My name is Roger Thelin and I have been making various kits for fires for years. My website went down without my knowledge about a year ago and I am attempting to restore my business, so here is my spiel.
“Fieros and f23 transaxles are made for each other. Ecotek engines are new, powerful, long lasting, light, and cheap. Thelinsells solves the problem of getting them all to fit together. Our bracket system can be used for the transmission or the engine or both. Heavy gauge sheet steel is formed to jigs to assure accurate fits. This produces the strongest, lightest brackets possible. Other products include shift correction kit, hydraulic clutch adapter and munson head light conversions.”
I can be contacted at 352-514-0210 thelinsells.com
Thanks for your time!
-Roger
[This message has been edited by Roger Thelin (edited 02-16-2018).]
can't wait to see your new website. Many of us believe that the Ecotec is one of the best upgrade swaps out there. An affordable kit with several trans options will fill a much needed void. I know you've been around for a while, and I'm suprised that this swap has not been more popular. Good luck
[This message has been edited by qwikgta (edited 12-30-2016).]
Roger, welcome to the best Fiero resource in the world. Your name is mentioned often here but many of the owners that want to do an Ecotec swap are scared off by the fabrication work involved. With your plug and play methodology you have solved the puzzle. On the wiring side it is also now possible to buy a plug and play harness with a reprogrammed PCM from other vendors. Since the mechanical and electrical challenges have been solved I am sure that we will be seeing more Ecotec swaps but some clarification is in order. AFAIK the only Ecotec swaps that have been done are for the earlier engines not the ones with electronic throttle control and direct injection. If we clear up this point then swaps for the larger more powerful Ecotecs can be completed. There are supercharged and turbo versions and the engine has the capability to be modified to over 1000 horsepower for race applications. Here is a video of my favorite Ecotec owner. Not a Fiero but a 6 second run with four cylinders https://youtu.be/yyTNwpi0dVs
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
[This message has been edited by Dennis LaGrua (edited 12-30-2016).]
This will be a good source of info and parts for my next Fiero project. I would like to put an Ecotech in a 84 convertible I have sitting in the barn. I came across a Cobalt with a 5 speed combo at a local car dealership impound yard and am going to try to get it. Dennis has seen the Fiero and I think this car will be a great candidate for the swap. I am VERY concerned about the wiring part, I really don't want to change the cluster and gas pedal so forth and so on. I would just like a modern powerplant in the car that will give more horses than the original 2.5.
------------------ Mark Hoagland 86 1/2 GT 3.4 5-speed 355 nose and tailights REAL bright yellow
This will be a good source of info and parts for my next Fiero project. I would like to put an Ecotech in a 84 convertible I have sitting in the barn. I came across a Cobalt with a 5 speed combo at a local car dealership impound yard and am going to try to get it. Dennis has seen the Fiero and I think this car will be a great candidate for the swap. I am VERY concerned about the wiring part, I really don't want to change the cluster and gas pedal so forth and so on. I would just like a modern powerplant in the car that will give more horses than the original 2.5.
If you are worried about wiring; plug and play harness/PCM sets are available. With Thelin's mechanical parts and a ready made harness the swap should be a breeze. Just check on what versions of Ecotec engines the harnesses fit. It might be just the pre drive by wire versions. If I were to do an Ecotec swap my preference would be for the supercharged LSJ or turbo LNJ version. Some of those engines put out close to 300 HP.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
If you are worried about wiring; plug and play harness/PCM sets are available. With Thelin's mechanical parts and a ready made harness the swap should be a breeze. Just check on what versions of Ecotec engines the harnesses fit. It might be just the pre drive by wire versions. If I were to do an Ecotec swap my preference would be for the supercharged LSJ or turbo LNJ version. Some of those engines put out close to 300 HP.
There are plug and play harness/PCM sets for the LNJ? Please point me.
If I were to do an Ecotec swap my preference would be for the supercharged LSJ or turbo LNJ version. Some of those engines put out close to 300 HP.
Mine would be for the LK9 Ecotec in Saabs, more specifically the B207R version that had 210hp and could be had with an F40 6-speed. The 220 lb·ft of torque from 2500 to 4000 rpm would make it a fun daily driver. Although the Saab-only "Trionic" ECM might pose a challenge. I wonder if Hirsch Performance (http://www.hirsch-performance.ch/) can reprogram a Trionic ECM for an engine swap?
It appears that if you stay away from the direct injection versions of these engines, stand alone wiring harnesses are readily available. You can even use the drive by wire function with some of them.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
On Ebay, I also found at least one merchant who sells complete kits of used parts to add an LSJ supercharger to an LE5 or L61: http://stores.ebay.ca/jnrchevy/ .
GM Performance Parts used to sell "Stage 1" and "Stage 2" kits that could bring an otherwise stock LSJ in a Cobalt SS up to 241hp. Oh, and I believe the supercharger's snout points to a Fiero's stock air intake on the driver's side, eliminating the need for body modifications on the passenger's side to ensure the engine is fed with cool air and not engine compartment air.
241hp... Hmm... Looks like the Ecotec is the new 3800... if someone starts making Ecotec mounts for the 4T45 and F35 transmissions.
[This message has been edited by Hidalgo (edited 01-09-2017).]
I have the engine brackets.I also have the dog adapter kit.This way about 90% of the job is done.Almost all of the proper alignments are done.At this time I only have brackets for f23 transaxle.R.T.
Yes the ecotek/f23 are the perfect units to swap to fiero.As G.M. improves these units you win.Put them into your car now,and when you tire of it ,pick a new one with the power you want.G.M. started making them in about 97 and are still at it.Up to about 350hp for now ,and more to come.Light powerfull, cheap and durable.Won't mess with the cars balance eccept in a positive way.Thanks for your comments.R.T.
Just to clarify, when we say stand alone we mean a harness and ecm for one of the ecotec engines that allows dispensing with all the body module pcm silliness?
Just to clarify, when we say stand alone we mean a harness and ecm for one of the ecotec engines that allows dispensing with all the body module pcm silliness?
I sure would hope so. Otherwise, I don't see what the point of buying them would be.
[This message has been edited by Hidalgo (edited 01-09-2017).]
The only cars that had the Ecotec and the F40 were Saabs. I could be wrong, but I don't think there will ever be tons of 6-speed manual Ecotec Saabs in salvage yards. I'm not saying nobody should ever make them. I'm just saying the F35 and 4T45 are much more common, so it would be wiser to make brackets for those two first. The F40s in Pontiac G6s don't have the correct bellhousing for the Ecotec.
Just to clarify, when we say stand alone we mean a harness and ecm for one of the ecotec engines that allows dispensing with all the body module pcm silliness?
Stand alone implies plug and play. The only hangup would be to have a PCM that can work without all of the original expected inputs. You can also buy these as well but no one has solved the plug and play for the direct injection Ecotec engines as yet. BTW, on a separate note, Roger has said that he still makes the Munson headlight system. If he would post some pics here there may be some interest in this product. ------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
[This message has been edited by Dennis LaGrua (edited 01-10-2017).]
The only cars that had the Ecotec and the F40 were Saabs. I could be wrong, but I don't think there will ever be tons of 6-speed manual Ecotec Saabs in salvage yards. I'm not saying nobody should ever make them. I'm just saying the F35 and 4T45 are much more common, so it would be wiser to make brackets for those two first. The F40s in Pontiac G6s don't have the correct bellhousing for the Ecotec.
There is one sitting in a Pick n Pull in Va Bch right now. Went and looked at it a few days ago. Oil pan has a hole in it, other than that its looks to be in perfect shape. Someone jacked with the shifter knob but from the motor point of view it looked good.
Do I understand correctly in that you make F23 mounts? Are they only to go along with an ecotec or are they blank so can be drilled as necessary to fight other motors too?
"Does this product allow me to swap an LNF into a vehicle which was not originally equipped with one without having to additionally swap the LNF Body Control Module, harness and its sensors?
Your product listing states, 'This harness is made to be used w/ an E39 GM controller.' Does this mean in addition to the ECM that comes with your product?"
Their answer was:
"Yes sir - these are stand alone for hot rods, boats, buggies, etc. In terms of the ECM - the E39 is what we use and what is included in this package.
Build time on these is 3-5 days!
-Shaun"
That means to me there is a stand-alone setup for an LNF. Or am I going off the rails here?
Do I understand correctly in that you make F23 mounts? Are they only to go along with an ecotec or are they blank so can be drilled as necessary to fight other motors too?
mr-corean;In any swap like this you start with the transaxle.Once it is in the right position ,then mount everything else to it.So bolt on the right brackets.Screw on some vibration adsorbing pieces.Plug the motor of your choice.And that's it. The easiest way I know of to shoe horn a v6 in a fiero is to move the front crossmember forward.Now youv'e got room for everything,and the subframe gets stronger.With my kit and instructions,this can be done in a weekend.Please call for prices,or help.R.T.352-375-8259/352514-0210(cell)
Before I keep going, let me know if you want me to take this to PM to clean up your thread. Reason I haven't already is there is always someone with the same question.
When you are talking a v6, the first thing I think of is a 60* v6 such as the stock 2.8, the 3.4 PR, or the 3800 as the most common Fiero v6s. With all of those you can mount them to a stock 282 and would obviously not move the tranny at all. The way I understand it, the f23 uses the same axles as stock and as such would basically mount in a location that would also be very close to stock. The obvious difference, that I don't know what it is, is the difference of the distance between where the tranny mounts up and the face of the bell housing compared to the face of the 282. If that's the same then most of the vendors on here doing motor mounts would already be able to work with your setup for the f23 as well as the stock tranny. I am hoping that is the case although I kind of doubt I will be so lucky.
I'm rereading what I just wrote and it makes sense to me since I know what I'm talking about, but if my ideas are coming out on paper all convoluted let me know and I'll try to reword.
The only cars that had the Ecotec and the F40 were Saabs. I could be wrong, but I don't think there will ever be tons of 6-speed manual Ecotec Saabs in salvage yards. I'm not saying nobody should ever make them. I'm just saying the F35 and 4T45 are much more common, so it would be wiser to make brackets for those two first. The F40s in Pontiac G6s don't have the correct bellhousing for the Ecotec.
I like to use www.car-part.com for hard to find parts. It has lots of search parameters to help narrow your search. I found a 2005 Saab 9-3 with the B207R (210 hp engine, and 6 speed trans) a few hours drive from me in minutes.
Mrcorean;Yes you are correct.My method of working has been to use one starting point,and do all referencing from that one point.People are using my parts with other engines than ECOTEC.
I like to use www.car-part.com for hard to find parts. It has lots of search parameters to help narrow your search. I found a 2005 Saab 9-3 with the B207R (210 hp engine, and 6 speed trans) a few hours drive from me in minutes.
Oh, I know about car-part.com. I use it all the time. I didn't say that powertrain combination was impossible to find. All I meant was that it wasn't nearly as common as the LE5 matched with a 4T45-E.
I like to use www.car-part.com for hard to find parts. It has lots of search parameters to help narrow your search. I found a 2005 Saab 9-3 with the B207R (210 hp engine, and 6 speed trans) a few hours drive from me in minutes.
One thing to keep in mind with this combo is the Saab aspect. I have one of the 9-3's with big T motor and an f40. I love the car to death. The issue though is everything in the car is computerized and hooked to everything else through a can bus system. Doing almost any mods to the car requires using a tech 2 to update the computer to tell it what is going on. The motor and tranny are awesome. The computer is absolute hell. Even though the car is a GM vehicle, only the caddy dealers will even look at it because of the can bus system and the fact that they use tech 2 on their cars as well. An example of how bad the tentacles of the computer are intertwined through the car. When I got the car the driver's side window wasn't working. Nor was the horn. I went to the junkyard and got a nice replacement window switch and installed it. Didn't work. Did some research and it turns out I need to use the tech 2 to divorce the switch from the old car, divorce my switch from my car, then marry the new switch to my car. Also turns out the reason the horn didn't work was the previous owner removed the fuse for the horn. Reason was because the lock system also, at some point, went through that window switch so the car was constantly setting off the alarm because it thought it was being broken into since the switch was bad. Even while driving. Rather than hear the horn all the time they were just doing without. There were many other other examples, but all are painful. And that's when just repairing the original car and not trying to swap it into another.
One of my favorite rants is the electronic web that is being overlaid onto the hard parts of the modern automobile.I will be the first to admit it would be nearly impossible to get a clean,powerful and economical engine without an ecm.But I find no need to tie the headlight function to the door computer to the engine.And then plug into this system control pieces that will predictably go bad so that after five years or so the car is rendered undrivable.This is one reason for my interest fiero.I can pick and choose the stuff I put into one of the safest chassis to come out of G.M.I chose ecotec and f23 because I felt them to be complementary to that chassis.Now I can have a modern car I can fix.When I'm designing I usually make three consecutive prototypes be fore picking the best.Then I do a run of four or five and take the nicest for myself.Over the years production gets better and better.Yes to one degree or another the SAAB thing is whats happening all over the automotive industry.We are headed toward five year cars. I hope my small effort can slow that slide into obsolescence.
