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Rear cradle assembly - Stupid Questions by Thunderstruck GT
Started on: 11-08-2020 10:31 AM
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Last post by: ZaraSpOOk on 11-29-2020 07:23 PM
Thunderstruck GT
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Report this Post11-08-2020 10:31 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Thunderstruck GTSend a Private Message to Thunderstruck GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I recall back then on the GM front wheel drive vehicles, dealers would drop the complete cradle assembly with complete drivetrain assembly attached. I don't recall them doing this to the Fiero.

My questions are....

Can this procedure be done on a Fiero?

Can it be done on the ground (without a lift)?

If anyone here has done this, how did you lift the car high enough to get the assembly out?

Anyone have photos of the car supported in the air?

All this will be done on a 1988 with a V-6

Thanks in advance
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Report this Post11-08-2020 10:40 AM Click Here to See the Profile for skywurzClick Here to visit skywurz's HomePageSend a Private Message to skywurzEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Yes 4 bolts + strut bolts and the rear assembly comes right out. Ive done this with and without an engine hoist on the ground no lift.

Please see http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/093983.html

[This message has been edited by skywurz (edited 11-08-2020).]

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Thunderstruck GT
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Report this Post11-08-2020 11:00 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Thunderstruck GTSend a Private Message to Thunderstruck GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Cool!

Thought about using a cherry picker to lift the car but wasn't sure where to hook on. I guess the rear bumper reinforcement will hold judging by the photos.

I'm not too concerned about the body or space frame, just would like to get the rolling assembly out in one piece.

Thanks!
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fieroguru
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Report this Post11-08-2020 11:35 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Yes, everything can come out the bottom with a simple cherry picker. There is no need for a cart to roll the cradle around. Just drop the cradle and rest it on the cherry picker legs and move it around with the cherry picker.

If you want to remove the struts, bolt and a chain across the strut towers works well as used here:


Anymore, I leave the suspension and brakes with the chassis, so I use a chain with hooks into the cross beam behind the strut towers (just pull the carpet forward):



This is what I call the more power pose!
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Dennis LaGrua
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Report this Post11-08-2020 11:47 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaClick Here to Email Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Thunderstruck GT:

I recall back then on the GM front wheel drive vehicles, dealers would drop the complete cradle assembly with complete drivetrain assembly attached. I don't recall them doing this to the Fiero.

My questions are....

Can this procedure be done on a Fiero?
>>>> Been done many times before
Can it be done on the ground (without a lift)?
>>>>>Yes see the pictures above posted by other members
If anyone here has done this, how did you lift the car high enough to get the assembly out?
>>>>>>I believe the safest way is to use the cherry picker (attaching it to the strut towers), to lift the rear end up high enough to drop the cradle but of course after disconnecting water lines, fuel lines, wiring harness, throttle cable, struts etc, etc
Anyone have photos of the car supported in the air?
>>>> Already covered by the other guys, but you will need to make a dolly with wheels on it to lower down the powertrain cradle and wheel it away
All this will be done on a 1988 with a V-6

Be careful, and good luck


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Report this Post11-08-2020 11:52 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierosoundClick Here to visit fierosound's HomePageClick Here to Email fierosoundSend a Private Message to fierosoundEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

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Report this Post11-08-2020 01:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cvxjetClick Here to Email cvxjetSend a Private Message to cvxjetEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I changed the engine/trany in my garage using an engine hoist...made a custom pallet for the cradle to sit on. Lowered the cradle/engine/trany assy onto the pallet, then using a cargo strap wrapped around the trunk, I lifted the chassis up to clear the top of the engine and used a pallet jack to pull the assy out from under the car.

Later, I did not want to borrow the pallet jack to reinstall it, so I used plastic yard sprinkler pipe to roll the assy under the car again (Thanks Dad!)...Remember, the rear chassis weight is probably under 1000 lbs with no engine/trany/subframe/suspension......Make sure the cargo strap can handle THAT much.
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Raydar
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Report this Post11-08-2020 05:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I had someone build me a gantry crane. aka The Swingset From Hell.
Works better if you put the front wheels on ramps, first.

This thing is strong enough to hold up the car with the engine, but don't overtax your hoist or other hardware.



Alley oop!
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Report this Post11-08-2020 07:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
⚠️ Warning: Do Not lift by Trunk loop or bolts for it.

See my Cave, Safe Jacking and Jacking to Clear Engine

Notes:
"Repair Links" for chains often are weaker then the chain. Picture in cave w/ wrench and chain is only example and that link only rated to < 800lb.

Removing knuckle and strut in one piece won't bother alignment much or none at all. If you remove strut bottom bolts or change tierod, that kills your alignment.

I remove removed knuckle and strut then attach chain hook to frame first going thru strut towel hole but even that have issues because most have chain too long or hooks to big to go thru strut hole so never added to cave page.

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Raydar
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Report this Post11-08-2020 11:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by theogre:

⚠️ Warning: Do Not lift by Trunk loop or bolts for it.



My chain is looped through the steel channel at the front of the trunk compartment (Where the trunk light is.)

That way I can lift the car with the struts in or out.
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Report this Post11-13-2020 05:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ZaraSpOOkClick Here to Email ZaraSpOOkSend a Private Message to ZaraSpOOkEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
you do not need a cherry picker or similar, simply put an 8' 4x4 just slightly behind the jacking point on the car, place a hockey puck ($1) between the frame and 4x4
now use a floor jack under the ends of the 4x4 sticking out from the sides of the car, you will have about 18" outside the car, jack up each side
I place 3' 2x6's (flat side) under the 4x4, eventually using jack stands as double safety, the car will need to sit on 9 of these 2x6's on each side to allow you to take the cradle out the passenger side
I've done this twice now
this can even be done with only one jack if you go from side to side only placing one 2x6 each side as you go
Todd's directions are excellent and make it easy
buy 2, or better yet 4 dolly's from Harbor Freight as your support for the cradle
I can uplaod pics of the dolly assembly (cost about $40) and my car in the air if you ask
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Thunderstruck GT
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Report this Post11-14-2020 11:34 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Thunderstruck GTSend a Private Message to Thunderstruck GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thanks for all the replies. They're all helpful.

My end game is to be able to have a rolling assembly. I "plan" on dropping the cradle assembly while the car is on the trailer so that once it's out I can run the remainder of the car to the scrap yard.
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qwikgta
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Report this Post11-14-2020 05:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for qwikgtaClick Here to Email qwikgtaSend a Private Message to qwikgtaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Thunderstruck GT:

I recall back then on the GM front wheel drive vehicles, dealers would drop the complete cradle assembly with complete drivetrain assembly attached. I don't recall them doing this to the Fiero.

My questions are....

Can this procedure be done on a Fiero?

Can it be done on the ground (without a lift)?

If anyone here has done this, how did you lift the car high enough to get the assembly out?

Anyone have photos of the car supported in the air?

All this will be done on a 1988 with a V-6

Thanks in advance



You have over 2600 posts, and have been here for over 5 years and you are really asking these questions?
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Dennis LaGrua
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Report this Post11-14-2020 07:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaClick Here to Email Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Here is how we do it. A 2 post Rotary Lift and a 1000 lb hydraulic lift table

For a long time car enthusiast it doesn't get much easier than this. If you can afford it, the investment in a lift makes repair work so much easier.

[This message has been edited by Dennis LaGrua (edited 11-14-2020).]

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Report this Post11-15-2020 12:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for NotorioSend a Private Message to NotorioEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by ZaraSpOOk:
....

I can uplaod pics of the dolly assembly (cost about $40) and my car in the air if you ask


I'm curious to see what you have done, even though it might not apply to the current removal situation ...
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Report this Post11-15-2020 03:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Thunderstruck GTSend a Private Message to Thunderstruck GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua:

Here is how we do it. A 2 post Rotary Lift and a 1000 lb hydraulic lift table

For a long time car enthusiast it doesn't get much easier than this. If you can afford it, the investment in a lift makes repair work so much easier.



My shop has too many cars in it therefore there is no room for a 2 post.

Besides..... I'm not rich like you.
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Report this Post11-15-2020 06:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for eti engineerClick Here to Email eti engineerSend a Private Message to eti engineerEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post


This is a cradle I built using information from the Toddster who posted in here. I have found this cradle and a cherry picker to be the best combination. Using this, I was able to pull the cradle intact and then with the aid of a cherry picker, separate the engine to put it on an engine stand and I left the transmission on the cradle I built. Works great!!! Thanks, Todd
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Report this Post11-15-2020 06:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for eti engineerClick Here to Email eti engineerSend a Private Message to eti engineerEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post


picture of the tranny on the wooden cradle
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Report this Post11-15-2020 06:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for eti engineerClick Here to Email eti engineerSend a Private Message to eti engineerEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

eti engineer

43 posts
Member since Mar 2017


Engine on hoist, ready to put on the floor or on an engine stand to free up hoist for other things. This has worked very well for me, but to each his own.
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Report this Post11-15-2020 07:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Thunderstruck GTSend a Private Message to Thunderstruck GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by eti engineer:



This is a cradle I built using information from the Toddster who posted in here. I have found this cradle and a cherry picker to be the best combination. Using this, I was able to pull the cradle intact and then with the aid of a cherry picker, separate the engine to put it on an engine stand and I left the transmission on the cradle I built. Works great!!! Thanks, Todd


As mentioned...….

 
quote
Originally posted by Thunderstruck GT:

My end game is to be able to have a rolling assembly..


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Report this Post11-16-2020 02:05 AM Click Here to See the Profile for BlacktreeClick Here to visit Blacktree's HomePageClick Here to Email BlacktreeSend a Private Message to BlacktreeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Thunderstruck GT:

Thought about using a cherry picker to lift the car but wasn't sure where to hook on. I guess the rear bumper reinforcement will hold judging by the photos.

I'm not too concerned about the body or space frame, just would like to get the rolling assembly out in one piece.

You can do it with the entire suspension still attached to the cradle. But you'll need to remove the wheels. They'll just get in the way. And you'll need some type of dolly to put under the cradle. The drivetrain/cradle/suspension assembly won't hold itself up after it's been removed from the car.

But as you can see, dropping the cradle with the drivetrain on it is pretty common. But different people use different methods to accomplish it. For example, I built a gantry out of lumber, to lift the car up off the cradle assembly. Then I just roll it out from under the car. You can do something similar with a cherry picker. But you'll need to put jackstands under the car, so you can get the cherry picker out of the way.



[This message has been edited by Blacktree (edited 11-16-2020).]

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Report this Post11-16-2020 12:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for skywurzClick Here to visit skywurz's HomePageSend a Private Message to skywurzEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I see a lot of people using cherry pickers and such... and i have done this (don't tell the ogre but via the trunk latch... DONT do this it will bend your latch. A Golden Gate Fiero club member said it was fine...) but the last one i did I jacked the car up from the center cradle support with a railroad rail as a spacer for height (I had to jack up the car put it on stands then add the rail.) Then i jacked it even higher until my SUV jack stands were maxed out. (i placed them just forward of the rear cradle mounts.) I let the jack down so the front end would come up and i could remove the spacer from my jack. I put my jack back under the cradle and maxed it out i think i was not quite touching . I unbolted everything ( I undid the harness and other things when it was lower.) I undid the shock bolts last this allowed for me to slowly drop the assembly so it was touching my jack. once it was on the jack and the nuts were off then i lowered the jack. I was fine on clearance BECAUSE i was removing the shocks and did not care about alignment. then the engine pulled right back and out. One thing i always mess up is i dont remove the tires or i try to support the cradle from the A arms. ive done this 2 or 3 times and its a struggle to move that heavy assembly once its sitting on the ground.

I do not recommend this method if you have the right tools. But it can be done without a hoist, cherry picker, swing of doom, lift, etc
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Report this Post11-16-2020 02:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for NotorioSend a Private Message to NotorioEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
How the other half lives ... (don't try this at home!)

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Report this Post11-22-2020 09:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ZaraSpOOkClick Here to Email ZaraSpOOkSend a Private Message to ZaraSpOOkEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Notorio:


I'm curious to see what you have done, even though it might not apply to the current removal situation ...




here is the car sitting on blocks with the cradle removed, note the hockey puck which gives a little stability over wood, also note the wood is supporting the 4x4, the jack stands are backup, always use two methods of support

also note the AC hanging from a coat hanger

using this method the cradle comes out the side {mud guards must be removed, which is good to do}, I cannot show a pic of the cradle support I assembled, because the cradle is currently sitting on it
but maybe I can capture a pic that will give an idea of how the dollies are constructed, the 1st time I used just two, but added the fourth tjis time for more stability

BTW, two sets of wrenches you might want to get from HF are "shorty" wrenches and "S" wrenches, they come in handy where straight wrenches don't work or are cumbersome

[This message has been edited by ZaraSpOOk (edited 11-22-2020).]

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Report this Post11-23-2020 08:16 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Thunderstruck GTSend a Private Message to Thunderstruck GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by ZaraSpOOk:


.................BTW, two sets of wrenches you might want to get from HF are "shorty" wrenches and "S" wrenches, they come in handy where straight wrenches don't work or are cumbersome



For what particular purpose in removing the cradle assembly?
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Report this Post11-23-2020 05:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ZaraSpOOkClick Here to Email ZaraSpOOkSend a Private Message to ZaraSpOOkEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Thunderstruck GT:


For what particular purpose in removing the cradle assembly?


both come in handy for the two rear AC bolts/nuts, also the S wrenches if you are removing the bolts for the transmission mounts
I may be forgetting other places, in the tight quarters of the Fiero, they give more room than straight full size wrenches

they are not necessary, but convenient, and I have used them on other projects
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Report this Post11-23-2020 09:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Thunderstruck GTSend a Private Message to Thunderstruck GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by ZaraSpOOk:


both come in handy for the two rear AC bolts/nuts, also the S wrenches if you are removing the bolts for the transmission mounts
I may be forgetting other places, in the tight quarters of the Fiero, they give more room than straight full size wrenches

they are not necessary, but convenient, and I have used them on other projects


Got it.

Funny...… I have 4 large toolboxes full of tools and not 1 curved wrench. Which goes to prove, you never have enough tools.

Although I have nothing good to say about Chiwaneese tools, I will buy Harbor Fright for that "once & done" time.

Thanks for the tip.
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Report this Post11-29-2020 07:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ZaraSpOOkClick Here to Email ZaraSpOOkSend a Private Message to ZaraSpOOkEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
since somebody asked, here is my Harbor Freight cradle dolly with cradle sitting on it
a 2x6 is screwed UNDER the dolly, two dollies lengthwiseand far enough away so frame sits on dolly

I use wood screws so that I can disassemble when finished, you can see three of the heads if you look close

then two more dollys at right angles attached to each other and the 2x6 between the other two dollies with two 1x4's, it looks like the muffler is sitting on the dolly, but it's really the frame in front
Opposite side is the same (no pic)

[This message has been edited by ZaraSpOOk (edited 11-29-2020).]

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