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B&M supercharger by Coolkoolpyle
Started on: 10-01-2020 09:31 PM
Replies: 53 (1066 views)
Last post by: jdv on 11-19-2020 05:56 PM
coolink13
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Report this Post10-09-2020 04:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for coolink13Click Here to Email coolink13Send a Private Message to coolink13Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I am very interested in this topic. Thanks for posting. I will be following your progress and information.
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cmechmann
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Report this Post10-10-2020 08:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cmechmannClick Here to Email cmechmannSend a Private Message to cmechmannEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Forgive me that I have not read all of the replies. However. There is a lot of aftermarket stuff for 60 degree Chevy engines. But that I know of there was only one stock turbo 2.8. That was the McLaren edition Grand prix 1989-90. And with that, the hp rating was only up to 205. That was also the aluminum head DIS engines. With not much more increase in weight you could put in a stock Series II n/a 3800 with wiring and ECM. Then you would end up with the same horse power with more torque without having it boosted.
Though you could beef up the internals of the 2.8 to take boost, you still have to deal with getting everything tuned in to get it right. I have used 2.8 stock, Series 1 3800 SC, Series II 3800SC and Series II 3800n/a. The Series II 3800n/a has been the most dependable. Not 1 hickup in the last 40,000 miles.
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Coolkoolpyle
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Report this Post10-10-2020 09:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for CoolkoolpyleClick Here to Email CoolkoolpyleSend a Private Message to CoolkoolpyleEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Actually

Turbos are not used in top fuel
and
most likely never will be

The potential is certainly there
but

The intake well is far too big

Super unsafe.

Nitromethane is old school rocket fuel.
Got us to the moon
.

The length of intake tract would store so much potentially explosive gasses that a hiccup could be a big boom.

The superchargers are mounted on top and fuel is mixid as it passes thru.
It passes through a intercooler and then into the manifold.

The physical volume of pressurized and mixed fuel and air is fairly small

However with a turbo the fuel will be required to be injected far enough down the system to achieve a consistent mixture before combustion.

This has not been done while maintaining a save volume of combustion charge.

Top fuel is in the 5000hp range


Look at it this way

To make that much power you must burn enough fuel to support it
With the cubic inches they can run if a cylinder miss fires several times in a row it will be holding so much fuel it will hydraulically lock up and the engine explodes.

Violenlly

That much fuel must be evenly and we'll mixed with the air or it will not fire properly

It's not that turbos wouldn't have a definite competitive edge

It's that their just not safe to use in this way

It's already a big risk with a compressor

Gas
and
Alcohol don't have those problems so turbos are allowed


Do well too.
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Coolkoolpyle
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Report this Post10-10-2020 09:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for CoolkoolpyleClick Here to Email CoolkoolpyleSend a Private Message to CoolkoolpyleEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'm looking at these early heads

Combustion chambers are big
.not particularly well designed

I'm stuck with em because the supercharger kit has a early style manifold

Iron heads are my preference for street engines.

Bottom line

They blow headgaskets far less frequently

There's a issue with aluminum
It expands quicker
and more than iron

That means there is some movement between the two during warm up

It slowly erodes the gasket over time.

Don't like the metric valve stems

I ream them to std SBC size then install guide liners..

Bronze guides
Significantly less cost
REPLACE ME without having to re cut seats.

Beautiful invention.

I'm at the exhaust now
So I'm doing a little research as to how big a seat I can stuff in this casting
bowl hog the port to the seat and not hit water.

I'm currently waiting on delivery of a few castings to experiment on..

I'd like to give them 1.600 stainless exhaust

So

More coming on that subject

The spring pockets are nice and meaty
I'm going to have no trouble getting a nice set of double springs to fit with proper seat pressure.

When I settle on a part number and what I did to make them fit I'll post that too

With a supercharger

I'm not going to modify the intake size beyond what I have to for a SBC 1.700 intake valve

I got boost

Don't need flow
Need port velocity

Small valve delivers that.

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Coolkoolpyle
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Report this Post10-10-2020 10:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for CoolkoolpyleClick Here to Email CoolkoolpyleSend a Private Message to CoolkoolpyleEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Coolkoolpyle

27 posts
Member since Sep 2020
I'm looking at these early heads

Combustion chambers are big
.not particularly well designed

I'm stuck with em because the supercharger kit has a early style manifold

Iron heads are my preference for street engines.

Bottom line

They blow headgaskets far less frequently

There's a issue with aluminum
It expands quicker
and more than iron

That means there is some movement between the two during warm up

It slowly erodes the gasket over time.

Don't like the metric valve stems

I ream them to std SBC size then install guide liners..

Bronze guides
Significantly less cost
REPLACE ME without having to re cut seats.

Beautiful invention.

I'm at the exhaust now
So I'm doing a little research as to how big a seat I can stuff in this casting
bowl hog the port to the seat and not hit water.

I'm currently waiting on delivery of a few castings to experiment on..

I'd like to give them 1.600 stainless exhaust

So

More coming on that subject

The spring pockets are nice and meaty
I'm going to have no trouble getting a nice set of double springs to fit with proper seat pressure.

When I settle on a part number and what I did to make them fit I'll post that too

With a supercharger

I'm not going to modify the intake size beyond what I have to for a SBC 1.700 intake valve

I got boost

Don't need flow
Need port velocity

Small valve delivers that.

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Coolkoolpyle
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Report this Post10-10-2020 10:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for CoolkoolpyleClick Here to Email CoolkoolpyleSend a Private Message to CoolkoolpyleEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Also

I'm using the holley sniper EFI

I hate to sound like a advertisement here
but...


Get one.

These things are by far the most practical and useful fuel system I've ever used

Computer asks some basic questions about the engine
and

It takes over

Self tuning and learning like nothing I've ever encountered..

Take it off and put it on a different engine and it relearns that one..

No longer is tuning a black magic art you can't really do without very expensive equipment and extensive computer and fuel system knowledge

Just plug and play

Computer will extract every pony it can while property maintaining a a acceptable fuel air ratio

It's literally the magic wand of fuel systems if you ask me.
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Coolkoolpyle
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Report this Post10-10-2020 10:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for CoolkoolpyleClick Here to Email CoolkoolpyleSend a Private Message to CoolkoolpyleEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Johns4.9

Please post some pictures.
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Johns 4.9
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Report this Post10-12-2020 11:52 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Johns 4.9Click Here to visit Johns 4.9's HomePageClick Here to Email Johns 4.9Send a Private Message to Johns 4.9Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Looking forward to your build. This is a pic of mine.
Cheers,


Good morning Coolkoolpyle,

John
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Will
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Report this Post10-14-2020 09:13 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by DimeMachine:

I wouldn't SC a 2.8 fiero. I have seen more 2.8's spin rod bearings for no good reason through the decades. I have had 2 of them in my life and heard of plenty others. 3800SC is the ticket IMO.


The crankshaft oiling system changes that made it into Fieros for '88 fixed that. My original-engine Formula with 230,000 miles sees 6000 RPM every time I drive it.

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 10-14-2020).]

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Coolkoolpyle
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Report this Post10-14-2020 09:34 AM Click Here to See the Profile for CoolkoolpyleClick Here to Email CoolkoolpyleSend a Private Message to CoolkoolpyleEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Johns 4.9:

Looking forward to your build. This is a pic of mine.
Cheers,


Good morning Coolkoolpyle,

John


What a thing of pure beauty!

The all aluminum V8 engine is exactly the direction I would take if I were doing a swap myself.

Too much weight in the back would undoubtedly create handling problems but this combo I would guess is absolutely thrilling to drive.

What were some of the difficulties installing this engine into the chassis?

Do you have any pictures of body mods you made if any?

Very cool.
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Will
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Report this Post10-14-2020 10:43 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Coolkoolpyle:

That's why I machine .080 off the outside of a SBC rod and use arp rod bolts

Same in every other way other than the needed removal of the side material and pressing in a nice bushing so the wrist pin floats in the small end of the rod..

Modify a SBC main girdle (just cut off the front section and the rest fits like it was designed for the 60degree engines)
and use some arp studs and you got a bottom end that will take 350+ hp all day long.


How do you narrow the SBC rods? I've seen it done by ID chucking the big end in a lathe, but always curious about other ideas.

Interesting tidbit about the SBC main girdle. It's pretty wild that the two engines use the same main bolt pattern.


 
quote
Originally posted by Coolkoolpyle:

Machine the heads to take SBC screw in studs
Use SBF 1.6 roller rockers and SBC valves and you got a fierce top end to match.



Another interesting tidbit. I'd heard about screw in rocker studs, but not SBF rockers.

 
quote
Originally posted by Coolkoolpyle:

I'm a pretty busy guy but maybe over the winter I'll find the time to show the 60degree guys the tricks to power and long life.
(there are a couple of oiling system mods that are game changers in the bottom end)
Especially the 2.8.

Maybe I should do one of those "how to Hotrod the 60* V6"
books you see on the more popular engines.

In any case I'm excited to get started

More than anything
I really enjoy projects like this.


I'm curious about the oiling modification.

Maybe you should publish a book.

I live for building, and what's important is that you build what you like.

 
quote
Originally posted by fierosound:

GM's Chevy Power Manual when engine came out.
http://fieroinfo.com/manual...0V6_Power_Manual.pdf



I might even have one around, but the magic of modern technology makes that superfluous.

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 10-14-2020).]

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Blacktree
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Report this Post10-14-2020 11:20 AM Click Here to See the Profile for BlacktreeClick Here to visit Blacktree's HomePageClick Here to Email BlacktreeSend a Private Message to BlacktreeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
ARP makes rocker studs for conversion to SBC rockers. Then you can use narrow-body SBC rockers in your V6. It's a common mod, and fairly inexpensive. With the conversion studs, and some aftermarket springs and retainers, my 3.4 V6 valvetrain can handle up to .550" valve lift. No head machining necessary. It uses the same heads as the 2.8 V6.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/arp-100-7201

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fierosound
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Report this Post10-14-2020 12:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierosoundClick Here to visit fierosound's HomePageClick Here to Email fierosoundSend a Private Message to fierosoundEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fierosound:

GM's Chevy Power Manual when engine came out.
http://fieroinfo.com/manual...0V6_Power_Manual.pdf


 
quote
Originally posted by Will:

I might even have one around, but the magic of modern technology makes that superfluous.


Putting SBC rods and valves in is nothing new and was covered in that book plus other guides.
But I agree that things like roller rockers and EFI etc. have made some progress.

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 10-14-2020).]

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jdv
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Report this Post11-19-2020 05:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jdvClick Here to Email jdvSend a Private Message to jdvEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Bump for boost
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