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So I am getting this Fiero, want to make it LS4 with an F40.. by Franked
Started on: 07-09-2020 10:33 PM
Replies: 15 (390 views)
Last post by: Will on 07-28-2020 10:21 AM
Franked
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Report this Post07-09-2020 10:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FrankedSend a Private Message to FrankedEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
So I am buying this 88 kit car, 328 GTB emblems on it, kinda looks like a Mera, but the bumpers are body color blended in, not separate, not black like the Mera bumpers.
The problem is that I am in California, not a free state, we have the stupidest smog rules here. You have to get a smog inspection done every 2 years if the car is newer than 1975.
I may try to register this car in Nevada, at a friend's house, or Oregon at another friend's house, but would prefer to be able to register it legally in CA, anyone dealt with a V8 swap and California's referee smog? I am going to put up a picture or 3 in a bit..
Thanks in advance, Frank
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Report this Post07-09-2020 11:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for IMSA GTClick Here to Email IMSA GTSend a Private Message to IMSA GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
You're probably in for a world of pain

First, I believe you need to register the car as special construction. Then if I remember correctly, they only issue 500 special construction permits per year so you need to be on a waiting list.

After that, you need to install the engine, same transmission, and the same exhaust to pass inspection. Curly (Madcurl) on here did that a swap with his car many years ago.

He tried to put dual exhaust but they failed him so he had to go back to the single, Cadillac exhaust.

Then they required him to have all the check engine and diagnostic lights so he had to add the factory cluster to the passenger side dash.


It's not easy to do here in Crapifornia.

[This message has been edited by IMSA GT (edited 07-10-2020).]

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Franked
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Report this Post07-10-2020 02:48 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FrankedSend a Private Message to FrankedEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Well, that sounds like no fun at all.
Thanks for the info.
I will get it smogged with the original engine, Maybe if I had another whole cradle, I could build my new badass stuff on it, and swap it in after smogging, swap it back every 2 years for that time. How hard would it be to switch? Make the whole engine/ harness/ecu removable? Right now the car is 2.8/auto, so I have to put different pedals in as well.
That would be cool, like a transformer,
1) here is stock, with struts and skinny tires, 120 hp auto,
2)here is BETTER THAN STOCK,
Maybe custom tube cradle like Fieroguru was doing. Custom with coilovers , better geometry wider tires and 450 hp with a 6 spd.
I could drive the car around while I built the modular drivetrain section...
Maybe use the donor car axles, hubs, build custom arms. Brainstorming here, probably pipe dreams, I am not that good a fabricator. Sounds cool though.
If I could make it so the swap took an hour or less, I would be happy..
I have to pull my programmer out of my duramax every 2 years for smog, takes less than 10 min, and about 15 going back
Frank
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Franked
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Report this Post07-10-2020 02:57 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FrankedSend a Private Message to FrankedEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I thought about this for 5 minutes or so, might be difficult swapping out the shifter and everything, so maybe a getrag swap first?
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Report this Post07-10-2020 06:55 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
You should check out Rickady88GT's build thread. He has a CA smog approved LS4/4T65e-hd and detailed all the items he had to include in the swap to make it pass.
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum3/HTML/000114.html

Manual transmissions were never offered with the LS4, so getting a LS4/F40 smog approved in CA without the special permit will be nearly impossible. There might be a little more wiggle room with an LS1, LS2, LS3, LS7 as they were offered with manuals, but they will be more expensive to install (not that the LS4 is inexpensive to install).
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qwikgta
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Report this Post07-10-2020 10:35 AM Click Here to See the Profile for qwikgtaClick Here to Email qwikgtaSend a Private Message to qwikgtaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Please do yourself a favor and just install a 3800SC / 4T65 trans. its a lot cheaper, there is a lot more aftermarket support, you can keep the car an auto, it will be plenty fast. Tons of support here on Pennocks, anything you can think of has been done, you can buy used parts here in the Mall, and it will be up and driving in a few months.

Good luck.
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J Gunsett
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Report this Post07-10-2020 12:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for J GunsettClick Here to visit J Gunsett's HomePageClick Here to Email J GunsettSend a Private Message to J GunsettEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Franked, when I lived CA (about 25 years ago) I had a friend that had a Vega. Every 2 years on a weekend he would swap out the 427ci and put the original engine and trans back in, get it Smog inspected and the next weekend reversed the process. I am very happy I left that state. Good luck.

Jack
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Franked
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Report this Post07-10-2020 03:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FrankedSend a Private Message to FrankedEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by qwikgta:

Please do yourself a favor and just install a 3800SC / 4T65 trans. its a lot cheaper, there is a lot more aftermarket support, you can keep the car an auto, it will be plenty fast. Tons of support here on Pennocks, anything you can think of has been done, you can buy used parts here in the Mall, and it will be up and driving in a few months.

Good luck.


It's not about the cheaper, although if I listen to a buddy of mine it would be, we talk about the "Power of the Cheap" like it's the Force in Star Wars all the time. I found an entire (bad trans, 165k miles) 08 GP GXP for 1300 around here. I Really like LS engines. this would get me the whole car (again, bad trans) for the electronics, ECU, BCM. I think I might like to try incorporating those axles/hubs/spindles into my car, I really don't know, I haven't taken my first Fiero apart yet..
I also REALLY like what Fieroguru has done with his ls4/F40, and the links, coilovers, Brakes etc he has. I was thinking more displacement instead of the turbo, with a stroked rotating assembly, and boring the block to the 3.898(.007 over 3.905) LS1 specs, this makes a 383, I know a guy an hour away putting 525hp to the wheels in a late 90s mustang with a 383 LS like that.
My issue is not the money, it's the smog work in CA, so if I can register it in another state, or an address without the bi-annual inspections(my jeep lives in one of those places, not smog legal after I put a TBI-chevy 350 instead of the TBI converted, CARB legal, straight six that made less than 100hp) Once I had the address changed, they no longer require inspections, so the idea is to smog it with the stock setup, once, and then make it my way..

That being said, I would expect to end up 10k plus getting that whole LS4 cradle/drivetrain built, for discussion's sake. How much power would a 3800SC make?, and how much would you estimate parts would cost? I do all my own labor, with the exception being machine work, I have a tubing bender from making offroad cages for a couple medium-ish rock crawlers years ago, I do my own welding, cutting, grinding, and re-welding, do my own wiring(hate it)
I'm going to look at the mall a little right now....
and specs on the 3800SC..
Frank

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Rickady88GT
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Report this Post07-10-2020 11:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rickady88GTClick Here to Email Rickady88GTSend a Private Message to Rickady88GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Franked:

So I am buying this 88 kit car, 328 GTB emblems on it, kinda looks like a Mera, but the bumpers are body color blended in, not separate, not black like the Mera bumpers.
The problem is that I am in California, not a free state, we have the stupidest smog rules here. You have to get a smog inspection done every 2 years if the car is newer than 1975.
I may try to register this car in Nevada, at a friend's house, or Oregon at another friend's house, but would prefer to be able to register it legally in CA, anyone dealt with a V8 swap and California's referee smog? I am going to put up a picture or 3 in a bit..
Thanks in advance, Frank


I did my LS4 purely for the sound and look of a V8.
The power is good but the looks it gets when the deck lid is up makes it a cool swap. BUT when people yell at you "what do you got in that thing?" at stop lights....THAT is why I did the swap. I chose to do my swap without mufflers. I can put a system in it, but I don't think it is all that loud. It used to set off car alarms when I started it. After putting a "glasspack" on it, it does not set off alarms.

[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 07-10-2020).]

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Franked
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Report this Post07-18-2020 06:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FrankedSend a Private Message to FrankedEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Edit: removed double post

[This message has been edited by Franked (edited 07-18-2020).]

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Franked
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Report this Post07-18-2020 06:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FrankedSend a Private Message to FrankedEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Franked

23 posts
Member since Jun 2020
Oops, not sure how I reposted.
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Franked
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Report this Post07-23-2020 01:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FrankedSend a Private Message to FrankedEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Rickady88GT:


I did my LS4 purely for the sound and look of a V8.
The power is good but the looks it gets when the deck lid is up makes it a cool swap. BUT when people yell at you "what do you got in that thing?" at stop lights....THAT is why I did the swap. I chose to do my swap without mufflers. I can put a system in it, but I don't think it is all that loud. It used to set off car alarms when I started it. After putting a "glasspack" on it, it does not set off alarms.



I am thinking LS1, I can fab mounts, and do any cradle mods with my skillset, what I am not able to do is all the custom machine work to make adapter plates, or the water pump adapters So I want an LS1 to F40 setup, meaning, adapter, clutch, flywheel throwout bearing. I think I'd like to get all I can from Fieroguru, and then V8 Archie, or WCF. Some of the stuff is really expensive, so I'll have to see. I am guessing the adapters aren't sold used very often, huh?

Rick, do you know what equipment I would need to smog as say, a 2000 T/A with 6spd?
I'm not sure where to look.

This place is really cool, all the helpful people and advice given, and pictures and documentation is awesome. I just donated 20.00 to Cliff today too. Thanks everyone..
Frank

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Rickady88GT
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Report this Post07-23-2020 02:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rickady88GTClick Here to Email Rickady88GTSend a Private Message to Rickady88GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Franked:


I am thinking LS1, I can fab mounts, and do any cradle mods with my skillset, what I am not able to do is all the custom machine work to make adapter plates, or the water pump adapters So I want an LS1 to F40 setup, meaning, adapter, clutch, flywheel throwout bearing. I think I'd like to get all I can from Fieroguru, and then V8 Archie, or WCF. Some of the stuff is really expensive, so I'll have to see. I am guessing the adapters aren't sold used very often, huh?

Rick, do you know what equipment I would need to smog as say, a 2000 T/A with 6spd?
I'm not sure where to look.

This place is really cool, all the helpful people and advice given, and pictures and documentation is awesome. I just donated 20.00 to Cliff today too. Thanks everyone..
Frank


This is a loaded question. Even tho I have a good idea what you need, the ultimate says is the ref that you take it to. California has some vague guidelines on the website that is setup to layout guidelines.
So it basically requires you to take (for example) an LS1 right out of the donor car as is, no changes to the intake or exhaust systems and put it in the car. So by the letter of the law, this is impossible, and they know it. So they do allow some bending g of the rules such as the exhaust system. You will need all cats in place with stock manifolds, can't happen like that. Call your local ref and see if they will have time to discuss the swap with you.
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Report this Post07-25-2020 02:44 AM Click Here to See the Profile for bootdscSend a Private Message to bootdscEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Nevada registration sounds like a better idea but if you get a ticket in CA and a few months later another one you will be forced to register in CA unless you can prove you don't live there and that the car spends most of it's time out of state. The best option would be to just move somewhere better ;-)
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Report this Post07-27-2020 02:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for msweldonClick Here to Email msweldonSend a Private Message to msweldonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Just a thought... if you want a V8 fiero with manual transmission in CA, you might be able to get a Northstar / Aurora V8 as Shelby sold the 'Series 1' in such a configuration.

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Will
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Report this Post07-28-2020 10:21 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Good luck with those exhaust manifolds and catalysts.
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