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New Wheels . . . by The_Q42
Started on: 01-07-2021 12:42 PM
Replies: 13 (321 views)
Last post by: The_Q42 on 01-13-2021 12:51 PM
The_Q42
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Report this Post01-07-2021 12:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for The_Q42Send a Private Message to The_Q42Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Hi. I know there are probably a whole bunch of threads on this, but I wanted to get the community's thoughts on these wheels: https://www.tirerack.com/wh...&autoModClar=Premium

Will they fit (and fully turn)? Anyone use these, or similar Sparco wheels?

Edit: tried to edit the URL to something that might be more likely to work for everyone . . .

[This message has been edited by The_Q42 (edited 01-07-2021).]

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Raydar
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Report this Post01-07-2021 12:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Just based on the size, width, and offset, I'm thinking they'll fit just fine, and will look good, too.
(I had to doctor the url that you posted, in order to get the link to work. It doesn't want to post here.)

Edit - This is the part #. Google will bring it up. W29071500ILG

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 01-07-2021).]

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The_Q42
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Report this Post01-07-2021 01:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for The_Q42Send a Private Message to The_Q42Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Raydar:

Just based on the size, width, and offset, I'm thinking they'll fit just fine, and will look good, too.
(I had to doctor the url that you posted, in order to get the link to work. It doesn't want to post here.)

Edit - This is the part #. Google will bring it up. W29071500ILG



Thanks! Tried to edit it. Yeah, Iv'e seen others put 17" wheels on, but thought it wouldn't hurt to ask here on the thread. I don't want a crazy narrow sidewall, but also want to increase my contact patch a bit, and give myself some additional stability/traction. The tires that came on my little project car have some rot on them, so I'm going to need to swap the wheels sooner than I originally planned. So, I'll have nice new wheels on a beat up car in need of restoration and paint, but hey, I have to be able to drive the thing to and from the storage facility to work on it. :-)
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cvxjet
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Report this Post01-07-2021 02:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cvxjetClick Here to Email cvxjetSend a Private Message to cvxjetEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Those are heavy wheels (Over 20 lbs each)....A while back I went to a new wheel/tire package; From 15 x 7 215/60 and 225/60 BFG comp TAs to 16 x 7 205/55 and 225/55 General G-Max tires- I took 3 lbs off each rear and 6 lbs off of each front corner- The difference was hard to believe. The car rode better, accel' and braking performance improved and it felt much more modern/advanced/refined. Later I made the mistake of going with some BFG G-Force sport comp tires that were 2 lbs heavier per corner- felt like the car was club-footed!

I am now back with the G-max tires and it feels much better again. Try to find some lighter wheels- it will really make a difference...The Sparco Asseto Gara is 18.8 lbs which is an improvement....and only $20 more per wheel...But look around- you may find something even lighter. (TR has some lighter wheels if you have a bazillion bucks to spend....)
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Report this Post01-07-2021 08:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Both of my cars have 17x8, 35mm wheels on the rear. The fit is (IMHO) ideal.
The fronts are 17x7, 38mm on one car, and 17x7, 48mm on the other. (Both are 88s, that require the goofy offset for the front wheels.)

It is my opinion that 35mm offset is ideal for 84-87 Fieros, on all four corners, with anything up to 8" width.
17s are (again IMHO) perfect for the Fiero. They are large enough to be able to fit "modern" (i.e. less expensive) tires, but also allow for a "tall" enough sidewall so that you don't get beat to death by imperfections in the road.

Generally, anything that will fit the first generation of the VW "new Beetle" will be ideal for a pre-88 Fiero.

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 01-07-2021).]

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The_Q42
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Report this Post01-08-2021 12:04 AM Click Here to See the Profile for The_Q42Send a Private Message to The_Q42Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Ah, really good point about the weight--I missed that. Those are pretty heavy.
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cvxjet
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Report this Post01-08-2021 01:23 AM Click Here to See the Profile for cvxjetClick Here to Email cvxjetSend a Private Message to cvxjetEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I also would like to point out that even a loaded Fiero's empty weight would not be above 2800 lbs...Take a newer (C7) Grand Sport Vette which weighs over 3500 lbs...The ratio is 1.25 to 1.....So the Vette's 285 front and 335 rear tires become 225 and 265........I like really wide tires but don't go overboard and end up with a car that doesn't function well.

Most of the guys I was around growing up were into straight-line drag racing where you really don't care about anything except Power and Traction (in the rear).....I was always into handling so wide tires front and rear but those fronts would really start creating problems because of steering. I slowly realized that those really good looking WIDE tires would create a whole set of conditions that you then need to deal with; Fitment, obviously, overloading your suspension, and then as I mentioned, weight...

Just something to consider...
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Daryl M
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Report this Post01-08-2021 10:29 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Daryl MClick Here to Email Daryl MSend a Private Message to Daryl MEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by cvxjet:

Those are heavy wheels (Over 20 lbs each)....A while back I went to a new wheel/tire package; From 15 x 7 215/60 and 225/60 BFG comp TAs to 16 x 7 205/55 and 225/55 General G-Max tires- I took 3 lbs off each rear and 6 lbs off of each front corner- The difference was hard to believe. The car rode better, accel' and braking performance improved and it felt much more modern/advanced/refined. Later I made the mistake of going with some BFG G-Force sport comp tires that were 2 lbs heavier per corner- felt like the car was club-footed!

I am now back with the G-max tires and it feels much better again. Try to find some lighter wheels- it will really make a difference...The Sparco Asseto Gara is 18.8 lbs which is an improvement....and only $20 more per wheel...But look around- you may find something even lighter. (TR has some lighter wheels if you have a bazillion bucks to spend....)

Is 20 pounds allot for a wheel? I looked just now and it was hard to find larger wheels under 20 pounds.
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cvxjet
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Report this Post01-08-2021 12:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cvxjetClick Here to Email cvxjetSend a Private Message to cvxjetEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The problem with large diameter wheels on older cars is that the suspensions were never designed to deal with all of that weight; Modern (Big wheel) cars have all-aluminum suspensions, and the shocks are more advanced which helps to eliminate the effects of those heavy wheels.

If you could get aluminum spindles and A-arms then that would improve what happens with a Fiero when swapping in heavy wheels. And of course, the new performance cars (Vette/Camaro/Mustang) all have active shocks.

This above only addresses the vertical suspension movement of the suspension and wheels...But then there is the ROTATIONAL effect that extra mass has- If you have a 400 hp engine then it would be negligible....But adding 40 lbs of extra weight on your wheel/tire package can kill a lot of the performance of a 140 hp Fiero.....40 lbs rotational mass EQUALS 200 lbs on the chassis...I notice a drop in performance when I have my GF in the car (No, she is NOT 280 lbs! She is only 124)

16 inch wheels are very easy to find light alternatives- I have some VOXX Monzas that are beautiful and light at 14 lbs....Once you go to the big wheels (17s) you start to have difficulty with finding light weight wheels. They have lots of 17" wheels around 20 lbs but to get lower weights you have to pay more; the Enkei RPF 1 weighs 14.8 (17 x 7) and 15.6 (17 x 8) but they cost $261 and $275. NOTE; Tirerack shows few wheels under "Fiero"...Try searching "Subaru BRZ" (Only difference is more offset- which is GOOD)

Another good thing about these wheels is that they have more offset (42 or 45)- Up front that will reduce your scrub radius which will lighten the steering and cut back on the kick-back you feel through the steering wheel. Out back you can add a spacer to move the tire/wheel out a bit.
(I had 30 mm back spacing on the 15s, then swapped to the VOXX 16s which had 38 mm...Big difference (Although some would be from the slightly narrower tire (215 down to 205)...When I was installing the 88 brakes up front, I added back approx' 10 mm (Thickness of the hub of Vette 12" disc) and the steering was bad...Then I got a set of Aluminum hubs from Sluppy123 with 10 mm backset and the steering was good again.

[This message has been edited by cvxjet (edited 01-08-2021).]

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The_Q42
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Report this Post01-08-2021 05:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for The_Q42Send a Private Message to The_Q42Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by cvxjet:

The problem with large diameter wheels on older cars is that the suspensions were never designed to deal with all of that weight; Modern (Big wheel) cars have all-aluminum suspensions, and the shocks are more advanced which helps to eliminate the effects of those heavy wheels.

If you could get aluminum spindles and A-arms then that would improve what happens with a Fiero when swapping in heavy wheels. And of course, the new performance cars (Vette/Camaro/Mustang) all have active shocks.

This above only addresses the vertical suspension movement of the suspension and wheels...But then there is the ROTATIONAL effect that extra mass has- If you have a 400 hp engine then it would be negligible....But adding 40 lbs of extra weight on your wheel/tire package can kill a lot of the performance of a 140 hp Fiero.....40 lbs rotational mass EQUALS 200 lbs on the chassis...I notice a drop in performance when I have my GF in the car (No, she is NOT 280 lbs! She is only 124)

16 inch wheels are very easy to find light alternatives- I have some VOXX Monzas that are beautiful and light at 14 lbs....Once you go to the big wheels (17s) you start to have difficulty with finding light weight wheels. They have lots of 17" wheels around 20 lbs but to get lower weights you have to pay more; the Enkei RPF 1 weighs 14.8 (17 x 7) and 15.6 (17 x 8) but they cost $261 and $275. NOTE; Tirerack shows few wheels under "Fiero"...Try searching "Subaru BRZ" (Only difference is more offset- which is GOOD)

Another good thing about these wheels is that they have more offset (42 or 45)- Up front that will reduce your scrub radius which will lighten the steering and cut back on the kick-back you feel through the steering wheel. Out back you can add a spacer to move the tire/wheel out a bit.
(I had 30 mm back spacing on the 15s, then swapped to the VOXX 16s which had 38 mm...Big difference (Although some would be from the slightly narrower tire (215 down to 205)...When I was installing the 88 brakes up front, I added back approx' 10 mm (Thickness of the hub of Vette 12" disc) and the steering was bad...Then I got a set of Aluminum hubs from Sluppy123 with 10 mm backset and the steering was good again.



Yeah, but how heavy were the stock wheels? Has anybody weighed GT wheels? I imagine they were fairly heavy (OEM wheels usually are/were, especially in the 80s). Maybe at least 18 lbs? My project car doesn't have stock wheels on it, or I'd weigh them (the ones on there now are crap, hence me buying wheels AND tires instead of just tires). They're currently 205/60 R16s. I'm not against sticking the 16" realm to keep the weight down either, though I do want to shrink the side-wall a LITTLE to get better stiffness in the corners (I live in Ohio, so there's gotta be SOME sidewall in there).

To me, one of the best things about this car, in terms of potential, is it's ability to handle (with a low CG, and mid-engine layout). To that end, I don't want to kill my handling with wheel choice. I also plan to overhaul the suspension with coilovers all around and beefier sway bars, front and rear. Maybe I'll do even more on the suspension too--dunno yet. :-)

So, with all that in mind, I'm not sure which wheels to pick :-)

[This message has been edited by The_Q42 (edited 01-08-2021).]

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cvxjet
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Report this Post01-08-2021 05:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cvxjetClick Here to Email cvxjetSend a Private Message to cvxjetEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Here is a pic of my Fiero with the 16 x 7s and 205/55 and 225/55 tires.....Also, I did some odd-ball things with mounting my stabilizer bars to improve BOTH turn-in and DTO...Here is a link to my thread on that; http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/140674.html

[This message has been edited by cvxjet (edited 01-08-2021).]

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The_Q42
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Report this Post01-09-2021 04:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for The_Q42Send a Private Message to The_Q42Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thanks for all the info cvxjet, it's sincerely appreciated. For the size/weight of the car, I'm betting that the trade-offs in weight might not be worth it to go to 17"s. I'm actually less concerned with aesthetics than I am performance. I mean, I want it to look nice, but I care a lot more about how it handles :-)
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Dennis LaGrua
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Report this Post01-11-2021 08:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaClick Here to Email Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If I may be permitted to chime in. My 3800SC Fiero has 7.5" W 17" wheels w 35mm offset 225 x 45-17 Rear and 205 x45 x 17 front. My wheels weigh about 18 lbs. The performance and handling is great but the ride is much harder than stock especially when I had the KYB shocks on the front. Changing to Monroe shocks did soften the ride a little. IMO, 17" wheels have a nice look that makes the Fiero look more modern but at a cost in ride. Side walls are 4" and 3.6"
On my next project I will use 16" wheels 225 x 50 -16 R and 205 x 50 -16 F Side walls are 4.4" and 4"
With these tires you only give up .4"- .6" on the sidewall.
Stock Fiero tire sidewalls are 5.1" and 4.8" .
Side wall comparison
Stock 15" 5.1" and 4.8"
16" tires 4.4" and 4"
17" tires 4.0" and 3.6"
Conclusion that extra side wall rubber makes a BIG difference in the ride..

------------------
" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

[This message has been edited by Dennis LaGrua (edited 01-11-2021).]

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The_Q42
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Report this Post01-13-2021 12:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for The_Q42Send a Private Message to The_Q42Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'm still REALLY curious about how much the stock wheel weigh . . . but, yeah, I get the ride quality thing. I'm still thinking I'll have better tire availability with the 17" wheels going forward though, since I'll be putting high performance summer tires on there.

[This message has been edited by The_Q42 (edited 01-13-2021).]

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