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haltech ecu swap i would appreciate any input advise or ideas please by Eltsyrk
Started on: 07-02-2020 10:25 PM
Replies: 11 (337 views)
Last post by: Blacktree on 07-04-2020 02:21 PM
Eltsyrk
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Report this Post07-02-2020 10:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for EltsyrkSend a Private Message to EltsyrkEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
im in the process of trying to get my fiero to work with a haltech ecu
so far i feel like im decently close but i have run into a road block in my search
for the ecu to calculate rpm it needs a trigger
this trigger comes from a crank position sensor
now the crank position sensor that the 60 degree v6s use is a 7x signal basically every rotation there are 7 groves that the sensor picks up ( 6 equally spaced grooves with 1 groove 10 degrees before the 6th groove) example of 7x crankshaft sensor layout)
there are a few types of setups i can run to get a good crank signal but the one i was informed of currently is the missing tooth signal which requires the following
a signal that can be equally divided by the number of cylinders (side note the more grooves or teeth present the more accurate the ecu can be from what i was informed of)
a place where i can delete a tooth/groove so the haltech knows when a full revolution has been made

again this is currently the only way i have been informed of any imput is greatly appreciated

i have two ideas to get this to work

first idea is to take a crankshaft that fits my engine and to put grooves every 10 degrees (instead of 6 equally spaced grooves plus the 10 degree 7th one) then close to the tdc location of the crankshaft i would not put a groove that would give me my equally spaced grooves and my missing groove
my question with this is whether or not i can make these grooves into the crankshaft and be able to achieve neutral balance again (they would not be alot of material maybe 1/16 inch into the crank maybe 1/8 inch wide) (this process would definitely have a professional cnc machine make the cuts and grooves then the crank would be balanced at a shop)
also could this reduce the structure of the crankshaft

to me this idea is the one i prefer as it makes the engine look stock still and normal from the exterior

my second idea is to add an exterior crank position sensor and ring
this ring would be cnc cut and bolted to the harmonic balancer and a bracket would be made to hold the crank postion sensor
i know this idea has been done before but i would still like to see if idea number one is ok as they probably (maybe) will cost roughly the same in the end as both will require a relatively accurate pickup ring and both also require the cnc machine work

an additional question on top of the already large amount of questions
will the 7x acdelco sensor be able to pick up these modified signals or will i need a new sensor with these setups

please any tips info or anything is greatly appreciated iv come here for assistance any little amount is helpful i have a few other questions to that dont necsarrily pertain to this posts title
which crank shafts will fit the 2.8 liter v6 block
performance between the 2.8 3.1 3.4
block differences between 2.8 3.1 3.4 3100 3400 3500 3900
is there any crank compatibility between those engines

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1986 fiero se 2.8 v6 4 speed

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La fiera
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Report this Post07-02-2020 11:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for La fieraSend a Private Message to La fieraEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I don't know about haltec but MS comes with a wheel decoder and the 2.8, 3.1 and 3.4 reluctor wheels are included in the algorithim.
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pmbrunelle
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Report this Post07-03-2020 08:44 AM Click Here to See the Profile for pmbrunelleSend a Private Message to pmbrunelleEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Well first see if Haltech can work with the 7X wheel as-is.

If you want a 36-1 wheel, cutting new teeth at 10° intervals to fill in the empty spaces is not a bad idea. Be sure to duplicate the stock notch geometry; do not cut shallower notches. If you duplicate the stock notch geometry, then I think the stock GM sensor will work with the 36-1 notch configuration. I have not tested this though.

Nominally speaking, if you position the missing tooth opposite the existing sync tooth, you won't change the balance.

In general, the newer the engine, the more displacement you get, and the better-flowing heads you get; both good things for performance.

Here is a video about the newer blocks:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYgi9fFln-s
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Eltsyrk
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Report this Post07-03-2020 11:45 AM Click Here to See the Profile for EltsyrkSend a Private Message to EltsyrkEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
i have a few concerns with using the ms3 setup but i will consider it if it comes with the 7x gm sensor already in its system
this being my first ecu and i have no experience tuning would anyone on this forum have experience with both that could give me a opinion on which they preferred to work with im currently downloading the software for the ms3. my main concern with the ms3 over haltech is the modules and having to assemble parts to get it to have full functionality. does anyone have any experience with using the ms3 on a 2.8-3.4. also does the mega-squirt have auto tuning capabilities.

pmbrunelle i watched that video of the differences in the engine blocks and i noticed that the 3900 had a reluctor wheel on its crank is that standard for that engine?
do you know if the 3.4 3.1 and 2.8 have interchangeable crankshafts if i wanted to upgrade to a 3.4 could i just change crankshafts or do i need to change engine blocks as well. i say this as i was considering putting the grooves into a 3.4 crankshaft and then installing that into my Pontiac 6000 2.8 engine block that is in the car.

if anyone else has information about the ms3 or more information on the crankshaft modifications that would be amazing i appreciate the help so far guys ill continue to look into the ms3 in the mean time.

Edit: during my research i have found a mircosquirt ecm and was wondering if this could fill my need and if anyone has had any experience with it

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1986 fiero se 2.8 v6 4 speed

[This message has been edited by Eltsyrk (edited 07-03-2020).]

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Eltsyrk
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Report this Post07-03-2020 01:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for EltsyrkSend a Private Message to EltsyrkEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Eltsyrk

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Double posting sorry

[This message has been edited by Eltsyrk (edited 07-03-2020).]

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pmbrunelle
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Report this Post07-03-2020 02:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for pmbrunelleSend a Private Message to pmbrunelleEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have no experience with Haltech, so I cannot say much about it, other than my friend (a local in Canada) used it on his Subaru and liked it. He said that customer service was good at rapidly answering his questions. In the day he could send an email, then during our night (i.e. daytime in Australia), he would receive an answer.

I used an MS3/MS3X on my Fiero with GM7X. Read about my project here:
//www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/142133.html

I did not need to solder modules or anything in my ECU. I used it mostly in the off-the-shelf condition, with some configuration jumpers changed inside.

Tuning of most parameters in MS is "by hand", though there is auto-tuning for the VE table. If you use a MAF you don't need a VE table.

Different years of 60°V6 come with different crank wheels; different sensors are used with the different crank wheels.

Microsquirt is an MS2 that's been shoehorned into a small package. I ran MS2 (with a standard case and V3.0 mainboard) on my previous project, a stock 2.8 V6 Fiero with the stock 7-pin HEI. It worked OK. I used 2 squirts/alternating. I never got cold transients quite perfect, but the car was driveable. I started with MS2/BG code, then I switched over to MS2/Extra, then I ran customized (by myself) MS2/Extra code.

[This message has been edited by pmbrunelle (edited 07-03-2020).]

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Honest Don
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Report this Post07-03-2020 07:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Honest DonSend a Private Message to Honest DonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Microsquirt won’t run a stepper iac as is. I think someone sells a controller that can be added on? Not really a huge deal.

MS2 user here w/HEI
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Eltsyrk
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Report this Post07-03-2020 10:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for EltsyrkSend a Private Message to EltsyrkEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by pmbrunelle:

I have no experience with Haltech, so I cannot say much about it, other than my friend (a local in Canada) used it on his Subaru and liked it. He said that customer service was good at rapidly answering his questions. In the day he could send an email, then during our night (i.e. daytime in Australia), he would receive an answer.

I used an MS3/MS3X on my Fiero with GM7X. Read about my project here:
//www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/142133.html

I did not need to solder modules or anything in my ECU. I used it mostly in the off-the-shelf condition, with some configuration jumpers changed inside.

Tuning of most parameters in MS is "by hand", though there is auto-tuning for the VE table. If you use a MAF you don't need a VE table.

Different years of 60°V6 come with different crank wheels; different sensors are used with the different crank wheels.

Microsquirt is an MS2 that's been shoehorned into a small package. I ran MS2 (with a standard case and V3.0 mainboard) on my previous project, a stock 2.8 V6 Fiero with the stock 7-pin HEI. It worked OK. I used 2 squirts/alternating. I never got cold transients quite perfect, but the car was driveable. I started with MS2/BG code, then I switched over to MS2/Extra, then I ran customized (by myself) MS2/Extra code.



is there any reason for your jumper changes to the mega squirt. were these jumper changes to make the system match what you wanted extra from it or from hardware issues meshing with the vehicle.
I read through some of your project but haven't read through the entire thing yet its an extremely nice build from what I have seen so far and will continue to read through it. thank you for your responce

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1986 fiero se 2.8 v6 4 speed

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Eltsyrk
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Report this Post07-03-2020 10:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for EltsyrkSend a Private Message to EltsyrkEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Eltsyrk

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Member since Feb 2017
 
quote
Originally posted by Honest Don:

Microsquirt won’t run a stepper iac as is. I think someone sells a controller that can be added on? Not really a huge deal.

MS2 user here w/HEI


Do you think switching over for you made an improvement over stock or what you had previously?

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1986 fiero se 2.8 v6 4 speed

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Report this Post07-03-2020 11:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RacerX11Send a Private Message to RacerX11Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
What Haltech model do you have? What ignition setup are you running?
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pmbrunelle
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Report this Post07-03-2020 11:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for pmbrunelleSend a Private Message to pmbrunelleEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Eltsyrk:
is there any reason for your jumper changes to the mega squirt. were these jumper changes to make the system match what you wanted extra from it or from hardware issues meshing with the vehicle.


When you get a new PC, you have to spend a few hours twiddling with the various settings everywhere to make it work for you.

Similarly, MegaSquirts are flexible systems meant to run different kinds of engines, so they need some configuration. Some configuration is on the hardware (other settings are via the tune). It's not hard to do, but you have to open the case. For an example, look here:
http://www.msextra.com/doc/...57_Hardware-1.5.html
At the bottom of the page, it tells you which jumpers need to be installed for that setup.

[This message has been edited by pmbrunelle (edited 07-03-2020).]

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Report this Post07-04-2020 02:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BlacktreeClick Here to visit Blacktree's HomePageSend a Private Message to BlacktreeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Do you just need a tach signal? You should be able to get that from the ignition module.
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