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New Upper Ball Joint - extra part needed? by Brent7088
Started on: 07-03-2020 08:28 PM
Replies: 22 (413 views)
Last post by: Patrick on 10-20-2020 02:40 PM
Brent7088
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Report this Post07-03-2020 08:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Brent7088Click Here to Email Brent7088Send a Private Message to Brent7088Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'm installing new upper front ball joints and trying to figure out if the metal spacer that came in the set is necessary to install with it. I didn't remove one on the old ball joints so I personally don't think it's needed. I can see how it would be installed if I did add it, but it would not sit flush against the base of the mounting area (there would be a space in between). Please let me know what you think....





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Report this Post07-03-2020 08:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierosoundClick Here to visit fierosound's HomePageClick Here to Email fierosoundSend a Private Message to fierosoundEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
It goes underneath the control arm to hold the grease boot in place.
It's thin enough to form into place when ball joint bolts are tightened.

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[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 07-03-2020).]

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Brent7088
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Report this Post07-03-2020 11:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Brent7088Click Here to Email Brent7088Send a Private Message to Brent7088Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thanks FS - That must really be a super tight fit then to be flush against the underside of the ball joint. I just didn't really think it was necessary to put on since the old one didn't have one; I'll bolt it in either way.

[This message has been edited by Brent7088 (edited 07-03-2020).]

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IMSA GT
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Report this Post07-03-2020 11:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for IMSA GTClick Here to Email IMSA GTSend a Private Message to IMSA GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Here's a picture of one removed. It does indeed fit.

[This message has been edited by IMSA GT (edited 07-03-2020).]

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Brent7088
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Report this Post07-04-2020 12:52 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Brent7088Click Here to Email Brent7088Send a Private Message to Brent7088Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thanks IMSA for the info... I'll go ahead and put it on there.
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Brent7088
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Report this Post07-05-2020 12:43 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Brent7088Click Here to Email Brent7088Send a Private Message to Brent7088Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Well I installed the ball joint with the metal collar and tightened down the castle nut and the mounting nuts as much as I possibly could – but as you can see from the pics below, the boot seems to be scrunched up quite a bit from all the pressure. There is also a gap between the BJ mounting area and the control arm with the lip of the boot visible, but I suppose that was to be expected.

Can anyone see what I may have done wrong or forgot to do?




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Patrick
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Report this Post07-05-2020 03:12 AM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Brent7088:

Can anyone see what I may have done wrong or forgot to do?


It's been a long time since I've replaced ball joints, but is there a reason why you have the control arms hanging down so low? I think if you raised the lower control arm, things would look and/or go together much better.
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Report this Post07-05-2020 04:02 AM Click Here to See the Profile for IMSA GTClick Here to Email IMSA GTSend a Private Message to IMSA GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:

It's been a long time since I've replaced ball joints, but is there a reason why you have the control arms hanging down so low? I think if you raised the lower control arm, things would look and/or go together much better.


That's what I'm trying to understand. Whats going on with that extreme angle of the arm....or is that because the sway bar is removed?
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Brent7088
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Report this Post07-05-2020 04:38 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Brent7088Click Here to Email Brent7088Send a Private Message to Brent7088Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Patrick & IMSA - yes, the stabilizer bar was removed to replace that as well. When I went back out in my garage and tried again, it FINALLY dawned on me that that has to be the issue, since that bar helps to hold up the bottom control arm. I had taken it off first before getting the upper ball joint off because I had a tough time getting a wrench on the BJ nuts (left nut is really close to that bar).

Tomorrow I'm going to go ahead and install the new stabilizer bar first before tightening down the ball joint all the way, and I believe that will make all the difference in the world (I should have thought about that from the get go). Thank you for pointing that out to me.

[This message has been edited by Brent7088 (edited 07-05-2020).]

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Brent7088
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Report this Post07-12-2020 02:33 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Brent7088Click Here to Email Brent7088Send a Private Message to Brent7088Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
While installing the new stabilizer link, I wasn't real sure how everything was to be stacked on the bolt. Does this look like everything is in order before I go and tighten it and the ball joint down down all the way?



PS: For anyone installing new stabilizer links, do not order the ACDelco; I ordered one from Rockauto and found out the bolts are about 1.25" too short. I went with Moog and it was a perfect match.
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Patrick
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Report this Post07-12-2020 03:20 AM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
It's difficult with everything in place to tell for sure, but the shoulder on the one end of each rubber bushing goes towards the sway bar and LCA. It's been awhile since I've installed regular sway bar end links... but yes, that looks fine.

If you ever wish to tighten up the front end a bit more (especially if a rear sway bar is installed), try these Zero Lash End Links.

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 07-12-2020).]

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Report this Post07-12-2020 04:25 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Brent7088Click Here to Email Brent7088Send a Private Message to Brent7088Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thank you Patrick, I will consider those if the need ever arises.

Do you think it would be ok to tighten down that stabilizer link before installing the new one on the passenger side - or should they be both tightened down at the same time since they attach to the same sway bar?
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Patrick
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Report this Post07-14-2020 01:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Brent7088:

Do you think it would be ok to tighten down that stabilizer link before installing the new one on the passenger side...


Just leave it loose, as this will more easily allow assembly of the other side.
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Report this Post07-14-2020 05:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Brent7088Click Here to Email Brent7088Send a Private Message to Brent7088Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Yea that's what I was thinking -- will do until I receive the 2nd one... thank you.
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Report this Post10-17-2020 07:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Brent7088Click Here to Email Brent7088Send a Private Message to Brent7088Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I know it’s been awhile since I last posted on this issue (was majorly sidetracked) , but I’m still having the problem of the boot pinching when installing the joint.

Please check out the pics below -- you can see how much the boot is being pinched/squashed on one side. The metal collar which holds the boot against the joint is in place, though not sure if it’s in the correct place:



I’ve searched for scenarios like this online and ran across this forum with someone talking about a similar case with a Chevelle (scrolling down about 6 times displays the paragraph). The guy talks about the way the front end of the car is jacked up may have an effect. Here is where I have my jackstands placed on my car:





Does anyone here have any thoughts or additional advice on what I’m doing wrong here?
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Report this Post10-17-2020 09:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PhatMaxClick Here to Email PhatMaxSend a Private Message to PhatMaxEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Once you get some weight on it the ball joint angle will flatten out. Looks fine to me.

[This message has been edited by PhatMax (edited 10-17-2020).]

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Patrick
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Report this Post10-17-2020 10:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Brent7088:

I know it’s been awhile since I last posted on this issue (was majorly sidetracked) , but I’m still having the problem of the boot pinching when installing the joint.


You've still got the control arms hanging down. If it was me doing this, I'd have a hydraulic jack lifting the lower control arm of the side I'm working on... just enough to level it out while installing the ball joint.

 
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:

It's been a long time since I've replaced ball joints, but is there a reason why you have the control arms hanging down so low? I think if you raised the lower control arm, things would look and/or go together much better.

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Brent7088
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Report this Post10-17-2020 10:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Brent7088Click Here to Email Brent7088Send a Private Message to Brent7088Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Ok - that does make sense. I don't have anything else disconnected at this point, so I just couldn't understand why it still wasn't leveling out.

As Phatmax suggested I could just piece it all together, slap the tire on and see if it all evens out once it's back on the floor. If it doesn't I will jack the control arm up and redo it as you suggested.

Thank you both
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Report this Post10-17-2020 10:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Brent7088:

I don't have anything else disconnected at this point, so I just couldn't understand why it still wasn't leveling out.


What do you think the springs are doing? They're pushing the lower control arms down! And since the weight of the car is not on the suspension, there's nothing resisting the downward pressure of the springs.

Think about it... how would the suspension magically "level out" the way you're doing this?

 
quote
Originally posted by Brent7088:


[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 10-17-2020).]

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Brent7088
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Report this Post10-18-2020 04:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Brent7088Click Here to Email Brent7088Send a Private Message to Brent7088Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Patrick - yea I understand what you're saying.. I wasn't seeing the bigger picture of how it would fall in place after the job was finished. I just kept thinking I was missing something or doing it wrong.. I'll do it your way and finish it up... thank you for setting me straight.
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Will
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Report this Post10-20-2020 09:32 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Brent7088:

I know it’s been awhile since I last posted on this issue (was majorly sidetracked) , but I’m still having the problem of the boot pinching when installing the joint.

Please check out the pics below -- you can see how much the boot is being pinched/squashed on one side. The metal collar which holds the boot against the joint is in place, though not sure if it’s in the correct place:





Why are we seeing the boot in between the ball joint body and control arm?
It looks like you put the boot on the ball joint before you dropped it into the control arm. That's the wrong order of operations.


-Pump enough moly grease into the ball joint that grease starts to come out between the body and the ball.
-Drop the ball joint into the control arm from above.
-Install the boot and metal boot retainer from below.
-Torque the bolts.
-Get an alignment and be sure the tech knows you have slotted ball joints to adjust camber.
-Drive gently home from the alignment shop and *RE*-torque the bolts after the alignment (don't ask me how I know to check this...)

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 10-20-2020).]

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Report this Post10-20-2020 11:57 AM Click Here to See the Profile for PhatMaxClick Here to Email PhatMaxSend a Private Message to PhatMaxEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Nice catch Will ! You are correct.
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Patrick
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Report this Post10-20-2020 02:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:

Why are we seeing the boot in between the ball joint body and control arm?


Perfect example of why it's not only a good idea to post images of the topic at hand, but also why it's great to have many sets of eyes looking at these images!

I kind of thought something looked weird, but I haven't replaced ball joints for a long time... and I thought perhaps it looked strange because the rubber boot was blue and easy to see, whereas a black boot would simply not be as evident. Good job by Will to point out the assembly error!
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