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Lamborghini engine in Fiero by branger
Started on: 04-20-2020 11:45 PM
Replies: 54 (1179 views)
Last post by: BillS on 11-22-2020 06:17 PM
branger
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Report this Post04-20-2020 11:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for brangerClick Here to Email brangerSend a Private Message to brangerEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I don’t think this have ever been done, but I’ve seen my fair share of Fiero Lamborghini kit cars and most that have an engine swap, have the usual... 3800;
My question... is there an actual Lamborghini engine that would fit in theFiero and to anyone’s knowledge, has it ever been done? I would love to see a sleeper Fiero, no kit, with a Lamborghini engine...
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Report this Post04-21-2020 09:44 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The Lamborghini Jurraco V8 should fit... that's from '70's. The unit by itself would set you back $50k or so.

Here's a bare block for $5k: https://www.ebay.com/itm/133309929196
and a crankshaft for $3k: https://www.ebay.com/itm/133309931405

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Report this Post04-21-2020 03:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for SpadesluckSend a Private Message to SpadesluckEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thats a lot of money for a motor that barely made 247hp. I suppose for the purists it could be worth it. Granted for its time that was pretty good I suppose.
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Report this Post04-21-2020 04:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sourmashClick Here to Email sourmashSend a Private Message to sourmashEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
But musclecars 10 years earlier were making much more hp and gobs of torque. The Trans Am was still an HO round port engine until what, 1974? And after that was still using the 455.
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Report this Post04-21-2020 05:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for SpadesluckSend a Private Message to SpadesluckEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by sourmash:

But musclecars 10 years earlier were making much more hp and gobs of torque. The Trans Am was still an HO round port engine until what, 1974? And after that was still using the 455.


Oh I know, was just trying to give the benefit of the doubt.
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branger
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Report this Post04-21-2020 06:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for brangerClick Here to Email brangerSend a Private Message to brangerEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thanks for the feedback! I guess I just wanted to see the look on someones face when they scoff at the Fiero and have them look under the hood and see an exotic engine... one can dream, haha.
Be safe out there, everyone, and Keep driving!
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OntarioKev
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Report this Post04-21-2020 06:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for OntarioKevSend a Private Message to OntarioKevEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Anything could be done with enough fab and money, but exotic engines just don't make sense. They are rare and therefore expensive. A 3800 converted to a turbo can put down 500+whp without an issue so there is a reason everyone uses the 3800, best bang for the buck.
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Report this Post04-21-2020 08:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sourmashClick Here to Email sourmashSend a Private Message to sourmashEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If someone didn't do something crazy like that back in the day they missed a good opportunity I guess.
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Patrick
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Report this Post04-21-2020 08:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by branger:

I guess I just wanted to see the look on someones face when they scoff at the Fiero and have them look under the hood and see an exotic engine... one can dream, haha.


I'm not exactly sure what constitutes an "exotic" engine, but if the following engine possibly intrigues you, keep tabs on engine man.

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rogergarrison
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Report this Post04-22-2020 06:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonClick Here to Email rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Most exotic engine I remember on here was someone was doing a BMW v8. Id say be best to stay in the family...GM V6s and V8s. You get all kinds of compatibility issues with mix- matched drive trains.
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Will
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Report this Post04-22-2020 07:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by branger:

I don’t think this have ever been done, but I’ve seen my fair share of Fiero Lamborghini kit cars and most that have an engine swap, have the usual... 3800;
My question... is there an actual Lamborghini engine that would fit in theFiero and to anyone’s knowledge, has it ever been done? I would love to see a sleeper Fiero, no kit, with a Lamborghini engine...


Actually... in thinking about it a little more, the VW 2.5 inline 5 uses the same cylinder head (just one though!) as the Lamborghini V10.
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Report this Post04-22-2020 08:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for engine manClick Here to Email engine manSend a Private Message to engine manEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Ah yes Patrick the W12 just 1 inch longer than the Audi 4.2 v8 i have installed i just need to get some things sold so i can fund that project the installation won't be as hard as the wiring and powertrain management

[This message has been edited by engine man (edited 04-22-2020).]

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Will
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Report this Post04-23-2020 11:08 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:

I'm not exactly sure what constitutes an "exotic" engine, but if the following engine possibly intrigues you, keep tabs on engine man.



LOL... the W12 is cool and fun; the engine shown in the video from 7:25 to 9:43 is a 4.0T
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BillS
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Report this Post04-23-2020 08:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BillSClick Here to Email BillSSend a Private Message to BillSEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Spadesluck:

Thats a lot of money for a motor that barely made 247hp. I suppose for the purists it could be worth it. Granted for its time that was pretty good I suppose.


The Urraco only made a bit over 200 bhp for most of the model life - only the last couple of hundred got the 300 engine. The Lamborghini V8s were neat little units but none of the period engines put out power that looks good by our standards today.

My V12 Lamborghini was a high output version and managed 350 bhp @ 7900 but that was also pre 1970s ratings and would be about 280 net today.
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engine man
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Report this Post04-23-2020 10:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for engine manClick Here to Email engine manSend a Private Message to engine manEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Will i would use the VW Phaeton W12 444 Hp engine even though it is the same as the Audi and Bentley you can buy them for much less
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BillS
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Report this Post04-24-2020 12:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BillSClick Here to Email BillSSend a Private Message to BillSEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Guess it depends on whether you are shooting for visual impact or actual performance.

A well done LNF Ecotec will pump out 500 bhp easily and pretty light.

Here is one well past that - 570 hp at the wheels

https://www.youtube.com/wat...LPk&feature=emb_logo
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Report this Post04-24-2020 02:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sourmashClick Here to Email sourmashSend a Private Message to sourmashEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
You probably meant visual impact, 400 lbs of torque and uniqueness which every W12 has. You can coax power from the Cobalt engine.
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Will
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Report this Post04-27-2020 09:45 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by engine man:

Will i would use the VW Phaeton W12 444 Hp engine even though it is the same as the Audi and Bentley you can buy them for much less


I thought the Audi unit was rated higher to begin with... And has a dry sump while the VW unit does not.

 
quote
Originally posted by BillS:

Guess it depends on whether you are shooting for visual impact or actual performance.

A well done LNF Ecotec will pump out 500 bhp easily and pretty light.

Here is one well past that - 570 hp at the wheels

https://www.youtube.com/wat...LPk&feature=emb_logo



A while back I saw a video of a Lotus Elise with the original Toyota 2ZZ turbo'd to ~450 RWHP. Every time the turbo spooled mid-corner, the car would spin. That can be mitigated with chassis setup and modern engine management, but don't forget that a high strung engine is... well... high strung.

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engine man
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Report this Post04-27-2020 06:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for engine manClick Here to Email engine manSend a Private Message to engine manEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
well i like the VW w12 it is cheaper and will bolt to 01x transaxle or 012 or even the 5HP19 automatic . i can say though it is a bit tough to get all things to work together as far as the ECU and a TCU if automatic is used so that what you face doing custom swaps that have never been done with any engine as that alone can be very frustrating but rewarding in the end .
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Report this Post11-07-2020 10:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sourmashClick Here to Email sourmashSend a Private Message to sourmashEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I didn't realize it but Audi put a V10 in the S6 and S8. It's derived from the V10 in the Gallardo and Huracan. The stroke is longer and the red line is lower. But it's over 400 horse and costs 3000 or so. the sound is beautiful.

I don't think anyone mentioned the V12 BMW someone here was working on in Europe.
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Report this Post11-08-2020 11:57 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierosoundClick Here to visit fierosound's HomePageClick Here to Email fierosoundSend a Private Message to fierosoundEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by sourmash:

I don't think anyone mentioned the V12 BMW someone here was working on in Europe.


It's here: http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/107913.html

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Report this Post11-08-2020 01:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sourmashClick Here to Email sourmashSend a Private Message to sourmashEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Forgot about that one. There's another one out there. Pretty sure, anyway. It's a custom body effort he was foam forming. Haven't heard of it in a couple.

Here it is.
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/F...1/HTML/092051-4.html

[This message has been edited by sourmash (edited 11-08-2020).]

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Report this Post11-08-2020 10:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Neils88Click Here to Email Neils88Send a Private Message to Neils88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I've currently got the 4.9 in my Aventador build. However, since I've stretched it 11", I will definitely be upgrading to a longitudinal engine. Top of my list is BMW V12. I still need to research more about available mods though
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Report this Post11-09-2020 01:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DrXtremeClick Here to Email DrXtremeSend a Private Message to DrXtremeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The Lambo and Ferrari engines are high $$ to maintain. I have suppliers in Miami that own them and tell me a tune up is $25k, so even if I was given one I couldn't afford nor would pay that much for maintenance.

Somewhere on the web was an article about 2 women who bought a 308 Ferrari to fix and flip. The engine needed a lot of simple parts that shouldn't be expensive, but I believe that repair was $10k plus.

Thats why I like my Mera with N*; more HP than the 308 was and much easier and cheaper to fix.
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Report this Post11-09-2020 04:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sourmashClick Here to Email sourmashSend a Private Message to sourmashEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The Northstar is noted as pricey to rebuild compared to OHV engines and is more complex. The Audi V10 is just like the V6 and V8 versions which are similar to the N* in design. Audi finally went with timing chains in mid 2000s, but there are still wear parts associated. The Gallardo version of the same base V10 requires much shorter major service intervals than the S6, but is similar to the RS6 Euro-V10.

If you want a faithful copy of a Lambo V12 car, a V12 makes more sense than a V10, but I'd be perfectly fine with a V10 and 435 hp N/A.
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Report this Post11-09-2020 07:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cvxjetClick Here to Email cvxjetSend a Private Message to cvxjetEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The Lamborghini Miura (My Fav' Lambo) had a transverse V12.....




I suspect that most of these exotic engines would be very heavy....an LS4 is an easier installation and can be pumped to over 400 hp......
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Report this Post11-09-2020 08:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jdvClick Here to Email jdvSend a Private Message to jdvEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Having seen a Miura in person I can honestly say a ls will not sound as good as the lambo v12.

[This message has been edited by jdv (edited 11-10-2020).]

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Report this Post11-09-2020 08:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I wish this one would have been finished:
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Will
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Report this Post11-10-2020 09:34 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by branger:

I don’t think this have ever been done, but I’ve seen my fair share of Fiero Lamborghini kit cars and most that have an engine swap, have the usual... 3800;
My question... is there an actual Lamborghini engine that would fit in theFiero and to anyone’s knowledge, has it ever been done? I would love to see a sleeper Fiero, no kit, with a Lamborghini engine...


The Chrysler TC by Maserati used a Chrysler-derived Turbo II (III?) 2.2 short block with a Maserati designed 16V head. Those engines are still reasonable to obtain, although the Maserati head needs a lot of work to be reliable. Those cars were even available with the Getrag 284 transmission.

So if you were building a Maserati kit car, you could put a real Maserati engine in it, with the Trident on the valve cover and everything.

There was also a Lotus 16V head for the same short block... but I don't know which model it was used in.
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Report this Post11-10-2020 09:37 AM Click Here to See the Profile for sourmashClick Here to Email sourmashSend a Private Message to sourmashEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Which trans was in that one, fieroguru?

 
quote
Originally posted by fieroguru:

I wish this one would have been finished.]


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Report this Post11-10-2020 06:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by sourmash:

Which trans was in that one, fieroguru?



4 speed muncie.
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Report this Post11-10-2020 08:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sourmashClick Here to Email sourmashSend a Private Message to sourmashEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Interesting. Wonder if it survives?
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Report this Post11-11-2020 07:15 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by sourmash:

Interesting. Wonder if it survives?


It doesn't. Russ moved and ended up sending most of his fiero projects to the scrap yard.
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Report this Post11-11-2020 01:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BillSClick Here to Email BillSSend a Private Message to BillSEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
While it makes zero sense to spend triple+ the worth of the whole car on a core engine, there are other engines like the BMW V12 and V10 that are less expensive. The learning curve to get them running in a Fiero may be steep and the mounting of one in a transverse set up may be impossible - there are even issues when putting a V8 in there.

Didn't someone extend the rear bodywork and stick in an in line engine? That's what the Countach did , but then you don't have a stock looking Fiero any more, if that matters.
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Report this Post11-11-2020 06:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sourmashClick Here to Email sourmashSend a Private Message to sourmashEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Since the cars can be had for free (or nearly so) your investment in the car can be meaningless to the project, except that it means your investment is really just in the swap.
I'm sorta surprised there are so many still left when you consider that you never see cars like the Z24 or the Conquest TSi anymore. Of course someone out there sees them. I never do. Not far away are 3 Fieros in one guys place, 6 in another, 3-4 in another and then there are the singles here and there.
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Report this Post11-12-2020 01:09 AM Click Here to See the Profile for cvxjetClick Here to Email cvxjetSend a Private Message to cvxjetEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Well....Up until recently....I believe the Fiero was the only production mid-engine car made in the USA......I think some other car has come along lately.....

Also, the Fiero really had some interesting manufacturing processes....And was well styled- especially for the 80s....Even the basic '84s still look (Basically) timeless.

It saddens me to see Fieros that are still (Basically) all there in the JY.....Like in the show "How I met your Mother" where they say the car is finished; Just change the engine...the trans...the front or rear suspension....Not all that hard and the car could go another (Almost) 200,000 miles........500 miles at a time (Watch the show to understand that reference)
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Report this Post11-12-2020 08:09 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaClick Here to Email Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by BillS:

While it makes zero sense to spend triple+ the worth of the whole car on a core engine, there are other engines like the BMW V12 and V10 that are less expensive. The learning curve to get them running in a Fiero may be steep and the mounting of one in a transverse set up may be impossible - there are even issues when putting a V8 in there.

Didn't someone extend the rear bodywork and stick in an in line engine? That's what the Countach did , but then you don't have a stock looking Fiero any more, if that matters.


The BMW V12 was the M70 engine that was built for about 10 years used on 1992–1996 E31 Models, a large luxury touring sedan. It is a huge engine. Several years back at the kit car show, I saw one installed in a Lamborghinni Galardo replica. The engine was so big that the builder had to rework/enlarge the Fiero engine compartment extensively. The standard engine gives 295 HP but there are ultra rare versions that provide 395HP. The basic M 70 engines can be found but they don't have the best record for reliability I believe that for the amount of work and cost (vs power) a different swap seems to make more sense. There are many 3800SC swaps that have hit the 11's and one brave forum member was able to take his 3800SC to a 9.87 sec 1/4 mile time at 142 MPH . I doubt if any V8, V10, or V12 in a Fiero could do better than that.

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Report this Post11-12-2020 08:41 AM Click Here to See the Profile for sourmashClick Here to Email sourmashSend a Private Message to sourmashEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Since I don't drag race, quarter mile times really don't determine my decisions on projects. If you've ever driven a V12 you'll know that the torque, smoothness and red line appeal to your senses unlike a tractor engine.
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Report this Post11-12-2020 09:50 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I don't know how the BMW V12 came to be known as the V12 to swap...
It's SOHC, 24V, with terrible head flow. It was available in a 300 HP/330 TQ 5.0 version and later a 330 HP/360 TQ 5.4 version. There was a 360/380 5.6 version in the 850CSi, but that was extremely rare.
BMW didn't build a DOHC 48V V12 until the early 2000's, but that engine had the first ValveTronic implementation and is difficult to swap.

The Mercedes V12 was DOHC, 48V, 6.0 and made 400 HP as far back as 1991ish.

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Report this Post11-12-2020 05:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BillSClick Here to Email BillSSend a Private Message to BillSEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I agree, Dennis. A V12 is a very poor choice for a Fiero swap. Frankly I don't think you'd do much better than a modern DI high output 4 cylinder. there are a number of them that come stock from round 300 bhp up and are able to be modified up toward 500 bhp reliably That's where I would look for a Fiero engine, but I'd worry a bit about the torque capacity of the Getrag...

But this thread was about looks, I think, not performance, and although a V12 looks great I doubt there is anyone here with the combination of excessive dollars together with insufficient judgement to want to actually try that swap. Although they did manage to shoehorn a Lambo V12 into a Fiat 500....

https://www.roadandtrack.co...canica-fiat-500-v12/
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