I got a chance to take some pictures of the axles.
The intermeadiate shaft mounts to the LS motor mount point with an adapter plate.
The half shafts are what you would expect. 6T splines on one end, Fiero on the other. The extreme axle angles are because the cradle is just sitting on a pallet. They aren't that bad in the car.
Dan if you can share the details on the your setup would be great! I am looking to do the same. PM sent.
What flywheel did you use?
My goal is to have everything documented in this build thread so anyone can use what they like and ignore what they don't. I am trying to keep up with the documentation, but I am relying on all of you to keep me honest and call me out when I skip over something. What have I missed so far??
The flexplate is from the LS4 (which is a 3 lug converter). We have a 4 lug converter so we drilled the flexplate. I think you can get a 3-lug 6T70/75 converter but I haven't figured out the part number yet.
Excellent stuff! Thanx for the water manifold pics - is this something your going to offer or would you be willing to share your CAD files for it?
Demand has been so high for the water manifold we will probably throw a few in the CNC. I want to pull together all the GM part numbers needed to make the "shorty" front cover package so you don't have to buy an LS4 to steal the parts off of. Let me also price how much we have into the water manifold, the billet block and the AN fittings can get pricey....
Does anyone have any interest in the adapter plate (engine to trans)?
Does anyone have any interest in the adapter plate (engine to trans)?
Would I be right to guess the adapter plate could be used to bolt up other motors? If so, the question becomes is the trans controller going to be capable of stand alone operation for non LS applications? Not trying to pester, just curious...
This is an excellent project! With the choice of F40 manual or 6TXX for fiero projects ... we are spoiled for choice!
On the coolant manifold and the question of AN fittings I know Earls, Fragola, Russell and others make screw-in pipe/barb fittings that users could buy as an alternative for AN fittings to reduce costs and this would allow 1 unit for all.
Unfortunately I am not located in the US so a drawing of the trans to engine adapter, starter mount and pocket would be great if it was available.
Is the gear position control and panel display waterproof?
Will the PCS TCM-2600 have similar adaptability and functions as the PCS TCM-2000?
Demand has been so high for the water manifold we will probably throw a few in the CNC. I want to pull together all the GM part numbers needed to make the "shorty" front cover package so you don't have to buy an LS4 to steal the parts off of. Let me also price how much we have into the water manifold, the billet block and the AN fittings can get pricey....
Does anyone have any interest in the adapter plate (engine to trans)?
I'd be interested in the adapter plate for sure. I'd also be interested in the modifications done to the 6T75 bellhousing.
If I sent you my 6T75 bellhousing, would it be possible for you to make the modification for me?
I'd also be interested in the part number for that converter. I noticed that the 6T70 converter is 3 lug like the LS4; as we all know, the 6T70 shares the same belhousing bolt pattern as well. Could the 6T70 converter be used?
Excellent question. The transmission that has been used throughout this build so far has an unknown past. We were basically just using it for mockup, design, and system validation. As soon as we were comfortable that everything on the vehicle, engine, and transmission was functioning properly (put a few miles on it, calibrated the transmission, made sure all the cooling worked, etc) we tore the whole thing apart.
We are now going to begin phase 2 of the project which involves durability testing of the transmission. We will have, on Monday or Tuesday, a brand new (technically factory GM reman) 6T75. We went down to the local GM dealership and ordered a 6T75 for a 2010 GMC Acadia. We will have a known good, 0 mile, stock transmission. Starting with a stock transmission, we are going to lay the power to it and see what breaks. When something does break, I will post it here along with the solution to make that part stronger. We have a chassis dyno so I will also be able to post exactly how much power we are working with. This is a slightly used LS2. If we are having a hard time breaking the trans, we will add some upgrades to the motor.
Dan
Did you order the 2010 6T75 due to the wave plate issues with pre-2009 transmissions as documented on Wikipedia?
EDIT: Added some more info.
[This message has been edited by GXP25 (edited 03-22-2013).]
Did you have to make any modifications to the frame rails or shock tower? That is of concern to me as I have an 88, whose shock towers intrude into the engine compartment even more than the earlier cars.
I never even considered that an LS engine was do-able in my car. I may have to rethink that.
Originally posted by 81 4.9L X-11: Would I be right to guess the adapter plate could be used to bolt up other motors? If so, the question becomes is the trans controller going to be capable of stand alone operation for non LS applications? Not trying to pester, just curious...
Cheers
The adaper plate allows the 6T70/75 with the bellhousing for the high feature V6 to bolt to the LS bell pattern. I am not sure what other GM motors this would allow you to bolt up to.
The transmission controller is designed to control the 6T70/75 behind ANY engine. This includes any LS motor, any fuel injected motor, any carbureted motor, or even an electric motor...It is truly a standalone 6T controller. If you can figure out the mechanical side, we can handle the electrical side...
This is an excellent project! With the choice of F40 manual or 6TXX for fiero projects ... we are spoiled for choice!
On the coolant manifold and the question of AN fittings I know Earls, Fragola, Russell and others make screw-in pipe/barb fittings that users could buy as an alternative for AN fittings to reduce costs and this would allow 1 unit for all.
Unfortunately I am not located in the US so a drawing of the trans to engine adapter, starter mount and pocket would be great if it was available.
Is the gear position control and panel display waterproof?
Will the PCS TCM-2600 have similar adaptability and functions as the PCS TCM-2000?
You could use barb type fittings if you prefer with the water manifold.
The gear display is not waterproof, but the motor control box (the one I have in the trunk) is. Do you need a waterproof display? What are you working on? We may have some options.
The TCM2600 is a slightly different product than the TCM2000 but they do have similar features. Is there something specific you were looking for? Maybe I can elaborate more once I know what you need.
I'd be interested in the adapter plate for sure. I'd also be interested in the modifications done to the 6T75 bellhousing.
If I sent you my 6T75 bellhousing, would it be possible for you to make the modification for me?
I'd also be interested in the part number for that converter. I noticed that the 6T70 converter is 3 lug like the LS4; as we all know, the 6T70 shares the same belhousing bolt pattern as well. Could the 6T70 converter be used?
If you sent me a bellhousing I could do the mod. It only takes a minute so you would probably spend more effort shipping it to me than just cutting it yourself. In any event, send me a PM if you want to send me a bell.
I think the 3 lug 6T70 converter could be used. I have one and really don't see any difference besides the numbers of lugs.
Did you order the 2010 6T75 due to the wave plate issues with pre-2009 transmissions as documented on Wikipedia?
EDIT: Added some more info.
I really have no good reason on the 2010. It just "felt" right. Not too new, not too old. I am aware of the pre 2009 wave plate issue. However, I believe that it has to do with the build date of the transmission more than the model year it is supposed to go into. For example, if you walk into a dealer today and buy a reman'ed transmission for a 2008 Acadia, they are going to build it without the old wave plate issue. However, if you are searching junk yards, I would try to get a 2010 or newer....
Did you have to make any modifications to the frame rails or shock tower? That is of concern to me as I have an 88, whose shock towers intrude into the engine compartment even more than the earlier cars.
I never even considered that an LS engine was do-able in my car. I may have to rethink that.
Thanks!
I have never looked at the 88 engine compartment. We did not have to modify the frame rails or shock towers but it is really tight.
Originally posted by Dan86GT: I have never looked at the 88 engine compartment. We did not have to modify the frame rails or shock towers but it is really tight.
Thanks. That's at least a little bit encouraging.
If yours didn't requre any modding then maybe an 88 will only require minor "massaging".
Got the car back together with the new transmission.
As professional engineers we followed the industry standard for new vehicle break-in and shake-down. This highly technical procedure involves running the snot out of the car until something breaks. Check.
We pushed an oring out of a trans cooler line resulting in a trail of smoke and fluid. Should be a minor fix and the trans was not hurt.
Here is a video of some part throttle upshifts. Throttle is about 50% in first, 70% in second, and 80-90% in third.
The car is now a daily driver and don't have much to report. Hopefully the paddle shifters will go in this week - I will post a pic when they are installed.
Pricing for the TCM2600 has been set at $600 retail. This includes the controller and the harness. You may be able to find it cheaper through one of our dealers. We are just cleaning up the software and working through all the little issues so by the time it is released it will work flawlessly.
The car is now a daily driver and don't have much to report. Hopefully the paddle shifters will go in this week - I will post a pic when they are installed.
Pricing for the TCM2600 has been set at $600 retail. This includes the controller and the harness. You may be able to find it cheaper through one of our dealers. We are just cleaning up the software and working through all the little issues so by the time it is released it will work flawlessly.
$600 is MSRP. Our dealers will end up setting the street price and I guess that will be closer to your sweet spot. Keep in mind that price includes the controller and harness.
Installed the paddle shifter today. It was harder to take a picture of than I would have thought. The display on the top of the paddle shifter displays things like gear, vehicle speed, rpm, throttle position, etc..
You had said earlier that you were "going to lay the power to it and see what breaks" Have you done that yet?
I know you have the one video with a bit of a burnout (if you can call it that) in it. Do you have any hard launches in it yet.
I've talked to Sonnax & a couple of other sources of transmission "beef-up" parts & I'm told that they have nothing for the 6T70 & 6T75. I'm also told that they don't have any parts they are developing for those transmissions. Do you have any word otherwise?
We have put the power to the transmission... It just does a big smokey burnout. With the 4.48 first gear, it could make anyone with the stock 4 cylinder look like John Force.
We have several hundred miles on the transmission now (it is my daily driver), most of it "demonstrating" the performance to a passenger or the unsuspecting Corvette. I think, at this point, it is safe to say a stock LS2 is not going to hurt this trans on the street. We just don't have the traction and burnouts aren't really hard on the transmission. Even working the throttle on the launch to stay on the edge of traction, the transmission performs flawlessly.
We have not brought the car to the drag strip yet. If it breaks, it will be there. It probably will take slicks. We plan on running it at the drag strip, but I wasn't planning on putting a set of slicks on it.... maybe I will have to reconsider...
I don't know of any trans suppliers that are working on upgraded parts. Probably for the same reason you don't offer a kit to put a Kubota diesel in a Fiero.... no demand. I think now that our controller is done, this transmission will find its way into more projects and more demand for upgraded parts. We work with several manufacturers of transmission parts and we may be able to work with them to add some part numbers for upgraded parts after we find the weakest link.
Is this the same trans in my 2012 impala? It sure doesnt feel like those gears to me, I'll have to manually run first gear to see top speed. It honestly feels like any other auto trans until 5th and 6th.
Most build parts for auto transmissions are thinner clutches/steels to add plates to clutches, larger servos or double-wrap bands to add capacity to the bands or valve parts to adjust line pressure, shift speed and firmness. VERY rarely are alternative ratios made.
In a quick-shifting automatic, the 4.48 first is a good thing. The ratios and splits look like they're optimized for a standing start max accel run to top speed.
Most build parts for auto transmissions are thinner clutches/steels to add plates to clutches, larger servos or double-wrap bands to add capacity to the bands or valve parts to adjust line pressure, shift speed and firmness. VERY rarely are alternative ratios made.
Even with these clutch-to-clutch transmissions?
quote
Originally posted by Will: In a quick-shifting automatic, the 4.48 first is a good thing. The ratios and splits look like they're optimized for a standing start max accel run to top speed.
Could you explain this a bit more? I'm definitely out of my league in this arena.
