I'm having a weird problem with the circuit protected by fuse # 11. That's the horn relay, dome light, stereo memory and cigar lighter. My set up has been the same for 15 years, no changes, nothing removed and reinstalled. The stereo is a newer Pontiac am/fm/cd player I bought off someone on the forum and had been working great.
A few weeks ago while driving the car that whole circuit started to cut off then on. The only thing I was using on that circuit was a dash cam, nothing else. Finally the circuit ceased working at all. I've driver the too and from shows for years with the dash cam and a gps plugged into a splitter and the cd player on and never had a glitch. I thought the fuse was bad and replaced it twice. Both times I started it up the circuit cut out. But now for the puzzler, the two fuses were good, and the circuit came back on line then cut out when I started the car with the same fuse in the box.
What the heck?
[This message has been edited by johnt671 (edited 06-21-2020).]
Socket could be bad but.... Possible socket has some crap and shorted out. May not be a "Hard" short that blows a fuse. Many Dashcam, USB, and other power adapter are made very cheap and often fails and shorts out even when they has a fuse built into them.
Many "power plugs" may look OK on the outside but inside has crack plastic parts etc. and short out where you can't see.
If socket is bad...
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Originally posted by RWDPLZ: Replace the cigar lighter socket.
But note that replacement socket don't have the "Crow bar" shown in the cave. Is likely a big part of why the circuit "blinks" when adapter or socket has problems.
Find a Casco replacement. Many part stores and others sell no-name cheap one that's often worse then Casco likely make in China now too.
------------------ Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should. (Jurassic Park)
I'm going out soon to check the lighter socket out. Keep in mind that the fuse (#11) isn't blowing out, and if I put the same fuse back in it seems to reset the circuit. The whole circuit cuts out when I start the car even with nothing plugged in the lighter socket. The only thing on at that point is the memory on the stereo. Thanks for giving me some direction on this.
When I went out, the dome lights came on when I got in the car. When I parked it two days ago the whole circuit was dead. I started the car and everything still worked. So I shut it off and pulled the cigar lighter out. It's an old one and crusty inside. With the lighter out but connected I again started it up and all was good. With the car running I started to tighten the lighter down and I lost the circuit. So I rechecked the wires and found one needed to be bent a bit. Put everything back and it seems good now.
I'm not ready to say it's fixed until I drive it some. but I will be looking for a new socket.
Thinking out loud.. If the lighter socket is bad, the only mode is shorted out. If shorted out, it would blow the fuse. An open lighter socket only affects the lighter socket. Other than blow the fuse, one branch of the circuit cannot make the other branches not work. And on grounds, again, if there are many return paths, one open ground cannot make all branches stop working. Unless there is only one ground return. The issue seems to come and go easily, IE it is not intermittent over weeks or such long times. Can you get a meter and see if you can "catch" 12V power before and after the fuse? Chop this problem into parts?
Leave socket unplugged for a few days and see if problem goes away.
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Originally posted by Chris Eddy: Thinking out loud.. If the lighter socket is bad, the only mode is shorted out. If shorted out, it would blow the fuse. An open lighter socket only affects the lighter socket. Other than blow the fuse, one branch of the circuit cannot make the other branches not work. And on grounds, again, if there are many return paths, one open ground cannot make all branches stop working. Unless there is only one ground return. The issue seems to come and go easily, IE it is not intermittent over weeks or such long times. Can you get a meter and see if you can "catch" 12V power before and after the fuse? Chop this problem into parts?
Lighter & the Socket often "goes bad" and Won't blow a Fuse.
Sockets "go bad" for several reasons... highlights: Ashes etc get trapped and draws enough water out of the air causing problems. Arms that hold the lighter pushed in cracks or breaks. The arms are bi-metal and "wear out." Ceramic part cracks/breaks causing problems. Can be any combination of all.
Typical results: hard short and blow fuse. soft/restive short will pull power but not enough to blow fuses. just won't work. Plus Soft shorts and lighter stuck in can heat up and "trip" the "Crow bar" w/o blowing the fuse. This "Crow bar" feature, I've only seen it in Fiero. Most other cars have a lot of room so when a lighter malfunctions the car won't fry.
For problems w/ arms holding lighter... Many try to bend "weak" arms to hold again... Do Not do this. Often the arms will fail and can keep holding light on then try to fry things including the Fiero console.
Most things in the cabin share only 2 main grounds... G201 (Behind Radio) and G202 (Below ECM) but many things has one to several splices to get to those. I would clean both and others and metal go onto and coat w/ brake or silicon grease just as PM even if that look ok to you. See my Cave, Wire Service
Dome light alone won't care w/ bat fuse circuit but GT and some others have foot lights... If you have that option, See my Cave, Sneak Path
[This message has been edited by theogre (edited 06-23-2020).]
I replaced the lighter socket but it didn't help. Boy, the one that was in there sure was crusty. I did get another clue, No headlights or tail lights. At this point I realized I'd had this problem before. While everything working I went back to the battery and wiggled the + cable and everything went off. Another wiggle and all came back on.
I saw the cable was a little loose so with high hopes I tightened the cable down and took it for a ride. Everything was looking good for 15 minutes and then died. A few minutes later it came back on and stayed on until I got home. another wiggle and it shut down.. I have it down to one of the two secondary wires off the + side of the battery.
I should point out that the wires were a mess when I bought the car and a few years ago I did a rewiring job to make the wire a lot neater and cleanner. So tomorrow I plan on taking the wire ties and looms off and see what I can find. Thanks again for the advice.
Thinking out loud.. If the lighter socket is bad, the only mode is shorted out. If shorted out, it would blow the fuse. An open lighter socket only affects the lighter socket. Other than blow the fuse, one branch of the circuit cannot make the other branches not work. And on grounds, again, if there are many return paths, one open ground cannot make all branches stop working. Unless there is only one ground return. The issue seems to come and go easily, IE it is not intermittent over weeks or such long times. Can you get a meter and see if you can "catch" 12V power before and after the fuse? Chop this problem into parts?
I do have a meter so if what I want to do tomorrow fails I give this a go.
I replaced the lighter socket but it didn't help. Boy, the one that was in there sure was crusty. I did get another clue, No headlights or tail lights. At this point I realized I'd had this problem before. While everything working I went back to the battery and wiggled the + cable and everything went off. Another wiggle and all came back on.
I saw the cable was a little loose so with high hopes I tightened the cable down and took it for a ride. Everything was looking good for 15 minutes and then died. A few minutes later it came back on and stayed on until I got home. another wiggle and it shut down.. I have it down to one of the two secondary wires off the + side of the battery.
I should point out that the wires were a mess when I bought the car and a few years ago I did a rewiring job to make the wire a lot neater and cleanner. So tomorrow I plan on taking the wire ties and looms off and see what I can find. Thanks again for the advice.
big wires to starter + cable bolt originally but many move them should be Fusible links A & B and a lot of things die when loose etc.
If links moved or worse cut out then needs proper fixing including new link if removed. Have a short on these and other wires w/o their links can cause a fire. Do Not bundle fusible links w/ anything.
Thanks Ogre. I know on the 84 the links are near the starter. Like I said the wiring was a mess when I got the car and when I rewired the car I just spliced some longer wire in on the top to make it look better then it was. I've replaced the starter a bunch of time until I finally went with a 3.8 starter. I'm not ever sure if there are any fusible links on the car.
I found the problem. It was a frayed butt connector on the red wire coming off the battery. I took the wire looms I put on and as soon as I moved the wire and the sparks flew. I also found another splice on the wire below mine. I disconnected the battery and replaced my bad splice, put the cable back on and ran the car and all was good. I disconnected the battery and left it disconnected overnight.
I went to the auto parts this morning and picked up a good pair of crimpers, some weather proof butt connectors, and wire to finish the job. I replaced both connectors and put a new piece of wire in and put shrink tube and thought it was done.
When I started the car it barely ran. I hit the gas twice and it ran smooth at around 900 RPMs so I took it for a drive to reset the computer, and it ran nice, but no check engine light like I got before as the idle adjusted. Got home and shut it off for awhile and when I started it up got the same thing. I did look around where I was working but didn't see anything disconnected.
No twitching, and battery stays charged even after sitting three days. Other than starting funny the idle settled down and the thing did fine on three fifteen mile drive. I went to a car cruise a few nights ago about a mile from the house and on the way home I lost the radio and horn but everything else on the fuse circuit still worked. Turned on the lights and the left side headlight dosn''t pop up.
I've been fighting to keep this car going for 25 years, and I'm tired of it. The pleasure for driving it no longer comes close to the pain of working on it. I have an engine compartment wiring harness, so it's going to the shop to swap this harness in and fixed or not, it's going away.
Interesting, I have a very similar problem, fuse nr 11 is ok, but no power. Dome light is always on and interior light is dead :-( I belie the problem is that its no power to the wheel switch on any of the four pins. But I cant find any wiring diagram where I could find where the power to the switch comes from and with of the four cables should have power "in" ( I assume its the gray cable?)
Chris Eddy is right. This is caused by an open circuit (bad connection or broken wire) somewhere. A short is just that... a short. If a circuit is shorted badly enough to stop several devices on that circuit, it damn well better blow the fuse. If it doesn't, there's going to be a smoke show.
This is going to sound strange, but flip the fuse box down. You might even remove the screws that hold the hinge to the metal bracket on the underside of the dash, for better access. Check the wiring where it connects to the back of the fuse box. Some fuse box connectors just plug in, and may have come partially unplugged. (It could be your #11 fuse, or it could be a different connection.) Keep in mind that some Fieros also have a terminal box on the A-pillar, way up under the dash. In later cars, it's usually only installed if the car has power windows or similar optional accessories, but I'm not sure about 84s.
