and any GM car. GM should fail like it was supposed to, not stay in business at the tax payers expense. IP: Logged |
carnut122
Member Posts: 1947
From: Waleska, GA, USA
Registered: Jan 2004
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| | | quote | Originally posted by cliffw:
You have not seen me defend the actions of Toyota. Toyota should not get a free pass. What you have seen me do is to correct the bastardizing of one company while ignoring others who have done the same thing. Odd that so many non Toyota owners are so interested in this thread. |
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I show a great deal of interest because we're talking about 9,000,000 vehicles and the fact that most of the Toyota owners that I've known have gone out of their ways to tell me they'd never buy a domestic vehicle due to reliability and recall issues. Rarely do I find a Toyota owner who has ever turned a wrench, yet they sure let me know what a moron I am for driving domestic vehicles. Maybe this will finally shut them up? But, it gets worse; now I have to fear for my safety and my family's safety whenever I see a Toyota in my rear-view mirror. I was only hoping for a reprieve from their ignorant verbal battering, not blood on the highway-possibly mine.[This message has been edited by carnut122 (edited 02-07-2010).] IP: Logged |
84fiero123
Member Posts: 8346
From: farmington, maine usa
Registered: Oct 2004
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Cliff all I am doing is posting the news update that I find on my Excite home page.
As far as bastardizing them. I think Toyota is doing a dam good job all by themselves.
Do other car companies have defects?
You dam right they do, I posted a lot of crap on dodges tranies when I found out about it.
Did ford have a recall for tranies slipping into reverse in the 70’s?
Dam right they did.
Do I care if Toyota goes under because of this?
No more than you and Don want GM to fail.
Steve ------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys. IP: Logged |
cliffw
Member Posts: 17265
From: Kerrville, Texas, USA
Registered: Jun 2003
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| | | quote | Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:
I apologize... that was a little bit below the belt. I won't call you that again.
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No worries. I was not offended. I don't feel as though you attacked me. As I said, I thought it was funny. Apology not necessary but thanks for the sentiment.
IP: Logged |
carnut122
Member Posts: 1947
From: Waleska, GA, USA
Registered: Jan 2004
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| | | quote | Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:
I wonder how many future problems will surface due to this little shim being added? Obviously it probably wasn't designed to have this shim in there, and I can only assume all the surrounding materials are plastic. Removing all this stuff will only fatigue the plastic and will add additional stress to the rest of the components.
I hope they know what they're doing...
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From what I saw, the shim was needed to take up the slack from either an under-designed backing plate, a fatigued spring, or both. I'm not sure, but apparently over time a gap develops that needs to be shimmed. But, I don't see how that addresses additional acceleration as in it should only cause the accelerator to stick not dial in more acceleration???IP: Logged |
cliffw
Member Posts: 17265
From: Kerrville, Texas, USA
Registered: Jun 2003
|
| | | quote | Originally posted by carnut122:
I show a great deal of interest because we're talking about 9,000,000 vehicles and the fact that most of the Toyota owners that I've known have gone out of their ways to tell me they'd never buy a domestic vehicle due to reliability and recall issues. Rarely do I find a Toyota owner who has ever turned a wrench, yet they sure let me know what a moron I am for driving domestic vehicles. Maybe this will finally shut them up? But, it gets worse, now I have to fear for my safety and my family's safety whenever I see a Toyota in my rear-view mirror. I was only hoping for a reprieve from their ignorant verbal battering, not blood on the highway-possibly mine. |
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I can understand the interest and I can appreciate the sentiment that some may have to shut up Toyota/import morons. They do exist.
If you fear for your and your families safety when ever a Toyota is behind you, you are overly paranoid. The percentages are very low. Very low. The press, some in government, and Steve are blowing it up to out of proportion. Using the scare card to do what they can't do by honest competition. When I see psychological BS like that, whether automotive, politics, love life, whatever, I know something is lacking in the attacker.
Me, I never ridicule and spout off that my Toyota is better. Perhaps I give that illusion because I defend my choice to buy one. I often get attacked because I have the audacity to buy something other than American auto. I love that fight.
I find this issue of interest myself. There have been many good posts in this thread. Don't need a blow by blow broadcast of the beating Toyota is taking and I believe they deserve what they get.
IP: Logged |
cliffw
Member Posts: 17265
From: Kerrville, Texas, USA
Registered: Jun 2003
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| | | quote | Originally posted by carnut122:
From what I saw, the shim was needed to take up the slack from either an under-designed backing plate, a fatigued spring, or both. I'm not sure, but apparently over time a gap develops that needs to be shimmed. But, I don't see how that addresses additional acceleration as in it should only cause the accelerator to stick not dial in more acceleration??? |
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Ah, an example of a good post,  .
My understanding is that the shim somehow stopped unwanted electrical contacts being made. That somehow when the pedal was pushed, unwanted electrical pulses were transferred. Causing the computer to mistake what was needed.
If you guys want some more technical understanding of the issue with thoughtful discussion, instead of the wild speculation going on here, from news tidbits, go to one of many Toyota forums. I don't have any that I can recommend over another. I am a member of one but have not posted in years nor even lurked.IP: Logged |
cliffw
Member Posts: 17265
From: Kerrville, Texas, USA
Registered: Jun 2003
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| | | quote | Originally posted by 84fiero123:
Cliff all I am doing is posting the news update that I find on my Excite home page.
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Why ? The why is what you are doing. We are too lazy to look for ourselves if it concerns us ? Do you really think everyone reads all that drivel you post ? Your wasting bandwidth ? A good article should give a good summary early on in the reading. You could even just give a summary with a linky, but no. Every little word is another beat on Toyota sending a thrill up your leg.
Whatever Steve. I have my worthless past times too.
| | | quote | Originally posted by maryjane:
What is it you want?
Everyone to bow and say you are right? I've already said you may be.
You have insecurity issues or what?
What's the deal? |
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| | | quote | Originally posted by maryjane:
The subject I am pointing to with that link, is your unhealthy preoccupation with being right so much.
I've never seen anyone else that it mattered so much, as it does with you Steve. |
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IP: Logged |
84fiero123
Member Posts: 8346
From: farmington, maine usa
Registered: Oct 2004
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And you and Don have an unhealthy preoccupation with helping to destroy GM. A boycott of GM is healthy how?
So what is the difference?
Steve ------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys. IP: Logged |
cliffw
Member Posts: 17265
From: Kerrville, Texas, USA
Registered: Jun 2003
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| | | quote | Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:
Let me remind everyone that after the Japanese signed their unconditional surrender on the deck of the Mighty Mo... they said if they couldn't beat us militarily... they would beat us economically. Bring it on...
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They did bring it on and are kicking our azzes. Even if we just bought American only they would still be kicking our azzes.
Are we up for the challenge ? I think we should be very scared. Not of them, of us.
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cliffw
Member Posts: 17265
From: Kerrville, Texas, USA
Registered: Jun 2003
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| | | quote | Originally posted by 84fiero123:
And you and Don have an unhealthy preoccupation with helping to destroy GM. A boycott of GM is healthy how?
So what is the difference?
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Well now, show me one post of mine where I said that. Pre Government Motors. A boycott of Government Motors is healthy. If you don't want government up your azz. The rip off of GM bond and debt holders was theft. Which angers me greatly. You are picking on a mistake. That is the difference.
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84fiero123
Member Posts: 8346
From: farmington, maine usa
Registered: Oct 2004
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| | | quote | Originally posted by cliffw:
You are picking on a mistake. That is the difference. |
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Ah but was it a mistake?
Or is it the Japanese still trying to win a war they lost 60 years ago?
Steve
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Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.[This message has been edited by 84fiero123 (edited 02-07-2010).] IP: Logged |
84fiero123
Member Posts: 8346
From: farmington, maine usa
Registered: Oct 2004
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Toyota loses some luster in hometown over recalls
Feb 7, 2:00 PM (ET)
By JAY ALABASTER
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TOYOTA, Japan (AP) - Even in its hometown, the great automaker has lost some of its mystique.
Rising out of the barren winter rice fields of central Japan, this city of 400,000 people is probably the most Toyota-friendly place on the planet. Renamed after the company 51 years ago, it hosts the corporate headquarters as well as enormous factories and is beholden to the automaker for tens of thousands of jobs and the bulk of its tax income.
Residents say they, like the rest of the world, were surprised by the safety problems that have led to a mass recall of Toyota vehicles. But it was the company's response that was more shocking - the global icon came across as dithering and unprepared.
"Maybe Toyota isn't any different from ordinary companies," said Akari Mizunaga, who works at a local trading company which depends on Toyota for much of its business. She spoke while killing time at a cafe before an English lesson.
http://apnews.excite.com/ar...00207/D9DNGRG01.html
Now Cliff biatched about me posting whole news articles using to much bandwidth as well as Bashing Toyota.
There you go Cliff, just the first few paragraphs of the news article.
Steve ------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys. IP: Logged |
84fiero123
Member Posts: 8346
From: farmington, maine usa
Registered: Oct 2004
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Another news clip for you proud Toyota owners.
Toyota's once-golden resale value gets dented
Email this Story
Feb 8, 7:01 AM (ET)
By DAVE CARPENTER
(AP) Laura Benin poses with her 2009 Toyota Corolla LE outside her home in the Queens borough of New...
Full Image
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CHICAGO (AP) - Toyota owners looking to trade in their cars have little reason to sing the carmaker's old ad slogan, "I love what you do for me - Toyota!"
Recalls and a bungled response to safety questions are putting a dent in the resale values of their cars. For years, Toyotas have been praised both for high quality and maintaining their worth. These days, the Toyota in your garage is no longer like money in the bank.
Some dealers are refusing to accept Toyotas for trade, while others are paying considerably less than they did just two week ago. Kelley Blue Book has dropped the value of recalled Toyotas by as much 3 percent. The auto research Web site Edmunds.com estimates resale or trade-in values could fall up to 10 percent in the short term.
http://apnews.excite.com/ar...00208/D9DNVQ0O1.html
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Technology is great when it works,
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Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys. IP: Logged |
84fiero123
Member Posts: 8346
From: farmington, maine usa
Registered: Oct 2004
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Seems as if Toyota has it’s own government helpers.
THE INFLUENCE GAME: Toyota's powerful DC friends
Email this Story
Feb 8, 10:19 AM (ET)
By SHARON THEIMER
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WASHINGTON (AP) - The lawmakers now investigating Toyota's recall include a senator who was so eager to lure the Japanese automaker to his state that he tramped along through fields as its executives scouted plant sites, and a congresswoman who owes much of her wealth to a Toyota supplier.
They and others on the congressional committees investigating Toyota's massive recall represent states where Toyota has factories and the coveted well-paying manufacturing jobs they bring. Some members of Congress have been such cheerleaders for Toyota that the public may wonder how they can act objectively as government watchdogs for auto safety and oversight. The company's executives include a former employee of the federal agency that is supposed to oversee the automaker.
The Senate's lead Toyota investigator, West Virginia Democrat Jay Rockefeller, credits himself with lobbying Toyota to build a factory in his state. A member of a House investigating panel, California Rep. Jane Harman, represents the district of Toyota's U.S. headquarters and has financial ties to the company.
http://apnews.excite.com/ar...00208/D9DO2N2G0.html
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and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys. IP: Logged |
cliffw
Member Posts: 17265
From: Kerrville, Texas, USA
Registered: Jun 2003
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About time for some intelligent information.
Why Toyota Must Replace Flawed CTS Gas Pedal With Superior Denso Pedal
And ...
TTAC’s Complete Guide To Toyota’s Gas Pedals: Teardown, Pictures, Toyota’s Fix, Analysis, Commentary
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84fiero123
Member Posts: 8346
From: farmington, maine usa
Registered: Oct 2004
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I believe I already posted those links Cliff, but I may have just read them and not posted. Memory sucks.
But yes I have seen those but to be honest I would like to hear from hammer about what pedal they are replacing and just what is in the flash for the computer as far as what they are putting in.
See they keep saying it is just the gas pedal. If it is just the gas pedal sticking why are these cars contuniing to accelerate after the pedal is released?
But from your own link.
Toyota’s planned fix will undoubtedly reduce the likelihood of sticky pedals in the short term, but after examining both units, we are convinced that the CTS unit is intrinsically a flawed design, and poses safety risks in the long term, even with the fix. The only right action for Toyota is to acknowledge the long history of problems with the CTS-type unit, and replace them all with the superior Denso or another pedal unit that lacks the intrinsic flaws of the CTS design.
Steve ------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys. IP: Logged |
cliffw
Member Posts: 17265
From: Kerrville, Texas, USA
Registered: Jun 2003
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| | | quote | Originally posted by 84fiero123:
If it is just the gas pedal sticking why are these cars contuniing to accelerate after the pedal is released?
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I don't know. If I were to guess I would say that the pedal just sends a signal to the computer and releasing it does not send an appropriate counter signal. I checked on a Toyota board and the pedal is not stuck, it is the throttle body sticking wide open. It could very well be all in the pedal.
| | | quote | Originally posted by 84fiero123:
Or is it the Japanese still trying to win a war they lost 60 years ago?
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 So, the deaths from Pintos and Crown Vics would be from friendly fire (pun intended), ?
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82-T/A [At Work]
Member Posts: 4032
From: Cooper City, Florida USA
Registered: Aug 2002
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| | | quote | Originally posted by cliffw:
So, the deaths from Pintos and Crown Vics would be from friendly fire (pun intended), ? |
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Again, the Crown Victoria is a platform who's chasis has remained UNCHANGED since 1979. It's a BODY on FRAME design, and even the NEWEST revision of the body was done in 1998. (already 12 years old).
The Crown Victoria has a 5-Star front and rear crash rating. ALL of the accidents that have occured have been from extremely high speed accidents, and they were almost all related to police chases.
Ford has taken a number of steps to prevent this.
1 - All new Police Interceptors (as of about 2003 I believe) come from the factory with additional shielding around the gas tank as standard.
2 - Ford now offers a Fire Suppression System to prevent fires in the engine compartment, trunk, and cabin during a roll-over or high-impact crash from any of the four sides using it's crash severity sensors.
The production numbers for Crown Victorias are staggering... theres got to be literally close to a million of them. They sell easily 50,000-70,000 every year. When you include sales of Grand Marquis (exact same vehicle) and the Lincoln Town Car which uses the EXACT same frame, you're looking at over 100,000 vehicles a year since 1979. But if you want to be fair... the current "generation" of the panther platform is 1992-2010. That's 18 years of production of over a million cars easily.
You're comparing that to only the past 3 years of production.
I honestly don't think it's a problem. I mean, if you get stuffed in the rear at 90 miles an hour, what do you expect will happen to you? All the problems are related to the Police Interceptors since they're the ones that regularly see over 100 mile an hour crashes. You never hear this complaint from Lincoln Town Car owners or the Grand Marquis (which is the EXACT same vehicle, just different badging. Even the fenders are the same).
Despite this, Ford took the criticism and put additional plating to protect the gas tank.
I don't know enough about the Pinto to make any kind of call... but I had always heard it was a turd too.
The thing is... if Camrys' were getting rear-ended at 90 miles an hour, or going rear-first into a phone pole at over 100 miles an hour... the driver would simply be dead... and there wouldn't be any complaint of fire. But since the Crown Victoria's make it through crashes like that relatively in one piece, it becomes a big deal.
It's like looking at a Fiero and criticizing it because it doesn't accelerate or handle like a Ferrari Enzo because it looks like it should.
EDIT: I'd also like to point out a big difference here... in the case of the Toyotas... the VEHICLES are the ones causing the accidents.
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Todd,
2008 Jeep Patriot Limited 4x2
2002 Ford Explorer Sport 2dr 4x2
2002 Ford Crown Victoria LX
1987 Pontiac Fiero SE / V6
1973 Volkswagen Type-2 Transporter[This message has been edited by 82-T/A [At Work] (edited 02-08-2010).] IP: Logged |
cliffw
Member Posts: 17265
From: Kerrville, Texas, USA
Registered: Jun 2003
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| | | quote | Originally posted by cliffw:
(pun intended), ? |
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82-T/A [At Work]
Member Posts: 4032
From: Cooper City, Florida USA
Registered: Aug 2002
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| | | quote | Originally posted by cliffw:
(pun intended), ? |
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Speaking of... because they made this same body style for 18 years... there's sooo many options that they created during that time and either dropped or replaced with something else. It's kind of cool looking for stuff from older cars to upgrade the newer car with. Luckily, mine already came with all of the hugely pain in the ass stuff like traction control / ABS / adjustable pedals / electronic environment controls / etc... but there are some like ground illumination, rear stabilizer bar, aluminum driveshaft (from the police cars)...
I'm even thinking of getting these for my car: http://moldyrabbit.com/liquid/web/ballistic.pdf
Ballistic door panels!!!
They even have laminated windows to give additional breakage protection against small arms fire.
I don't expect to run into any of this... but I'll tell you what... if I see one of them in the junkyard with ballistic door panels... my Crown Vic is getting an upgrade (and 500 pounds heavier I guess)
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Todd,
2008 Jeep Patriot Limited 4x2
2002 Ford Explorer Sport 2dr 4x2
2002 Ford Crown Victoria LX
1987 Pontiac Fiero SE / V6
1973 Volkswagen Type-2 Transporter IP: Logged | |
