So, my 2.8 probably doesn't have much life left. Coolant was leaking from an exhaust bolt and majority of guys said it's dead/dying. So to prepare for the inevitable, I need to get a new engine ready for next spring.

I currently have a 3.4 in my dad's garage, half ripped apart. Never done a full rebuild before, but I was interested in doing so. I wasn't necessarily planning a full rebuild, but I wanted to get deep into it to make sure the engine lasts a while when I put it in. Again, not sure what I'm doing really so I'm kinda learning as I go.

Now, I checked kijiji and a guy is selling two 3.8 SC Series 2 engines, I assume for 600 CAD each. Listing is 600 but unlikely it's 300 each.

I paid 500 CAD for the 3.4 I have. To pull from the wreckers here yourself would cost 350+ for any engine.

I'm really starting to lean towards the 3.8 now, as I could always put the 3.4 into my dad's jeep or save it for another Fiero one day. My main issue is sourcing the parts for the swap. Everything is crazy expensive for me if I order from american companies/people, so I have no idea how much it will actually cost me in the long run. Generally a 3.8 swapped Fiero sells for 6k and up here, depending on quality and other things like wheels etc. My dad was an auto-body man for years, so he's able to weld and fabricate some things.

Sorry for the generic "engine swap" thread. I know there are lots, it just seems like it will be way more expensive to do a 3.8 swap in CAD

The cost of the engine pales in comparison to the money spent to get it installed in the car...

I would pretty much ignore the initial purchase price of the engine, as it has negligible impact on the overall project cost.

Here is a random selection of expenses that come to mind:
Broken drill bits
Ordering the wrong parts
Paper towels
WD-40
Sandpaper, thinner, paint
Cutoff wheels, saw blades
Raw metals for fabrication
Welding gas
Welding wire
Wirebrushes
Parts/gaskets for the engine
Machine shop work for the engine
Special flywheel for 3.8 swap
New clutch
Exhaust U bends
Electrical wires
Harness tape
Nylon split loom
Crimp terminals, connector shells, cable seals
Paintbrushes
Not-so-surprise brokerage fees.
Fuel injector cleaning
AN hoses, fittings
Sandblasting

A consensus between myself and two Fiero friends (local to me) is that largely doing the work yourself, it's hard to get a swap done for less than 5k.

And that's a sort of theoretical lower bound; in practice it could be more.

For example, my friend did a dual exhaust with two Pontiac Firefly mufflers, and it sounds like a pair of Fireflies. So, the exhaust is to be scrapped and redone. $$$

I don't have a swap, just a modded V6. Everything adds up. I just decided that I was using the wrong type of hose to transport hot oil.

So, last week I went to Summit Racing and ordered:
6' of PTFE Aeroquip hose
90° hose end
straight hose end
5x spare compression ferrules
tax+duty
shipping
$141 delivered to my doorstep

And that's the second time I changed my mind about that hose...

Another thing, my clutch. I spent about $550 to get the Fiero Store RAM HD clutch. It slipped. About $550 down the toilet, then I had to spend $692 to get a proper replacement.

[This message has been edited by pmbrunelle (edited 10-06-2020).]

Thanks for the input pmbrunelle. I know the engine cost itself isn't that big of a chunk of the total, just figured I'd throw some numbers out.

As for sandpaper, saw blades, and all tools, I have a stockpile. Dad picks up stuff for cheap at yard sales constantly over the years so basically anything I need he'll have. Not to say they are free, but some of the stuff was darn close lol.

My biggest concern for both swaps is the ECU. I know the 3.4 can run off the stock ECU, but I'd want to have it run better, and will probably do the 7730 with a knock sensor and maaaybe DIS. I've heard some Ford injectors are supposed to be a great match for the 3.4 as well.

The clutch for the 3.8 is a big ouch to the wallet. That's the kind of input I'm looking for.

Thanks again!

side note, I ordered a helicoil kit to attempt to fix the exhaust coolant leak on my 2.8 even temporarily, and someone jacked my parcel when it was left at the front door. So not too happy about that

I don't view DIS as so necessary for performance, it's more to have the reliability of eliminating moving parts from the ignition system.

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To avoid catching the virus, delivery drivers knock, drop the parcel, and, run. So thieves now follow UPS/FedEx trucks to pick up the parcels at the doorsteps. Gotta pick up the parcels immediately...

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I looked through the expense log of my project, and here are some higher-dollar items which could be applicable to a "generic swap":

RODNEY DICKMAN
470 Rodney Dickman Idler pulley kit + shift cables
100 Rodney Dickman True cold air kit

EXHAUST
1862 Summit Racing (split over 7 separate orders) U-bends, bellows couplings, V-bands, including replacement parts for when I screwed up cutting/welding. Mostly all stainless steel.
15 Local metal shop 3/8" round rods to make hangers
42 Rockauto 6x rubber exhaust hangers
158 eBay Rod bender Huth HMRB6017
100 amazon 10 lb spool of 309LSi MIG wire

This is still a lower-end estimate on the exhaust, I'm neglecting gaskets (two sets), rivnuts, abrasives.

ENGINE WORK
680 Crower Cams Cam + spring + lifter kit
564 The Wrench Monkey Pistons, rings, cam bearings.
832 Injections & Moteurs Bourassa Engine block machining
229 Injecteur Précision Injection cleaning service; didn't save me much money versus buying six new ones, since one injector was unrepairable. I had to spend maybe $80 for the single replacement.

Rebuilding the actual engine itself cost a bunch... There was maybe another 1k or 2k there of Rockauto.

ROCKER ARM DEBACLE
232 Summit Racing Comp Cams Magnum 1.52 roller-tip rockers and some other small hardware
264 Summit Racing Comp Cams Magnum 1.52 roller-tip rockers
141 Rockauto Melling stamped rockers, 4x Wix oil filters

Comp Cams Magnum rockers suck; it took me two failed sets in a row before I clued in and got stock replacements from Melling. Also with each rocker arm failure I did extra oil changes to flush out the bits of metal, so that was more $$$.

TUNING RELATED
1393 DIYAutoTune MegaSquirt 3 ECU + harnesses
192 14point7.com Wideband oxygen sensor kit

Depending on the engine computer you choose, you may need to purchase a laptop computer (with an SSD due to mechanical shock) to tune the car...
Also tuning software.

So, to summarize the most expensive items in my case:
1. Exhaust. Reusing stock exhaust would save money, as would using mild steel parts, and avoiding the use of bellows, or V-bands.
2. Engine rebuilding.
3. Computer/tuning setup. The need for a wideband depends on your approach to tuning.

[This message has been edited by pmbrunelle (edited 10-09-2020).]

I would stick with the 3.4 (I've done a couple of updated cars). Simpler and a very decent bump up from the 2.8.

If you want to go with the 3.8, you shouldnt need to do any engine work to it, as it either runs or doesn't. If you have a bottom end issue, dont touch the bottom end, just get another block (you can use an NA 3.8 if you have a SC 3.8 and swap all the parts over, unless you want big power, the 3.8 NA will be fine).

Pro tip for ordering from the states from another Canadian, make sure they ship USPS. The brokerage fees are at most HST (assuming you have that in Manitoba) of the purchase price typically. All the other couriers will completely gouge you on brokerage fees when you order from the states.

You need to decide what transmission you plan on using as well, that may have a significant cost on what you are doing. But clutch and flywheel will add up quickly if you plan to stay manual.

I've got 3 or so junkyard pulls that I don't intend to rebuild and would use. Two are N*s and one is a 3800sc. Actually I've got another 3800sc I pulled from a Buick I drove home from down the interstate. 60 miles or so. Was his daily (40 mile per day daily) until the trans drive chain started slipping too much.

quote Originally posted by OntarioKev: Pro tip for ordering from the states from another Canadian, make sure they ship USPS. The brokerage fees are at most HST (assuming you have that in Manitoba) of the purchase price typically. All the other couriers will completely gouge you on brokerage fees when you order from the states.

Depends on the vendor.

If it's a vendor that knows about selling to Canada, they can ship via UPS or FedEx and there won't be a problem.

For those vendors that know what they're doing, it will be normally be stated "duty and delivery paid" during checkout; i.e. the responsibility of the exporter.

Here are my goto suppliers that I know I can order online from without surprises (selecting DDP at checkout):
eBay sellers via the Global Shipping Program
amazon.ca
Summit Racing
Mouser
Digi-Key
Rockauto
OSH Park

Rodney Dickman normally goes smoothly. He uses USPS I recall.
Fiero Store usually is OK, depending on checkout options...

For other unproven vendors, either I avoid them, or (if the part is worth the trouble) I accept the risk of brokerage and set $200 on the side for the reaming.