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2016 Buick Regal Turbo Ecotec motor for a swap, what are the challenges? by qwikgta
Started on: 05-15-2020 10:45 AM
Replies: 29 (426 views)
Last post by: arbakken on 05-27-2020 08:36 PM
qwikgta
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Report this Post05-15-2020 10:45 AM Click Here to See the Profile for qwikgtaClick Here to Email qwikgtaSend a Private Message to qwikgtaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have a chance to grab a 2016 Turbo Ecotec from a Buick Regal. Its a auto, but I have an Ecotec F40 trans for it.

If I pull the motor, what else do I need to grab being that its a newer motor, in other words, do I need the BCM, gauges, gas pedal, fuel pump.. ect.

I'm familiar with what to grab for a 3800 and 3.4 DOHC motor, but with this being a 2016, Gen III motor i've never looked into what needs to be pulled.

thanks in advance

Rob
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Report this Post05-15-2020 12:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for arbakkenSend a Private Message to arbakkenEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I really wanted to do that swap, but my car isn't nice enough.

There is an easy/expensive way to do it: gm sells a control pack with the computer, pedal, wiring.

I would grab the fuel pump, I believe it is computer PWM controlled to provide the correct fuel before the engine itself compresses it to the high pressure for direct injection.

You'll definitely need the gas pedal. You should be able to program it to run without the BCM, but you may lose stuff like cruise control and the gauges. I'm doing a 2.2 na ecotec swap right now and I'm planning on keeping the bcm and gauges.

For my own curiosity can you take some pictures of the engine, and measure how far the exhaust/turbo sticks out from the head? This is going to be an awesome swap!

[This message has been edited by arbakken (edited 05-15-2020).]

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Report this Post05-15-2020 12:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for wftbClick Here to Email wftbSend a Private Message to wftbEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Get everything you can. Unless you are going to do standalone engine management. Entire wiring harness with the bcm ecm all of it. Get the steering column with the key in the ignition (you might use the switch, not the column), gauges fuel pump everything electrical. Modern GM harnesses use all different connectors so you can't put it together wrong. The harness will come with a large fuse block and a small fuse block and cables to go to the battery . If you get it all, it is plug and play and you can have it working fairly quickly. Get the drive by wire pedal assembly and grab the charcoal canister and its harness too.

The only thing my Fiero uses that is Fiero are the lights, heater fans and controls,wipers etc and the ignition switch turns on the starter for the ecotec. I pared down my harness too much and I do regret that now. I use HP tuners and for my setup anyway it will run both a manual and automatic transmission. I doubt the newer cars would be set up like that, my control system is from a 2004.

------------------
86 GT built 2.2 ecotec turbo
rear SLA suspension
QA1 coilovers on tube arms

[This message has been edited by wftb (edited 05-15-2020).]

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Report this Post05-15-2020 06:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for qwikgtaClick Here to Email qwikgtaSend a Private Message to qwikgtaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Well I pulled the motor. Got the engine, 6 speed Auto trans, ECM, engine harness, engine sensors (MAF, MAP ect), coolant bottle and a few odds/ends. Only has 35K on it, and was driving when it was hit in the rear with a push to the front. Kind of a Buick sandwich. No damage to the motor, only thing I've seen is that the cold side metal tube was pushed back into the A/C and has a small dent in it.

I've pulled a lot of engines and this one was different, the engine harness was a stand alone. It connected to the main car harness via a multi-pin pack. In the others, I had to pull the main harness thru the firewall and it was connected to the fuze box and had/has a lot of misc connections for fan, brakes, horn ect..

I am going to have to go back tomorrow and pick the other stuff I didn't get today, i was just too tired and thirsty to care. I'll grab the gas pedal and harness, look for the BCM and harness and all the other crap i missed.

For now, I'm just happy to have the motor.



More to follow.
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Report this Post05-15-2020 08:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for wftbClick Here to Email wftbSend a Private Message to wftbEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The 6 speed auto sounds kind of nice to me. I had a 6 speed dual clutch auto in the last Focus I had and it was awesome once they did all the recalls. Turbo motors work better with autos.

------------------
86 GT built 2.2 ecotec turbo
rear SLA suspension
QA1 coilovers on tube arms

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Report this Post05-15-2020 09:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for qwikgtaClick Here to Email qwikgtaSend a Private Message to qwikgtaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by wftb:

The 6 speed auto sounds kind of nice to me. I had a 6 speed dual clutch auto in the last Focus I had and it was awesome once they did all the recalls. Turbo motors work better with autos.



yea, I love auto's for daily drivers too. My DD is a 3800 NA w/ auto and I love driving it.

My plan was to get a motor for the 87 GT i picked up the other day, its a 5 speed and if I flip it, i'd want to keep it a 5 speed. I had planned to just pick up a 2.8L for it and call it a day, but folks I've talked to want upward of $600+ for a good working, low mileage motor, and those are 6 plus hours away. Not really sure what i'm going to do with this motor, i may just put it in the garage for a future project.

Maybe i'll just finish cleaning up and working over the LSJ motor for the 87 GT.

[This message has been edited by qwikgta (edited 05-15-2020).]

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Report this Post05-16-2020 04:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for qwikgtaClick Here to Email qwikgtaSend a Private Message to qwikgtaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
went back today and grabbed all the wiring I could, got the BCM and all the rest of the engine wires. took 3-4 hours to pull it all thru the firewall and out from under the dash. not sure I got everything, I did have to cut some. The large bundle of wires went under the driver seat and keep on going. I had to cut the harness right there so I could remove all the dash and engine wiring. Got the drivers pedal and all its wiring. Grabbed something from the trunk, not sure what it is but it looked important. I did cut the wires going to all the stereo and cut the stuff going into the doors. It was quite an ordeal. I had to remove the whole dash just to get it all. Had to remove the brake peddle and all its hardware to get the plug out of the firewall. That task alone took at least 2 hours. I had no idea the brake master cyl held the whole thing together. 12" inch bolts going from the master - thru the booster - into the firewall. I'll sort it out later. Still need to go back and grab the fuel pump, steel lines and the charcoal canister.

Rob

[This message has been edited by qwikgta (edited 05-16-2020).]

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Report this Post05-17-2020 09:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for qwikgtaClick Here to Email qwikgtaSend a Private Message to qwikgtaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
well strike one.

I just found out the 2.0 Ecotec Getrag F40 that I have from a 2007 Saab will not fit the 2.0 Ecotec LTG motor. I guess b/c the LTG was designed to be a RWD motor, the bellhousing is RWD. They do make a Getrag F40 for the LTG, but it has a different bolt pattern, one that match's the RWD trans. They can be purchased for cheap ($600) but i'm not that excited about having to spend that for what I thought I already had. CRAP!!!
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Report this Post05-18-2020 08:27 AM Click Here to See the Profile for wftbClick Here to Email wftbSend a Private Message to wftbEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Here is some info I found on the LTG. It was designed to be used in longitudinal or transverse applications. There are diagrams of everything except the bolt patterns here. https://gmpowertrain.com/as...s-specifications.pdf
I always thought all ecotecs had the same bolt patterns. I will do some more digging , there has to be a diagram somewhere.

Does that Regal you are getting the parts off have the Hyperstrut front suspension? It will have an upper ball joint on the spindle if it does.

------------------
86 GT built 2.2 ecotec turbo
rear SLA suspension
QA1 coilovers on tube arms

[This message has been edited by wftb (edited 05-19-2020).]

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Report this Post05-18-2020 08:50 AM Click Here to See the Profile for wftbClick Here to Email wftbSend a Private Message to wftbEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
https://gmauthority.com/blo...l-turbo-i4-ltg-2.jpg

Front wheel transverse drive. The only difference seems to be the exhaust. On the old eco's like mine the exhaust comes out the left side of the engine. On the LTG it comes out of the right side or towards the front of a Fiero. To me that would be an improvement as exhaust could be routed like a stock Fiero. Still have not found a bell housing diagram yet.

------------------
86 GT built 2.2 ecotec turbo
rear SLA suspension
QA1 coilovers on tube arms

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Report this Post05-18-2020 10:10 AM Click Here to See the Profile for qwikgtaClick Here to Email qwikgtaSend a Private Message to qwikgtaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
starter is in the wrong location, and the bolt pattern is different. Starter is over the axle in the LTG and its on the opposite side on the "other" ecotec.


14-17 LTG



Early Ecotec
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Report this Post05-18-2020 10:31 AM Click Here to See the Profile for wftbClick Here to Email wftbSend a Private Message to wftbEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
What is the name of the automatic that is bolted to your LTG ? This is a rear drive tranny that is listed as the manual for the LTG, no fwd trans is listed on the Chevy performance website.
https://www.chevrolet.com/i...ansmissions/ltg.html

The LTG is a clean sheet design, nothing from the old 4 cyl ecotecs fits it. I notice the alternator is on the opposite side, the waterpump is belt driven instead of the internal chain drive like mine and because of that you have to leave the AC compressor on. With earlier eco's you can just take the compressor off and run a short belt from the cavalier that had no AC. I did not realize they had changed so much.

------------------
86 GT built 2.2 ecotec turbo
rear SLA suspension
QA1 coilovers on tube arms

[This message has been edited by wftb (edited 05-18-2020).]

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Report this Post05-18-2020 04:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for qwikgtaClick Here to Email qwikgtaSend a Private Message to qwikgtaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by wftb:

What is the name of the automatic that is bolted to your LTG ?


Its 6T70, its a FWD trans but b/c the motor was for Cadillac and the Camaro it started out as a AWD/RWD motor first. At least that's what I've been reading.

Rob

[This message has been edited by qwikgta (edited 05-18-2020).]

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Report this Post05-18-2020 06:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for wftbClick Here to Email wftbSend a Private Message to wftbEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thanks for the info that all makes sense. For a lot of car companies the 2 litre 4 cylinder turbo has become a universal engine. Variations of it is all Volvo uses in all their cars and SUV's.

------------------
86 GT built 2.2 ecotec turbo
rear SLA suspension
QA1 coilovers on tube arms

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Will
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Report this Post05-19-2020 10:01 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by wftb:

Here is some info I found on the LTG. It was designed to be used in longitudinal or transverse applications. There are diagrams of everything except the bolt patterns here. https://via-autoworks.my-on...002281_20063234.aspx

I always thought all ecotecs had the same bolt patterns. I will do some more digging , there has to be a diagram somewhere.

Does that Regal you are getting the parts off have the Hyperstrut front suspension? It will have an upper ball joint on the spindle if it does.



Wrong Link?
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Report this Post05-19-2020 10:24 AM Click Here to See the Profile for arbakkenSend a Private Message to arbakkenEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'm nearly certain the bolt pattern is the same on FWD and RWD ecotecs. I've never seen anything to the contrary. They may have put the starter in a different place due to packaging, but that's on the transmission side anyways.
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Report this Post05-19-2020 11:58 AM Click Here to See the Profile for qwikgtaClick Here to Email qwikgtaSend a Private Message to qwikgtaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Once the wx clears here in Va Bch, i'll pull out the 07 F40 and put the two together once and for all.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the starter bolts to the motor right? if so, then the early F40 will not work, b/c there is no "hole" in the 07 F40 case for the starter to "poke out". So even if the 07 trans "could" bolt to the 2016 block, the starter (attached to the block) will interfere with the trans.

Also, I don't think I can just cut the 07 case to fit the 16 starter location. Before I did all that, I'd prob start to see how difficult using the 6spd auto trans will be.

just for ref, here is a pic of the 6T70 auto trans.



and here is a pic of the engine side of the LTG motor.



Rob

[This message has been edited by qwikgta (edited 05-19-2020).]

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Report this Post05-19-2020 01:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for wftbClick Here to Email wftbSend a Private Message to wftbEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:


Wrong Link?


Yes sorry about that. Fixed it.

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Report this Post05-19-2020 04:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for arbakkenSend a Private Message to arbakkenEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
What car did your F40 come out of?

This is from a ZZP F40 swap kit for earlier 2.0 ecotecs

 
quote
Requires Saab 9-3 ('07+ preferred for best performance gearing) or 2011-13 Regal 6 speed F40 transmission and PCM reprogramming to adjust for the new speed sensor. It does fit pre-2007 Saab F40 but the gearing is not optimal. The Regal transmission has poor gearing for drag or road course cars (wide gears, tall final drive), but can be useful for half mile racing. Please don't ask if it will work with XX transmission. It's designed for a Saab or 11-13 Regal trans as stated above and nothing else.


Both the 2011-2013 and 2014-2016 F40 6 speed option code is MR6, but they don't seem to interchange. The regal didn't get the LTG until 2014, so I guess it's possible they changed the transmission... but... man that seems dumb

[This message has been edited by arbakken (edited 05-20-2020).]

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Report this Post05-19-2020 07:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by wftb:

What is the name of the automatic that is bolted to your LTG ? This is a rear drive tranny that is listed as the manual for the LTG, no fwd trans is listed on the Chevy performance website.



They do, however, list a FWD 6 speed manual trans Engine controller and install guide.
LINK
"Front Wheel Drive with 6 Speed Manual Trans Kit Part Number 19331686"

The engine controller looks to be "stand alone". Probably spendy as hell, but it kind of gives some hope that maybe the tune can be loaded into an existing PCM, that is already in hand.
(Of course, that doesn't help with the trans. )

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 05-19-2020).]

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Report this Post05-21-2020 05:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for qwikgtaClick Here to Email qwikgtaSend a Private Message to qwikgtaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by arbakken:

Both the 2011-2013 and 2014-2016 F40 6 speed option code is MR6, but they don't seem to interchange. The regal didn't get the LTG until 2014, so I guess it's possible they changed the transmission... but... man that seems dumb



yep, for one car, the Regal GS, and three years of production they changed the bellhousing for the F40.
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Report this Post05-21-2020 06:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for qwikgtaClick Here to Email qwikgtaSend a Private Message to qwikgtaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Raydar:

They do, however, list a FWD 6 speed manual trans Engine controller and install guide.
LINK
"Front Wheel Drive with 6 Speed Manual Trans Kit Part Number 19331686"

The engine controller looks to be "stand alone". Probably spendy as hell, but it kind of gives some hope that maybe the tune can be loaded into an existing PCM, that is already in hand.
(Of course, that doesn't help with the trans. )



So if you google that part number you'll see that its the engine harness, ECM, gas pedal, O2 sensor, MAF and a few other odds/ends. I have all that, when I pulled the motor, I knew enough to grab everything. I even went back a few days later and grabbed the in-tank pump, the charcoal canister, steal gas lines. I have the BCM, all the harness under the dash and all the harness attached to both fuze panels. I have a lot of wiring.

Still unsure if i'm going to use this. I may put it up for sale.

Rob
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Report this Post05-24-2020 10:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by qwikgta:


yep, for one car, the Regal GS, and three years of production they changed the bellhousing for the F40.


They did it for two years of G6 production.
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Report this Post05-24-2020 10:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for pmbrunelleClick Here to Email pmbrunelleSend a Private Message to pmbrunelleEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
From what I know, die-cast molds are scrap and have to be redone after about 100k pieces.

So if you're going to make about 100k of something, the fact of it being different won't result in a cost increase (other than the administrative burden of managing another part number).
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Report this Post05-26-2020 02:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Blue RocketClick Here to Email Blue RocketSend a Private Message to Blue RocketEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The LCV 2.5 liter n/a version also shares this bell house. So my swap is also on hold there as well. A few places making adapters to bolt these to other rwd transmissions, so maybe a adapter can be made.
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Report this Post05-26-2020 03:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaClick Here to Email Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The complete swap kit from GM for this engine runs $2700. Add in the cost of the engine clutch and all else and you are over $3,000 , maybe closer to $4,000 and that is for a DIY job. Doesn't seem to be cost effective.

------------------
" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
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" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

[This message has been edited by Dennis LaGrua (edited 05-26-2020).]

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Report this Post05-27-2020 03:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for qwikgtaClick Here to Email qwikgtaSend a Private Message to qwikgtaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua:

The complete swap kit from GM for this engine runs $2700. Add in the cost of the engine clutch and all else and you are over $3,000 , maybe closer to $4,000 and that is for a DIY job. Doesn't seem to be cost effective.


What are you talking about? I have a complete 35,000 mile motor w/ accessories, including turbo and cold side plumbing, 6 speed 6T70 auto trans, ECM, BCM, engine and body harness, both fuel pumps, charcoal canister, axles, spindles, hubs, calipers, rotors, steel fuel and return lines and with all that I'm still under $350 bucks.

[This message has been edited by qwikgta (edited 05-27-2020).]

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Report this Post05-27-2020 04:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for qwikgtaClick Here to Email qwikgtaSend a Private Message to qwikgtaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Blue Rocket:

The LCV 2.5 liter n/a version also shares this bell house. So my swap is also on hold there as well. A few places making adapters to bolt these to other rwd transmissions, so maybe a adapter can be made.


Yes, the block bolt pattern is for RWD/AWD drive cars, like the Camaro/Cadillac. They do make an adapter for the 4T60 RWD trans. Not worried about an adapter, if I cant modify my 2007 F40 to fit, i'll stay with the 6T70 AT.
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Report this Post05-27-2020 08:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for arbakkenSend a Private Message to arbakkenEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by qwikgta:


What are you talking about? I have a complete 35,000 mile motor w/ accessories, including turbo and cold side plumbing, 6 speed 6T70 auto trans, ECM, BCM, engine and body harness, both fuel pumps, charcoal canister, axles, spindles, hubs, calipers, rotors, steel fuel and return lines and with all that I'm still under $350 bucks.



To be fair, that's a pretty rocking deal!
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