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Jacking Up for Cradle Drop by Notorio
Started on: 02-08-2021 11:51 PM
Replies: 31 (389 views)
Last post by: oneinch on 02-18-2021 07:21 PM
Notorio
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Report this Post02-08-2021 11:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for NotorioSend a Private Message to NotorioEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Taking a page out of Toddster's great write up (literally ), here is Step 40 where the body is jacked up to allow clearance for the cradle to be pulled out from the side. Can anyone tell me the approximate height of the Red Arrow above the pavement surface? And at that point is there plenty of clearance or are you just squeaking the cradle by obstructions by the skin of your teeth??

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Report this Post02-09-2021 05:10 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ericjon262Send a Private Message to ericjon262Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
don't lift the car by the trunk latch, it's stupid dangerous. you can pull the trunk carpet and pass a chain through the firewall brace and lift the car almost as high, and not risk life and limb.

you're looking at about 4.5-5 feet.

------------------
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[This message has been edited by ericjon262 (edited 02-09-2021).]

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olejoedad
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Report this Post02-09-2021 08:38 AM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadClick Here to Email olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
My hoist has swivel casters on each corner.
To pull the drivetrain out of the driver side wheel well requires a measurement of about 37 inches to the bottom of the lower framerail.

Height of top of hoist leg + height of drivetrain from bottom of cradle to top of upper intake manifold.

I pick the car up using the tops of the strut towers. I have seen the crossbrace on the trunk wall tear when lifting the car with the drivetrain.

I have used this method on nearly fifty Fieros with no issues.
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Report this Post02-09-2021 08:43 AM Click Here to See the Profile for pmbrunelleClick Here to Email pmbrunelleSend a Private Message to pmbrunelleEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I personally pick up the car by the strut tower.

However, it looks like picking up the car with the bumper (looping straps around the rear frame rails) would be OK too.
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Report this Post02-09-2021 10:16 AM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
⚠️ Warning: Do Not use any Deck lock parts for Jacking.
That can kill you or anyone gets hit dropping a car.
Even the bolts and "nuts" holding lock parts are very weak.

See my Cave, Jacking to Clear Engine and Safe Jacking

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Report this Post02-09-2021 11:48 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ericjon262Send a Private Message to ericjon262Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by olejoedad:

My hoist has swivel casters on each corner.
To pull the drivetrain out of the driver side wheel well requires a measurement of about 37 inches to the bottom of the lower framerail.

Height of top of hoist leg + height of drivetrain from bottom of cradle to top of upper intake manifold.

I pick the car up using the tops of the strut towers. I have seen the crossbrace on the trunk wall tear when lifting the car with the drivetrain.

I have used this method on nearly fifty Fieros with no issues.


I haven't seen the crossbrace fail, that being said, the holes I loop the chain through show some very slight deformation, so the strut towers might be a better idea.

------------------
"I am not what you so glibly call to be a civilized man. I have broken with society for reasons which I alone am able to appreciate. I am therefore not subject to it's stupid laws, and I ask you to never allude to them in my presence again."

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Report this Post02-09-2021 12:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cvxjetClick Here to Email cvxjetSend a Private Message to cvxjetEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I looped a cargo strap around the whole trunk to lift the back of the car. Also, I made a mini-pallet for the engine/subframe to sit on and used a pallet jack from work to move the assembly out laterally. But I also removed the struts and suspension and intake manifold before doing all of that.

When I slid it back under a week later, I didn't want to haul the pallet jack back home from work again, so I used some lawn sprinkler pipes as rollers (Like the stones in the pyramid (Supposedly) and just cycled them- worked like a charm...

Don't know what that measurement was though.......
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Dennis LaGrua
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Report this Post02-09-2021 12:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaClick Here to Email Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Two post Rotary Lift with a Hydraulic table below on this end with tall jack stands for safety.. We've also replaced powertrains using a floor scissors lift supporting from the bottom. If we were to lift the car from above I would try to make a jig to lift by the strut towers as Joe has done. I met a guy a while back that changes engines from the top but havnt tried this method.
Always be cautious . Whats your life worth?. It only takes one mistake.

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Report this Post02-09-2021 01:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for NotorioSend a Private Message to NotorioEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by olejoedad:

...

Height of top of hoist leg + height of drivetrain from bottom of cradle to top of upper intake manifold.

I pick the car up using the tops of the strut towers. I have seen the crossbrace on the trunk wall tear when lifting the car with the drivetrain.

I have used this method on nearly fifty Fieros with no issues.


Thanks for all the input everybody.

Fifty Fieros! That is an astonishing number. Is this part of your business?

Ah, I didn't realize the Top of the Upper Intake is actually the high point. A lift of 4-5 feet or so should allow me plenty of room to clear the obstacles in the garage without a major re-org.
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Will
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Report this Post02-09-2021 03:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Install a trailer hitch and lifting becomes super easy...
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Notorio
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Report this Post02-09-2021 04:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for NotorioSend a Private Message to NotorioEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:

Install a trailer hitch and lifting becomes super easy...


Has anyone actually put a hitch on a Fiero? It seems a little undignified to me for some reason
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Report this Post02-09-2021 05:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BoozemanClick Here to Email BoozemanSend a Private Message to BoozemanEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Have you seen the "Trailering Instructions" in the owner's manual?

It simply says, "Do not pull a trailer with your Fiero."

I thought that was pretty funny...

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Report this Post02-09-2021 06:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for skywurzClick Here to visit skywurz's HomePageSend a Private Message to skywurzEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Boozeman:

Have you seen the "Trailering Instructions" in the owner's manual?

It simply says, "Do not pull a trailer with your Fiero."

I thought that was pretty funny...



No it doesn't

[This message has been edited by skywurz (edited 02-09-2021).]

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theogre
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Report this Post02-09-2021 07:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Boozeman:

Have you seen the "Trailering Instructions" in the owner's manual?

It simply says, "Do not pull a trailer with your Fiero."

I thought that was pretty funny...
Is very common and Many vehicles have same in the OM.
And If you still tow, most like Fiero only allow 100# tongue weight and 1000# Total Trailer weight.
That's including many "Smaller" SUV and Trucks.

100# behind rear bumper puts a lot of load that can lighten the front axle big time affecting brakes and steering. Is worse then 100# in the Fiero Truck just behind rear axle.

Many small trailers eat ~ ½ to all of 1000# including many trailers are cut down Fiero. The tiny trailer HF and others sell weigh 150# w/ just a simple deck to complete them. (At lest I think why Shipping Weight is lower then Product Weight.)
Then load the trailer and car to be way over loaded ignoring GVWR.

87 Fiero pg 2-2...
 
quote
TRAILER TOWING
This car is designed and intended to be used mainly to carry people. Towing a trailer will affect handling, durability and economy. Your safety and satisfaction depend upon proper use of correct equipment. Also, you should avoid overloads and other abusive use.
The maximum loaded trailer weight you can pull with your car is 450 kilograms (1000 pounds). The maximum static tongue weight should not exceed 45 kilograms (100 pounds).

------------------
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eti engineer
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Report this Post02-09-2021 09:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for eti engineerClick Here to Email eti engineerSend a Private Message to eti engineerEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
An easy way to tell how high I needed to go on my '88 was to watch when the front air dam hit the ground. At the point it was just starting to touch the ground, the car was high enough to get the engine out. BUT, I built the Toddster's cradle, lowered the car on the cradle, finished pulling the cradle bolts while the car was sitting on the cradle and then used my engine hoist to lift the back end of the car as high as I could which was until the front air dam touched the ground. The engine slid out easily through the passenger side rear wheel housing.





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eti engineer
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Report this Post02-09-2021 09:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for eti engineerClick Here to Email eti engineerSend a Private Message to eti engineerEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Toddster's cradle has been the most helpful piece of equipment in this whole thing. I was able to move things around on the cradle so I could easily work on them. I put my engine on the hoist and then bolted it to my engine stand to work on it. I am just waiting for my new 3.4 engine to be delivered so I can put things back together. It's supposed to be here "any day now". There are instructions in here on the dimensions for Todd's cradle (Thanks, Todd!!!). I have a link. If I can find it, I will post it in here.
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eti engineer
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Report this Post02-09-2021 09:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for eti engineerClick Here to Email eti engineerSend a Private Message to eti engineerEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
https://gafiero.akroncdnr.com/docs/rv6.pdf

This is the link to help you remove the engine. It also shows you how to build the cradle. Believe me, it is worth the time and money to do so!!!!
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Report this Post02-09-2021 10:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
2 large moving flat "carts" will do that but get ones w/ good wheels.
But Most at HF Walmart etc have crap wheels and won't steer even loaded < ½ of capacity. Main issue isn't actual wheel but caster "bearing" at top.

Their "small" and "cheap" and can use then elsewhere and store easy when not needed.

Notes:
Don't leave loads on wood carts. Even above may look strong but can warp under load and easier gets soak w/ oil coolant etc.
If have to work on "blacktop" then don't leave carts w/ load on the pavement or can sink into it overnight. Many Jacks and other things have same problem covered in Cave.
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Report this Post02-09-2021 11:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for NotorioSend a Private Message to NotorioEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
It's funny that the small wheel dolly/skates have been mentioned. After looking at local and other on line options my plan is to get this pair on Amazon (Pentagon Tools 5061 Tire Skates 2 Tire Wheel Car Dolly Ball Bearings Skate, 12" (Pack of 2) Rated at 6000lbs) which are $78. Beware the cheaper set also by Pentagon with the poor quality casters. These skates will add a few inches to jacking up for clearance but I like the idea of them being easy to store, plus I don't need to build them myself.



ETI, can you tell us more about the 3.4 you are getting 'any day now'?? I'm still kicking the idea around for a short block and can't decide between going with the Camaro 3.4 or one of the newer 3400 (but with the Camaro pistons to get back to a good compression ratio with Fiero heads.
I still need the set up to look stock.) Last year Dennis sent me a nice summary comparing the two options.

[This message has been edited by Notorio (edited 02-09-2021).]

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Will
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Report this Post02-10-2021 08:13 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by eti engineer:



That's a REALLY TALL cradle dolly.
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Report this Post02-10-2021 08:16 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Will

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quote
Originally posted by Notorio:

Has anyone actually put a hitch on a Fiero? It seems a little undignified to me for some reason


I have. Not only did I install the hitch, I cut out the original tiny receiver and had a 2" receiver welded in.
The Fiero Store sells them for a reason.

Even if you're not "moving stuff" a small trailer is still the easiest way to take your race wheels/tires to the track without accumulating street miles on them. And said trailer also makes it easier to carry more tools to the track as well.
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Report this Post02-10-2021 01:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for oneinchSend a Private Message to oneinchEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I like the idea of using these skates for casters. TODDSTER's dolly would sit nicely on a set of four of these. I only plan on dropping this cradle one time. I have to buy casters of some sort, but when I'm done I really don't need casters. I don't need car skates either, but I'm more likely to reuse the skates than I am the casters.

 
quote
Originally posted by Notorio:

It's funny that the small wheel dolly/skates have been mentioned. After looking at local and other on line options my plan is to get this pair on Amazon (Pentagon Tools 5061 Tire Skates 2 Tire Wheel Car Dolly Ball Bearings Skate, 12" (Pack of 2) Rated at 6000lbs) which are $78. Beware the cheaper set also by Pentagon with the poor quality casters. These skates will add a few inches to jacking up for clearance but I like the idea of them being easy to store, plus I don't need to build them myself.



ETI, can you tell us more about the 3.4 you are getting 'any day now'?? I'm still kicking the idea around for a short block and can't decide between going with the Camaro 3.4 or one of the newer 3400 (but with the Camaro pistons to get back to a good compression ratio with Fiero heads.
I still need the set up to look stock.) Last year Dennis sent me a nice summary comparing the two options.



------------------
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Report this Post02-10-2021 03:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for css9450Click Here to Email css9450Send a Private Message to css9450Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by eti engineer:

An easy way to tell how high I needed to go on my '88 was to watch when the front air dam hit the ground. At the point it was just starting to touch the ground, the car was high enough to get the engine out.


It seems one could gain a few inches by starting with the front wheels a few (or several) inches off the ground. Perhaps make small mini-cradles for them using the extra lumber from your cart? Put one under each front wheel.

Raising the front just a little eliminates the front air dam from hitting the ground, and I think it would eliminate a few degrees of "slope" when the car is raised to its maximum. Or maybe it doesn't matter?

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Report this Post02-10-2021 11:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mountainmanSend a Private Message to mountainmanEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Put the front wheels on ramps. Makes the whole operation much easier. j
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Report this Post02-11-2021 09:01 AM Click Here to See the Profile for eti engineerClick Here to Email eti engineerSend a Private Message to eti engineerEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:


That's a REALLY TALL cradle dolly.


It works fine and the nice thing is, there are openings in it under where the cradle sits (It sits on the outer 2X6 boards). This made it really nice when I needed to undo bolts from the underside. Believe me, it works beautifully.
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Report this Post02-11-2021 09:02 AM Click Here to See the Profile for eti engineerClick Here to Email eti engineerSend a Private Message to eti engineerEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

eti engineer

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Member since Mar 2017
 
quote
Originally posted by eti engineer:


It works fine and the nice thing is, there are openings in it under where the cradle sits (It sits on the outer 2X6 boards). This made it really nice when I needed to undo bolts from the underside. Believe me, it works beautifully.


The main thing is to get good casters and make them all steerable. BTW, I agree with putting the front wheels on ramps before jacking up the back end. It would make it easier. I had ramps and if I ever have to do this again, God forbid, I will put the front wheels on ramps before lifting the rear end.

[This message has been edited by eti engineer (edited 02-11-2021).]

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Report this Post02-11-2021 02:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by eti engineer:

It works fine and the nice thing is, there are openings in it under where the cradle sits (It sits on the outer 2X6 boards). This made it really nice when I needed to undo bolts from the underside. Believe me, it works beautifully.


It just requires the car to be that much higher to get the cradle out from under it.
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Report this Post02-11-2021 03:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for NotorioSend a Private Message to NotorioEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by mountainman:

Put the front wheels on ramps. Makes the whole operation much easier. j


Yeah, I think that is what I'm going to do.
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Report this Post02-11-2021 04:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for css9450Click Here to Email css9450Send a Private Message to css9450Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:

That's a REALLY TALL cradle dolly.


I think it's the same as the one called for the the "How To" on the forum.... Maybe he used some really large wheels?

My Home Depot has about a dozen different kinds, some larger than others. I can see where small but sturdy would be best.

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Report this Post02-17-2021 02:32 AM Click Here to See the Profile for reinhartClick Here to Email reinhartSend a Private Message to reinhartEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I dropped the cradle without a floor jack or a hoist. What i did was throw two sand bags in the front on the radiator. I had an engine dolly I made from a 1/2" board on top of some 1 inch high wheels (The total dolly height was like 1 1/2"). Then I raised the engine using a long 4x4 under the middle of the car where the scissor jack goes. I used two Fiero scissor jacks and just lifted them up and then added about 4 inches under them to get enough clearance with them fully extended. Total cost of the dolly + 4x4 was like $15. The nose was just about to touch the ground when I had enough clearance to slide the dolly + engine cradle out the passenger side.

I also made my own engine hoist with some 4x4's a few right angle braces, 4 dolly wheels, and a wire hoist. That cost maybe $25.
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Report this Post02-17-2021 11:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for NotorioSend a Private Message to NotorioEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by reinhart:
... Then I raised the engine using a long 4x4 under the middle of the car where the scissor jack goes ...


This sounds like quite an exploit without a hoist but I can't for the life of me visualize how this worked.
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Report this Post02-18-2021 07:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for oneinchSend a Private Message to oneinchEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Just pulled my cradle. I didn't use a hoist. I used an 8 ft 4x4 underneath the car. There are frame rails just inside the vehicle jack locations. I positioned the 4x4 under these points. I put small 2x4 spacers on the 4x4 and under these points. The 4x4 never actually touched the car. You can jack up the car from the center of the 4x4, but I chose to use two jacks on the outer ends. I used jackstands under the 4x4 to prevent a catastrophic fall. My front tires were also raised 6 inches. I removed the driver's side strut too. I didn't need to remove the rear deck either.

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