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Author
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Topic: I wonder if we will ever know the truth.
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84fiero123
Member Posts: 8360
From: farmington, maine usa
Registered: Oct 2004
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AP Interview: LaHood says Toyota slow to respond
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Feb 2, 2:06 PM (ET)
By KEN THOMAS and STEPHEN MANNING
WASHINGTON (AP) - Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood said Toyota was slow to deal with safety problems with its gas pedals, asserting in an interview Tuesday that it took government pressure to force the company to recall millions of its most popular vehicles.
LaHood, in an interview with The Associated Press, defended his department's handling of the Toyota investigation and said the Japanese automaker was "a little safety deaf" during its probe of the problem. The company was so resistant, LaHood said, that it took a trip from federal safety officials to Japan to "wake them up" to the seriousness of the pedal problems.
"They should have taken it seriously from the very beginning when we first started discussing it with them," LaHood told AP. "Maybe they were a little safety deaf in their North American office until we went to Japan."
"If it had not been for the work of (the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration) pushing Toyota to make the recall, traveling to Japan, meeting with the top officials of Toyota in Japan and telling them that their folks in the United States seem to be a little safety deaf when it came to us talking to them, I don't know if the recall would be taking place," LaHood said.
LaHood's remarks were his most pointed since Toyota recalled 2.3 million vehicles in the United States due to concerns over gas pedals that can stick when drivers step on the gas. The Jan. 21 recall followed a separate action in October to recall millions more over problems with pedals catching on floor mats.
"It took a trip from (NHTSA deputy administrator) Ron Medford to Japan to wake them up to the idea that this is a serious issue, it's a serious safety issue," LaHood said. "We're not going to sit by and let these kinds of crashes occur without them taking very, very quick action."
Toyota apologized to its customers Monday and announced a fix that will involve inserting a piece of steel about the size of a postage into the gas pedal assembly to address potential excess friction. In rare cases, Toyota says, the friction can cause the pedal to become stuck in the depressed position.
Jim Lentz, president of Toyota Motor Sales USA, told reporters Monday that the recalls were an embarrassment for the company but it was acting quickly to address the problem. "We have to redouble our efforts to make sure this doesn't happen again," he said.
Asked for reaction to LaHood's comments to the AP, Toyota said in a statement Tuesday: "Nothing is more important to us than the safety and reliability of the vehicles our customers drive. Secretary LaHood said to us that the soonest possible action would be in the best interests of our customers, and we took his advice very seriously and instituted a recall."
"We are very grateful for his advice and we feel that we have been given a chance to regain our customers' trust," Toyota said.
Beginning in 2003, the government conducted several investigations into reports of unwanted acceleration involving Toyota vehicles but failed to find any evidence that the vehicles were defective. When the government probed reports of floor mats in Lexus vehicles jamming gas pedals, Toyota said there was "no possibility of pedal interference" with the floor mats if they were placed properly and secured.
But a government survey of Lexus owners found dozens of reports of sudden acceleration and evidence that in some crashes owners had pressed hard on the brakes but failed to stop the vehicles. The investigation led Toyota to recall an accessory all-weather floor mat for 55,000 Lexus vehicles in September 2007.
The problems grew last August when a California Highway Patrol officer and three family members were killed in a high-speed crash aboard a 2009 Lexus ES350. The Lexus hit speeds exceeding 120 mph, struck a sport utility vehicle, launched off an embankment, rolled several times and burst into flames as a family member called 911.
In October, Toyota recalled more than 4 million vehicles to replace floor mats that were suspected of causing accelerators to get stuck, leading to crashes. The recall has since grown to more than 5 million vehicles.
Following the latest recall and Toyota's decision to stop selling those vehicles, LaHood told reporters Monday that Toyota had "done the right thing" and urged car owners to contact their dealers immediately and remain cautious until repairs can be made.
But he defended the department's review of the Toyota case in the interview, arguing that NHTSA had conducted several investigations of the vehicles and pushed Toyota to recall the vehicles. "I'm not going to take a back seat to anybody when it comes to safety," LaHood said.
Underscoring his concern, LaHood said the Toyota recalls "may be the most serious safety issue that we have faced here at DOT" during his tenure. "This is a big deal, this is a big safety issue," LaHood said.
The role of the government and the company in the recalls is drawing scrutiny in Congress. The House Oversight and Government Reform Committee has launched an investigation into the recalls and scheduled a Feb. 10 hearing examining the risk to the public. LaHood and other DOT officials are expected to testify. Committee officials also have asked Yoshi Inaba, chairman and CEO of Toyota Motor North America, to testify and are expected to seek testimony from a consumer or consumer group. Separately, the investigative panel of the House Energy and Commerce Committee is planning a Feb. 25 hearing on the Toyota cases.
http://apnews.excite.com/ar...00202/D9DK7FB00.html
I think the most important part of that was,
the Japanese automaker was "a little safety deaf" during its probe of the problem. The company was so resistant, LaHood said, that it took a trip from federal safety officials to Japan to "wake them up" to the seriousness of the pedal problems.
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Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys. IP: Logged |
maryjane
Member Posts: 29885
From: Cleveland Tex
Registered: Apr 2001
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| | | quote | Originally posted by 84fiero123:
Actually it was this Don
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| | | quote | Originally posted by 84fiero123:
I wonder just what the problem really is, the computer maybe ??
Anyone else think there is more to this than they are telling us?
Steve
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I'm not saying you're wrong about the computer or the electronics--because I have no idea since I don't have all the facts. I'm just saying the above is what you stated several times.[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 02-02-2010).] IP: Logged |
84fiero123
Member Posts: 8360
From: farmington, maine usa
Registered: Oct 2004
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Then why are they doing this?
| | | quote | Originally posted by hammer18:
i had to go to do some special training on the recall for the Camry’s and part of the recall is an ecm reflash along with pedal modifications and carpet modifications. from what i know and they very well might not be telling me everything that’s changed in the reflash but what i was told is that anytime above 20mph or somewhere around there, if the brake pedal and the gas are applied at the same time it will cut the ignition. |
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Also from another thread,
| | | quote | Originally posted by Fformula88:
Interestingly, there Steve Wozniak (co-founder of Apple) claims that the issue is a software issue and not a hardware issue, and that he can reliably replicate the problem in his Prius (which isn't part of the recall). http://jalopnik.com/5461945...lem-he-can-dupilcate |
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Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.[This message has been edited by 84fiero123 (edited 02-02-2010).] IP: Logged |
maryjane
Member Posts: 29885
From: Cleveland Tex
Registered: Apr 2001
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What is it you want?
Everyone to bow and say you are right? I've already said you may be.
You have insecurity issues or what?
What's the deal?IP: Logged |
84fiero123
Member Posts: 8360
From: farmington, maine usa
Registered: Oct 2004
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| | | quote | Originally posted by maryjane:
What is it you want?
Everyone to bow and say you are right? I've already said you may be.
You have insecurity issues or what?
What's the deal? |
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No Don you do.
I am simply stating the facts as I see them.
They should have put the failsafe into the program in the beginning.
Then they stonewalled and tried to say it was something else.
This is one of the worst cases of fk the buyer I can remember.
Toyota screwed up. But god forbid it is a jap problem, they are perfect. Lets blame someone else.
Steve
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Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys. IP: Logged |
84fiero123
Member Posts: 8360
From: farmington, maine usa
Registered: Oct 2004
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But you and others here are so pissed at GM and the government that you can’t see that this is more than a pedal issue.
And I will keep this thread on page one until they admit it was Toyota Japan that did this.
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Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys. IP: Logged |
Cadillac Jack
Member Posts: 1141
From: Jacksonville, IL, USA
Registered: May 2003
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Interresting. On most cars the "gas pedal" directly controls the air flow to the intake, usually with a cable and linkage, even thought they have PCMs or whatever. No matter how much gas you poor to an engine it will not go very fast if the throttle valve is closed. On my FJ Cruiser I'm pretty sure that's how it works. But mines not being recalled either. So does the gas pedal in the Toyotas merely contol a pontentiometer like a throttle position sensor? Or do they actually control the throttle valve? Does anyone know?IP: Logged |
84fiero123
Member Posts: 8360
From: farmington, maine usa
Registered: Oct 2004
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The pedal simply sends a signal to the computer.
The computer tells the fuel injection system what to do, everything now is controlled by the computer.
Steve ------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys. IP: Logged |
maryjane
Member Posts: 29885
From: Cleveland Tex
Registered: Apr 2001
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| | | quote | Originally posted by 84fiero123:
No Don you do.
I am simply stating the facts as I see them.
They should have put the failsafe into the program in the beginning.
Then they stonewalled and tried to say it was something else.
This is one of the worst cases of fk the buyer I can remember.
Toyota screwed up. But god forbid it is a jap problem, they are perfect. Lets blame someone else.
Steve
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http://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...090907-6-056744.htmlIP: Logged |
84fiero123
Member Posts: 8360
From: farmington, maine usa
Registered: Oct 2004
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Nice tactic Don.
Change the subject when you are losing.
Steve ------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys. IP: Logged |
maryjane
Member Posts: 29885
From: Cleveland Tex
Registered: Apr 2001
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| | | quote | Originally posted by 84fiero123:
Nice tactic Don.
Change the subject when you are losing.
Steve
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I'm "losing"?
My disdain for all foriegn vehicles is well documented, and in this thread, I have expressed no opinion at all. I can be neither wrong or right. The subject I am pointing to with that link, is your unhealthy preoccupation with being right so much.
I've never seen anyone else that it mattered so much, as it does with you Steve. IP: Logged |
84fiero123
Member Posts: 8360
From: farmington, maine usa
Registered: Oct 2004
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As is your dis·dain
for the UAW and GM.
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Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.[This message has been edited by 84fiero123 (edited 02-02-2010).] IP: Logged |
maryjane
Member Posts: 29885
From: Cleveland Tex
Registered: Apr 2001
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Which has absolutely nothing to do with this thread.
As I understand it, this entire thread is about Toyota's recall--unless you have some ulterior personal motive in mind for yourself. IP: Logged |
carnut122
Member Posts: 1954
From: Waleska, GA, USA
Registered: Jan 2004
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"
Still if you cant think to turn the key off, or shift out of drive, you probably dont have the intellegence needed to safely and properly operate a motor vehicle. " (quoted from a previous post)
Am I missing something? Wouldn't turning off the ignition cause the steering wheel to lock up?????[This message has been edited by carnut122 (edited 02-02-2010).] IP: Logged |
84fiero123
Member Posts: 8360
From: farmington, maine usa
Registered: Oct 2004
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You no longer have a key to turn off. It is now a push button that must be depressed and held for at least 3 to 5 seconds to shut the motor down.
When are you people going to get that?
Now the preus is on in this.
Toyota hit by over 100 Prius brake complaints
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Feb 3, 7:12 AM (ET)
By SHINO YUASA
(AP) In this June 5, 2009 file photo, workers give the final checkup on new Prius hybrid vehicles...
Full Image
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TOKYO (AP) - Toyota Motor Corp. has been hit by over 100 complaints in the U.S. and Japan about brake problems with the popular Prius hybrid, the latest in a spate of quality troubles for the automaker as it grapples with massive global recalls.
The Japanese company's sales are being battered in the U.S. - Toyota's biggest market - after recalls of top-selling models to fix a gas pedal that can stick in the depressed position.
The new Prius gas-electric hybrid, which went on sale in Japan and the U.S. in May 2009, is not part of the recalls that extend to Europe and China, covering nearly 4.5 million vehicles.
The U.S. National Highway Traffic Safety Administration has received about 100 complaints involving the brakes of the Prius new model. Two involved crashes resulting in injuries.

Japan's transport ministry said Wednesday it has also received 14 complaints since July last year about brake problems with Toyota's new Prius hybrid.
The 14 complaints included an accident in July 2009, in which a Prius crashed head on into another car at an intersection. Transport ministry official Masaya Ota said two people were slightly injured in the accident.
"The Prius driver in the accident told police that a brake did not work," Ota said. "Other Prius drivers also complained brakes were not so sharp." The complaints in Japan involve the new Prius model, and the vehicles were all made in Japan, he said.
The ministry ordered Toyota, the world's No. 1 automaker, to investigate the complaints. The other 13 cases happened from December to January 2010. Ota said the ministry has yet to receive a formal report on the complaints from Toyota.
Toyota spokeswoman Ririko Takeuchi said the company has received reports about the Prius complaints in North America and in Japan and was now looking into the matter.
Toyota shares plunged 5.7 percent to 3,400 yen ($38) with jittery investors dumping stocks in the wake of the Prius woes in the U.S. and Japan. The benchmark Nikkei stock index edged up just 0.3 percent to 10,404.33 as the drop in Toyota dampened sentiment.
"Investors were worried the latest trouble involving the Prius could get bigger. The problem could pose a bigger question on Toyota's quality and safety," said Kazuhiro Takahashi, market analyst at Daiwa Securities SMBC Co. Ltd.
Also Wednesday, the South Korean government said Toyota's local unit was recalling 444 vehicles over defects in gas pedals and floor mats.
The vehicles were made in North America, and the more than 19,000 Toyota vehicles imported from Japan weren't part of the recall, the Ministry of Land, Transport and Maritime Affairs said in a statement.
Toyota is facing growing criticism that it has not done enough to ensure the safety of its vehicles.
U.S. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood told The Associated Press Tuesday that federal officials had to alert Toyota to the seriousness of the safety issues that eventually led to the recalls.
"They should have taken it seriously from the very beginning when we first started discussing it with them," he said. "Maybe they were a little safety deaf."
LaHood also said the U.S. government was considering civil penalties for Toyota for having dragged its feet on safety concerns.
Toyota executive vice president Shinichi Sasaki acknowledged Tuesday in a Nagoya, Japan, news conference that it took prodding from NHTSA officials for the company to decide on the U.S. recall.
Toyota has long prided itself on sterling vehicle quality and assembly line methods that empowered workers to ensure faultless production.
The latest recall, announced Jan. 21, over sticky gas pedals affects 2.3 million vehicles in the U.S. alone.
Any serious problems emerging in the Prius, Toyota's flagship green car model, is certain to further tarnish its brand.
The Prius, now in its third generation since its 1997 introduction, is the best-selling gas-electric hybrid in the world, racking up a cumulative 1.6 million units sold so far, according to Toyota.
Hybrids, by going back and forth between a gasoline engine and electric motor, tend to offer better mileage in slow-speed and stop-and-go driving that's common in crowded cities.
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http://apnews.excite.com/ar...00203/D9DKMG4G0.html
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Technology is great when it works,
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Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys. IP: Logged |
84fiero123
Member Posts: 8360
From: farmington, maine usa
Registered: Oct 2004
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The prius is only made in Japan so they would be making the pedal in Japan not in Canada.
from Commercial Appeal, The ..
By Yuri Kageyama
TOYOTA, Japan - Toyota's Tsutsumi plant was abuzz with drills and other machinery Friday, with workers brought in from other, less- busy plants to crank out the new Prius to keep up with bursting demand for the hybrid car.
But the Toyota Motor Corp. executive in charge of production said plans to open a U.S. plant to build the third-generation model of the world's top-selling hybrid were still on hold.
The Prius has been rare bright spot not just for money-losing Toyota but also for the overall auto industry, hammered by the global slump and U.S. credit crunch. It was the top-selling model in Japan last month.
Still, worries about the U.S. auto slump since the financial crisis hit last year were too great, executive vice president Takeshi Uchiyamada said. Originally, a Prius plant in Blue Springs, Miss., had been scheduled to be up and running by 2010, but such plans were still frozen.
The plant site is just over an hour's drive away from the eastern edge of Greater Memphis and would be expected to employ people and link with suppliers across a multistate area.
"I am extremely unhappy with the situation," Uchiyamada said. "It all depends on how the economy recovers."
A plant to make the gas-electric hybrid involves more investment than a standard plant because the vehicle has more parts for ecological technology. Going ahead with such an investment is too risky until Toyota monitors the U.S. market longer, he said at a reception for reporters in Toyota, the central Japanese city named after the automaker.
Getting the U.S. hybrid plant off the ground will take at least a year until a decision gets made, and so for some time to come, the Prius will continue to be shipped from this plant in Toyota city, one of just two plants in the world - both in Japan - that make the remodeled Prius.
Toyota officials said the two plants were making about 50,000 Prius cars a month, running at full capacity. The Tsutsumi plant was churning out one Prius every 66 seconds in one line, and every 57 seconds in the other line. Reporters toured the plant Friday.
Overtime is back at Tsutsumi from April - all thanks to the Prius - at a time when other Japanese plants are idle, grappling with layoffs or collapsing.
Workers from other factories from as far away as the southwest island of Kyushu are helping out at Tsutsumi, plant official Takahiro Fujioka said, while declining to say how many. The plant currently has about 5,300 workers.
Originally published by Yuri Kageyama Associated Press .
(c) 2009 Commercial Appeal, The. Provided by ProQuest LLC. All rights Reserved.
A service of YellowBrix, Inc. &&&&&
http://allnurses-central.co...s-plants-398860.html[This message has been edited by 84fiero123 (edited 02-03-2010).] IP: Logged |
84fiero123
Member Posts: 8360
From: farmington, maine usa
Registered: Oct 2004
|
LaHood to call Toyota president about recalls
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Feb 3, 9:51 AM (ET)
By KEN THOMAS
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WASHINGTON (AP) - Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood says he plans to speak with Toyota President Akio Toyoda about the automaker's spate of recalls in the United States. LaHood confirms that the government is investigating potential electrical problems in Toyota vehicles.
LaHood said Wednesday he will call Toyoda in the coming days to make sure the Japanese automaker is aware of the government's concerns about safety issues with Toyota vehicles.
The secretary says the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration will conduct an investigation into electronic throttle control systems and potential electromagnetic interference in the nation's fleet of vehicles.
LaHood says the government "has the resources" to conduct the investigation.
http://apnews.excite.com/ar...00203/D9DKOR280.html------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys. IP: Logged |
84fiero123
Member Posts: 8360
From: farmington, maine usa
Registered: Oct 2004
|
Feds expand probe of pedal parts
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Feb 3, 10:34 AM (ET)
By STEPHEN MANNING
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WASHINGTON (AP) - Federal safety officials have widened their investigation of Toyota's sticky gas pedals to see if the same problem could exist for other automakers.
The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration has sent a letter to CTS, the Indiana company that made the pedals behind Toyota's recall of millions of vehicles.
The safety agency wants to know more about pedals that CTS made for other auto companies.
CTS says it makes pedals for companies like Honda, Nissan and a small number of Ford vehicles in China.
CTS been adamant that the issues are limited to Toyota alone. Other automakers have also said their pedals are based on different designs and aren't at risk for the same problems.
http://apnews.excite.com/ar...00203/D9DKPEV81.html------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys. IP: Logged |
avengador1
Member Posts: 24162
From: Orlando, Florida
Registered: Oct 2001
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How Does a Drive by Wire Throttle Work? Read the articles in the links below.
http://dslr.net/forum/r2373...y-Wire-Throttle-Work
http://alternativefuels.abo.../electhrottlcont.htmIP: Logged |
84fiero123
Member Posts: 8360
From: farmington, maine usa
Registered: Oct 2004
|
Nice links avengador1 but it doesn’t say a lot about the computer, other than it controls everything. And it says there are fail safes that were obviously left out of the Toyota system.
Steve ------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys. IP: Logged |
84fiero123
Member Posts: 8360
From: farmington, maine usa
Registered: Oct 2004
|
LaHood says don't drive recalled Toyotas til fixed
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Feb 3, 11:21 AM (ET)
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WASHINGTON (AP) - Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood is telling owners of recalled Toyotas to stop driving the vehicles and get them fixed.
LaHood's warning came Wednesday in testimony before a House Appropriations subcommittee on transportation. LaHood says his advice to owners is to "stop driving it. Take it to a Toyota dealer because they believe they have a fix for it."
Toyota's most recent recall in the United States affects 2.3 million vehicles with the potential for sticking gas pedals.
LaHood told reporters earlier in the day that Toyota owners should contact their dealer immediately and "exercise caution until repairs can be made."
http://apnews.excite.com/ar...00203/D9DKQ53G4.html
Toyota pays dealers up to $75,000 for longer hours
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Feb 3, 11:47 AM (ET)
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DETROIT (AP) - Toyota Motor Corp. is giving U.S. dealers payments of up to $75,000 to help win back customers' trust in the wake of a massive safety recall.
In a letter obtained by The Associated Press, Toyota group vice president Bob Carter thanks dealers for extending service hours and providing car washes and other services. Carter says the payments will help with those measures.
Toyota recalled 2.3 million vehicles in the U.S. last month because their accelerator pedals may stick and cause crashes. The automaker is sending dealers parts to repair the pedals this week.
Toyota is sending checks this week based on the number of cars each dealer sold last year. Dealers who sold fewer than 500 cars will get $7,500. Dealers who sold more than 4,000 will get $75,000.
http://apnews.excite.com/ar...00203/D9DKQH9O1.html
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Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys. IP: Logged |
Mickey_Moose
Member Posts: 4011
From: Edmonton, AB, Canada
Registered: May 2001
|
It does not surprise me that Toyota tried to keep this under the rug so to speak. Many years ago (about 10) I went on a Toyota training course, the instructor there made a comment about how protective Toyota is about their products. They (engineers, upper management) don't like to see Toyota toy car on their sides as they feel that it could give an impression that their products 'could tip' (a bit over board if you ask me), they always had these cool remote control cars of some of the models, but only 'authorized' people where aloowed to drive in case they flipped. Anyways, they have always tried to keep any recalls quiet, they would do the work when a customer would bring in their car for service and at times have called customer's and offered a free check up so they could deal with a 'recall' - they didn't even call the notices recalls (I think it was something like a tech bulletin, but it's beens some time and I don't exactly remember anymore). This always rubbed me the wrong way that they were more concerned about their 'image' than people being made aware of potential problems - but I guess this strategy has worked for them as they are the #1 seller nowdays...IP: Logged |
82-T/A [At Work]
Member Posts: 4048
From: Cooper City, Florida USA
Registered: Aug 2002
|
| | | quote | Originally posted by Cadillac Jack:
Interresting. On most cars the "gas pedal" directly controls the air flow to the intake, usually with a cable and linkage, even thought they have PCMs or whatever. No matter how much gas you poor to an engine it will not go very fast if the throttle valve is closed. On my FJ Cruiser I'm pretty sure that's how it works. But mines not being recalled either. So does the gas pedal in the Toyotas merely contol a pontentiometer like a throttle position sensor? Or do they actually control the throttle valve? Does anyone know? |
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Almost all brand new cars that are worth at least 20,000 or newer have Drive By Wire.
There is no "cable" connecting the gas pedal and the throttle body.
You push down on the gas pedal and then it tells the car's ECM how fast you'd like to go. The car then runs through a series of checks and If / Then statements and refrences a set of values and then passes it on to the electronic actuator which controlls the actual opening of the throttle.
In the truest sense... if a car's computer was hacked, it could open the throttle full on, and there's nothing you can do about it.
In many new cars too... the transmission shifter (for an automatic) is nothing but a selector switch and is not physically connected to the transmission. The SAME goes for the ignition button and ON / OFF switch (like the new Nissans which have keyless ignition).
In that case, you could effectively program the computer to kill someone. The ONLY thing in your control would be the steering wheel and the brake, but you'd be UNABLE to turn the car off, or shift it into neutral. (as would be the case of the Nissane Rogue).
Scary stuff honestly. With a lot of these new cars (GM specifically) that have the ability to re-flash the computer from On-Star (remotely)... it's only a matter of time I think before malicious hackers begin hacking into people's ECMs. As far as I know, there's no real effective security to stop it other than just the "unknown" of the source code that's being used.
I would doubt seriously if your FJ has a cable driven throttle body either... I'm sure it's probably DBW.------------------
Todd,
2008 Jeep Patriot Limited 4x2
2002 Ford Explorer Sport 2dr 4x2
2002 Ford Crown Victoria LX
1987 Pontiac Fiero SE / V6
1973 Volkswagen Type-2 Transporter IP: Logged |
carnut122
Member Posts: 1954
From: Waleska, GA, USA
Registered: Jan 2004
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| | | quote | Originally posted by Mickey_Moose:
It does not surprise me that Toyota tried to keep this under the rug so to speak..... Anyways, they have always tried to keep any recalls quiet, they would do the work when a customer would bring in their car for service and at times have called customer's and offered a free check up so they could deal with a 'recall' - they didn't even call the notices recalls (I think it was something like a tech bulletin, but it's beens some time and I don't exactly remember anymore).
... |
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That's exactly what I thought when they first recalled vehicles for "floor mats." Get the car in for floor mats and then fix the real problem on the sly. Funny how it's working out that way.
IP: Logged |
84fiero123
Member Posts: 8360
From: farmington, maine usa
Registered: Oct 2004
|
| | | quote | Originally posted by Fformula88:
Interestingly, there Steve Wozniak (co-founder of Apple) claims that the issue is a software issue and not a hardware issue, and that he can reliably replicate the problem in his Prius (which isn't part of the recall). http://jalopnik.com/5461945...lem-he-can-dupilcate |
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Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys. IP: Logged |
hammer18
Member Posts: 187
From: Maplewood Minnesota
Registered: Jun 2007
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only some are push button start(only v-6s are available with it i believe and its an option). most still have a key.
IP: Logged |
82-T/A [At Work]
Member Posts: 4048
From: Cooper City, Florida USA
Registered: Aug 2002
|
WOW!
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/..._bi_ge/toyota_recall
It looks like Toyota now has major problems with their brakes. If I'm reading this right, it appears that the brakes on the PRIUS are also computer controlled and don't appear to be directly connected to the braking system:
| | | quote | Complaints about braking problems in the Prius — the world's top-selling gas-electric hybrid — have been reported in the U.S. and Japan, combining to some 180, and come amid a recall of nearly 4.5 million vehicles for faulty gas pedals.
The flaw, which requires a software programming change to fix, makes the brakes momentarily unresponsive. Toyota was checking if there were reports of similar problems with other hybrid models though they use a different braking system from the Prius. |
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What in the WORLD?! This must be like this because of the unique braking system they use to reclaim lost energy. I'd rather take regular brakes than something that's not connected.
Wow... this is totally messed up. Toyota is refusing to issue a recall on Prius's in America (but they've issued them elsewhere). However, the transportation ministry (I assume in Japan because we don't call any of our departments "ministries") is urging them to do so.------------------
Todd,
2008 Jeep Patriot Limited 4x2
2002 Ford Explorer Sport 2dr 4x2
2002 Ford Crown Victoria LX
1987 Pontiac Fiero SE / V6
1973 Volkswagen Type-2 Transporter IP: Logged |
dsnover
Member Posts: 689
From: Cherryville, PA USA
Registered: Apr 2006
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I'd imagine that most hybrids that implement a regenerative braking system have computer controlled brakes. It couldn't be any other way, really.
Despite the issues that Toyota is having, they still posted a profit....Time will tell if this inflicts permanent harm to the brand, or, if there is overblown media hype (as the case with Audi was).
Drive by wire is also a way of reducing emissions, by allowing more precise control of the air/fuel mixture. A manual throttle can be snapped open or closed, and there is milliseconds before the computer can adjust the injectors, resulting in periodic lean/rich conditions. The computer controlling the throttle plate eliminates those variances in mixture. Again, you can thank the government for this, not simply technology for technologies' sake.[This message has been edited by dsnover (edited 02-04-2010).] IP: Logged |
Mickey_Moose
Member Posts: 4011
From: Edmonton, AB, Canada
Registered: May 2001
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| | | quote | Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:
In that case, you could effectively program the computer to kill someone. The ONLY thing in your control would be the steering wheel and the brake, but you'd be UNABLE to turn the car off, or shift it into neutral. (as would be the case of the Nissane Rogue).
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Hmmmm...gives me an idea - put together a 'kill kit' and sell them for a fortune on eBay. 
...yea, that's the ticket - a toggle switch and some wiring and instructions on how to splice into the fuel pumps power feed (or ignition) - trouble starts, hit the switch and kill the motor...IP: Logged |
82-T/A [At Work]
Member Posts: 4048
From: Cooper City, Florida USA
Registered: Aug 2002
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| | | quote | Originally posted by dsnover:
I'd imagine that most hybrids that implement a regenerative braking system have computer controlled brakes. It couldn't be any other way, really.
Despite the issues that Toyota is having, they still posted a profit....Time will tell if this inflicts permanent harm to the brand, or, if there is overblown media hype (as the case with Audi was).
Drive by wire is also a way of reducing emissions, by allowing more precise control of the air/fuel mixture. A manual throttle can be snapped open or closed, and there is milliseconds before the computer can adjust the injectors, resulting in periodic lean/rich conditions. The computer controlling the throttle plate eliminates those variances in mixture. Again, you can thank the government for this, not simply technology for technologies' sake.
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I would disagree that DBW was done for emissions control. I'm sure it does benefit emissions somewhat, but it's been stated that most of this was done for reliability (although I fail to see that) and because it's less expensive. By having DBW, every car can now come with Traction Control and Cruise Control. In the past, when a car had traction control, it required a special seperate computer that tied into the ABS system to modulate brake pulses under slippage. With cruise control, it required a pentometer anyway, as well as an actuator that controlled the gas pedal, in addition to a cruise control computer, a vacuum canister or some other kind of device.
With Drive By Wire... Cruise Control and Traction Control are NOTHING but a few additional lines of code in the ECM. Thus eliminating 500-600 dollars worth of equipment.
Just not my cup of tea though... I like having COMPLETE control of my car. I do not like giving up control to a computer. As a computer programmer for 14 years, I know that bugs are inevitable... unless you check for all conditions, sometimes something will be missed and can cause something to go wrong.
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Todd,
2008 Jeep Patriot Limited 4x2
2002 Ford Explorer Sport 2dr 4x2
2002 Ford Crown Victoria LX
1987 Pontiac Fiero SE / V6
1973 Volkswagen Type-2 Transporter IP: Logged |
dsnover
Member Posts: 689
From: Cherryville, PA USA
Registered: Apr 2006
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| | | quote | Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:
I would disagree that DBW was done for emissions control. I'm sure it does benefit emissions somewhat, but it's been stated that most of this was done for reliability (although I fail to see that) and because it's less expensive. By having DBW, every car can now come with Traction Control and Cruise Control. In the past, when a car had traction control, it required a special seperate computer that tied into the ABS system to modulate brake pulses under slippage. With cruise control, it required a pentometer anyway, as well as an actuator that controlled the gas pedal, in addition to a cruise control computer, a vacuum canister or some other kind of device.
With Drive By Wire... Cruise Control and Traction Control are NOTHING but a few additional lines of code in the ECM. Thus eliminating 500-600 dollars worth of equipment.
Just not my cup of tea though... I like having COMPLETE control of my car. I do not like giving up control to a computer. As a computer programmer for 14 years, I know that bugs are inevitable... unless you check for all conditions, sometimes something will be missed and can cause something to go wrong.
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I agree that I prefer to have control over the throttle via a mechanical cable. But, I have to disagree about the primary reason for DBW (or perhaps more appropriately, (E)lectronic (T)hrottle (C)ontrol). The cruise control and traction control are certainly made simpler by virtue of electronic throttle control, but both were available long before ETC, in the form of dropping ignition pulses, retarding timing, applying the brakes, etc. I believe an honest evaluation shows that this has more to do with increasingly tight emissions and fuel economy standards, and the side effect is easier implementation of cruise and traction controls. The public demands higher performance and comfort, and the government demands better fuel economy and emissions. Tighter control over the fuel and air mixture allows both. As Big Brother demands even more, expect electronic controls to get much more invasive, and at some point, cars to get less powerful, smaller, or both.IP: Logged |
blackrams
Member Posts: 14895
From: Frankfort, KY, USA
Registered: Feb 2003
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| | | quote | Originally posted by dsnover:
As Big Brother demands even more, expect electronic controls to get much more invasive, and at some point, cars to get less powerful, smaller, or both. |
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Say it ain't so. I guess we'll have to address that issue election day. 
RonIP: Logged |
84fiero123
Member Posts: 8360
From: farmington, maine usa
Registered: Oct 2004
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I personally don’t care why it was done.
What I care about is that it has the proper redundant safeguards in place when it is built and not after a few hundred people have died.
In this case with this manufacturer none of the above was done.
Obviously.
I just got off the phone with a friend who’s brother has been a commercial pilot all his life.
He was scared to death when they went to fly by wire, 20 some years ago.
But they had redundant safeguards that Toyota has obviously forget to put in.
Steve ------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys. IP: Logged |
maryjane
Member Posts: 29885
From: Cleveland Tex
Registered: Apr 2001
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What redundant circuit was used with cars with throttle cables such as our Fieros?IP: Logged |
84fiero123
Member Posts: 8360
From: farmington, maine usa
Registered: Oct 2004
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I trust a cable more than a computer.
What one do you trust more Don?
------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.[This message has been edited by 84fiero123 (edited 02-04-2010).] IP: Logged |
cliffw
Member Posts: 17310
From: Kerrville, Texas, USA
Registered: Jun 2003
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| | | quote | Originally posted by 84fiero123:
What I care about is that it has the proper redundant safeguards in place when it is built and not after a few hundred people have died.
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Hmm, only 19 deaths have been suggested to be related to the Toyota defect. Firestone tires killed way more many than that. How many were killed by Crown Vics catching on fire ? Let me rephrase that. How many police officers were killed by Crown Vics catching on fire ? More than 30. The 05 to 07 Corvettes killed 19 people.
I don't remember you bastardizing GN when they refused the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration's request to voluntarily recall 4.7 million Pick Up trucks.
What gives Steve ?[This message has been edited by cliffw (edited 02-04-2010).] IP: Logged |
FrugalFiero
Member Posts: 2393
From: Where cars n trucks used to be made in Michigan
Registered: Nov 2003
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Looks like Toyota thinks the fix is to increase spring tension.
http://abclocal.go.com/wjrt/video?id=7256387[This message has been edited by FrugalFiero (edited 02-04-2010).] IP: Logged |
84fiero123
Member Posts: 8360
From: farmington, maine usa
Registered: Oct 2004
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But the computer said…………..
Works real well when you are flying down the highway at a 100 MPH
Keep buying those Toyotas Cliff.
Steve ------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys. IP: Logged |
84fiero123
Member Posts: 8360
From: farmington, maine usa
Registered: Oct 2004
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Explain to me please how a sticking pedal pulls itself to wide open?
quote
Originally posted by Fformula88:
Interestingly, there Steve Wozniak (co-founder of Apple) claims that the issue is a software issue and not a hardware issue, and that he can reliably replicate the problem in his Prius (which isn't part of the recall). http://jalopnik.com/5461945...lem-he-can-dupilcate
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Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys. IP: Logged |
FrugalFiero
Member Posts: 2393
From: Where cars n trucks used to be made in Michigan
Registered: Nov 2003
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| | | quote | Originally posted by 84fiero123:
Explain to me please how a sticking pedal pulls itself to wide open?
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As I said I have my doubts. I think it is computer (code) related too.
Toyota is doing the EXACT SAME thing any other auto company would do - downplay the issue. American auto companies have done this SOOOOO many times it is normal operating procedure.
Steve, I mentioned your Chrysler tranny issue on the first page of this post to remind you - I can guarantee you Chrysler didn't come out with any sort of recall on your tranny problem. They just grenade and YOU pay if it is out of warranty.
I bet there are a HELLUVA lot more Chrysler trannys grenading (which I bet could cause you to lose control of your vehicle) then there are Toyotas accelerating on their own.[This message has been edited by FrugalFiero (edited 02-04-2010).] IP: Logged |
