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'84 select cable diagnosis - no 3rd or 4th gear by snyderman
Started on: 10-13-2020 11:35 AM
Replies: 14 (317 views)
Last post by: fierosound on 10-27-2020 02:26 PM
snyderman
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Report this Post10-13-2020 11:35 AM Click Here to See the Profile for snydermanSend a Private Message to snydermanEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Trying to diagnose the issue. Can someone tell me if the shifter is supposed to be able to be moved to the right as it'll go left and straight but that's it....thank you


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pmbrunelle
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Report this Post10-13-2020 12:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for pmbrunelleSend a Private Message to pmbrunelleEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
You should read this currently active thread:
//www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/144450.html

No, the shifter cannot move any further right relative to its resting Neutral position.

See photo:

[This message has been edited by pmbrunelle (edited 10-13-2020).]

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snyderman
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Report this Post10-13-2020 06:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for snydermanSend a Private Message to snydermanEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thanks. After further diagnosis I believe it's the select cable. I disconnect it at both ends and all seems OK until I put the cable back on which locks things up again. Ordered one from RD.
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Report this Post10-23-2020 05:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for snydermanSend a Private Message to snydermanEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'm Back. I installed 2 new cables from Rodney Dickman but still can't get it into 3rd or 4th. What should I check next?
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Patrick
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Report this Post10-23-2020 05:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by snyderman:

...still can't get it into 3rd or 4th. What should I check next?


With the cables disconnected (to take the shifter out of the equation), can you move the levers on the transmission into the appropriate positions for 3rd and 4th gear?
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Report this Post10-24-2020 12:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for snydermanSend a Private Message to snydermanEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Hi Patrick

Can you reconfirm what the correct positions are?

Thank you
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snyderman
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Report this Post10-24-2020 04:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for snydermanSend a Private Message to snydermanEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

snyderman

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Guys this is what I've got. I don't know what the positions mean so any help is appreciated.

PIC 1
When right lever is in the up position facing the front, the left lever has 3 positions.


PIC 2
When right lever is in the middle(no resistance) the left lever still has 3 positions.


PIC 3
When right lever is pushed towards the back, the left lever has 2 positions.
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Report this Post10-24-2020 05:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for pmbrunelleSend a Private Message to pmbrunelleEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I don't really follow what the arrows means on your position diagram... but that's OK. The number of positions appears to be correct.

What you call the "right lever" = select lever. Selects between the different shift forks. Corresponds to left-right movement of the cabin-mounted gearstick.
What you call the "left lever" = shift lever. Shifts the selected shift fork in or out of gear. Corresponds to front-back movement of the cabin-mounted gearstick.

I have drawn the movements of the ball studs on which the shift and select cable ends snap onto. The paths they take are in green, with distinct positions shown with green circles.

You seem to have figured out the select lever.
The shift lever moves in an arc.



 
quote
Originally posted by snyderman:
PIC 1
When right lever is in the up position facing the front, the left lever has 3 positions.

The three possible positions of the shift lever in this instance:
3
N
4

 
quote
Originally posted by snyderman:
When right lever is in the middle(no resistance) the left lever still has 3 positions.

The three possible positions of the shift lever in this instance:
1
N
2

 
quote
Originally posted by snyderman:
When right lever is pushed towards the back, the left lever has 2 positions.

The two possible positions of the shift lever in this instance:
R
N

So far, from what you're describing, nothing looks broken.

Most of the left-right feel (the reverse wall, and the rightwards spring action towards 3-4) in the gearstick is created by springs in the shifter assembly in the cabin itself. These forces are not generated within the transmission, except for a rather weak reverse wall spring.

When I setup the select cable on a 4-speed Fiero, I use a bunjee cord to pull the gearstick against the reverse wall that originates from the shifter assembly in the cabin. Then, I shift the transmission into 1st or 2nd gear. Then, I tighten the nut on the select cable ball stud.

You may want to call a Zoom meeting for later this evening, this stuff is hard to explain.

Have you ever driven a working 4-speed Muncie Fiero? Do you know how it's supposed to work when everything is in proper working order?

[This message has been edited by pmbrunelle (edited 10-24-2020).]

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snyderman
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Report this Post10-25-2020 12:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for snydermanSend a Private Message to snydermanEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Mr. Brunelle

Thanks for your post. This is my first Munci 4 speed and until two weeks ago i never had problems with it in over 12 years. I tried your trick with the bungee and still no 3rd and 4th. So based on what you have told me and what I know so far, I'm thinking it may be the shifter. Is this hole supposed to be connected to something?. I'll PM you as I have a short video of me running through the gears and not finding 3rd or 4th.
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Report this Post10-25-2020 03:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for pmbrunelleSend a Private Message to pmbrunelleEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Nothing goes in that hole. I don't know what purpose it serves... perhaps setup of something at the factory?
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Report this Post10-26-2020 06:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for pmbrunelleSend a Private Message to pmbrunelleEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
So from your previous test with the cables disconnected, you were able to set the select lever to three positions:
Up (3-N-4)
Middle (1-N-2)
Back (R-N)

In the video with the cables connected, there no longer seems to be distinct "Up" and "Middle" positions.

It would appear that connecting the transmission to the cables introduces the problem.

It follows that there's either:
A problem in the shifter
and/or
A problem in how the cables are connected/adjusted
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Patrick
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Report this Post10-26-2020 07:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by snyderman:

This is my first Munci 4 speed and until two weeks ago i never had problems with it in over 12 years.


You've been driving this car for 12 years and you're not sure how far the shifter is supposed to move? I'm just a little bit confused by your posts.

 
quote
Originally posted by snyderman:

Can someone tell me if the shifter is supposed to be able to be moved to the right as it'll go left and straight but that's it...



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Report this Post10-27-2020 10:13 AM Click Here to See the Profile for snydermanSend a Private Message to snydermanEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Patrick

Driving the car for 12 years I certainly know how to shift but not necessarily how it worked. It stumped me that I could no longer move the shifter left and right. With your help and pmbrunelle I understand it now.
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Report this Post10-27-2020 10:32 AM Click Here to See the Profile for snydermanSend a Private Message to snydermanEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

snyderman

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Member since Nov 2008
Mr. Brunelle

After your latest post I focused on the shifter and for the first time thought I'd take it out and see if I could see anything broken. What I discovered was that there as a 1/4" screw caught on the bottom of the mechanism that prevented the shifter from moving left and right! Once I removed the screw, i cleaned off the shifter and vacuumed any other crap in the shifter hole, I put drill bits in the two alignment holes as suggested and reinstalled the shifter back into the car. I then connected the cables on the shifter and then on the tranny. When both cables are installed on the shifter, there is only one way the cables on the levers were able to be connected which happens to be in the 3rd gear position. I tightened up the cables and removed the pins and I was good to go.

I know I was told to check if there was any debris in way of the shifter and I did look. But I didn't think to remove it to check underneath. My bad and lesson learned.

Thanks for all your help and my word of advice to anyone who may have the same issue is to remove the cables at the shifter and remove the shifter itself before diagnosing further. Clean it off and align it as per below before doing anything else - like ordering cables from RD thinking that was the problem.

Stay safe.

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Report this Post10-27-2020 02:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierosoundClick Here to visit fierosound's HomePageSend a Private Message to fierosoundEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by snyderman:

What I discovered was that there as a 1/4" screw caught on the bottom of the mechanism that prevented the shifter from moving left and right!

I know I was told to check if there was any debris in way of the shifter and I did look. But I didn't think to remove it to check underneath. My bad and lesson learned.


Good that you looked a second time.


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[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 10-27-2020).]

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