I'm glad to be here. I've been lurking for a while, thinking about a Fiero, and I finally bought one. It's a 1988 4 cylinder automatic. It's under 80K, the frame seems solid and the body damage is limited. There seems to be plenty of information in the historical posts here, so I will try to search before asking dumb questions.
I've located a high mileage 1998 Buick Riviera 3800 SC engine and transmission. I expect to rebuild the engine and transmission to essentially stock specs. I know the Grand Prix engines are recommended replacement, but, other than having to replace a few more bits and pieces, is this engine a good choice? I couldn't quickly find anyone using this particular engine. I also may have access to a radiator for an Archies V8 conversion. Would this be an advisable replacement to go with the 3800?
Although mine is a base model, it has a spoiler (and incredibly ugly purple/pink paint). The spoiler is actually three pieces, with the side downturned tips bolted to a straight center piece. Is this an aftermarket item? It's not a great looking piece.
Anyway, I look forward to using this resource for this project which will probably take a long time, considering my past history.
Welcome. Let me be the first to say though... I can't stand your music.
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Originally posted by KennyG:
Although mine is a base model, it has a spoiler (and incredibly ugly purple/pink paint). The spoiler is actually three pieces, with the side downturned tips bolted to a straight center piece. Is this an aftermarket item? It's not a great looking piece.
Welcome! I think you've picked a fine engine. The differences are minor. I think I used a Riviera L67 in my swap. Minor parts can be sourced from many places; I recommend Morad Auto Parts (https://moradpartscompany.com/). Do you have the ECU aka PCM? I know I switched to a 98 Grand Prix PCM as it was "unlocked." For cooling, you may be fine with your stock parts. I've kept my 88 2.5l cooling system and haven't seen problems. Just make sure to get out all the air bubbles.
Here are some photos of the spoiler. The more I look at it, the less I like it. Anyway, minor compared to the total project.
How about that for a color? I'm glad I will be repainting it anyway.
I haven't picked up the engine yet, but I understand it has engine side wiring and accessories but no chips. That may be for the best since it will force me to find the best chip for this application.
Sorry about the picture size. My first photo post and I didn't realize this forum doesn't automatically resize.
That's just it though... the new image posting feature here is supposed to automatically resize the photos. Something has screwed up, as I've seen this same issue in other threads today. It's not your fault!
I was going to say it looks like a badly faded stock color but then I noticed the over spray on the grills. Looks like it took a hit to the right rear based on how the right grill is lying relative to the bumper. Pull the panels rear and take a closer look so you can assess any upper frame rail rust/damage as well which is usually well hidden by the bodywork. Oh, and welcome to the madness...!
------------------ Anything I might say is probably worth what you paid for it, so treat it accordingly!
The right grille is off because the battery is shot and I have to put the charger on it to start it. As nearly as I can tell the car was originally blue. I won't be sure until I get it apart, but the body damage seems to be limited to minor scrapes. The frame looks good from underneath, but I know I have to get it apart to be sure.
Good luck with your build. Word to the wise, rebuilding the 3800SC has shown to be very difficult for what ever reason. My advice check everything multiple times and not to use cheap parts.
For what it is worth, if you can get a donor car that runs and you can drive it for a few hundred miles to see if the engine is solid, you can skip the rebuild. I am not a stranger to rebuilding engines but it is just so much easier, cheaper and quicker not to do a rebuild. The 3800sc is proven to be one of the most reliable engines GM ever built.
------------------ 86 GT built 2.2 ecotec turbo rear SLA suspension QA1 coilovers on tube arms
Now you have me thinking. I haven't picked up the 3800 yet but it has been removed from a wrecked car. Supposed to be in good condition but it's a pig in a poke. Supposed to have 175K on it, which is why I'm assuming I will have to rebuild it, but maybe the best bet would be to do the swap and see how it runs, then pull it if needed. In any case, I will pull the pan, valve covers, etc to take a look.
Not sure why a 3800 SC would be a more difficult build than any other modern engine? Any issues with seals or internal parts wear?
It is basically just a pushrod V6 to me pretty simple. Go on youtube and do a search of somebody rebuilding one and you can learn it all ahead of time. But I would mount it in the cradle first and run a fuel line to it and see how it runs first. Rebuilt or not you still have to mount it in the cradle. The youtube videos are great, just watched a guy tear down a PorscheM97 engine.
------------------ 86 GT built 2.2 ecotec turbo rear SLA suspension QA1 coilovers on tube arms
Now you have me thinking. I haven't picked up the 3800 yet but it has been removed from a wrecked car. Supposed to be in good condition but it's a pig in a poke. Supposed to have 175K on it, which is why I'm assuming I will have to rebuild it, but maybe the best bet would be to do the swap and see how it runs, then pull it if needed. In any case, I will pull the pan, valve covers, etc to take a look.
Not sure why a 3800 SC would be a more difficult build than any other modern engine? Any issues with seals or internal parts wear?
I have no experience rebuilding one honestly, but I am under the same line of thinking it can not be any more difficult than a modern motor. With that said others have had difficulties rebuilding them, there is a thread or two here that says as much. I asked a similar question about rebulding one when i was looking at getting a 3800SC (deal fell apart) and I got similar responses. Your miles may vary.
[This message has been edited by Spadesluck (edited 01-03-2020).]
I'm starting to get into this and finding some oddities. This is a base model 4 cylinder automatic, but the rear fascia, according to the shop manual I have, is a GT. It has two exhaust cutouts, small tail lights in the lower fascia and it fastened at the top with vertical fasteners into the space frame. (See the photo above) Now I'm wondering if it got hit in the back at some point and had the fascia replaced.
Is there any trick that allows removal of the plastic blind fasteners for the body parts or do they just have to be cut off and replaced?
I'm finding a lot of surface rust, as expected, but the only damaged part currently seems to be the plate that runs under the radiator.
The blind fasteners have a centre pin that you pry out(about 1/2",not all the way out) and then you can just pull them out. If they are the ones I am thinking of. There are also plastic rivets that are not reusable. Maybe you have a rear fascia from an 85 GT ?
No, the Trans Am spoiler is 1 piece, and the mounting points are further apart:
This looks more like a JC Whitney or similar aftermarket spoiler from the 80's or 90's.
The rear fascia on your car is from and 87-88 coupe or Formula, not the GT. If the car is an 88, that is the original/correct rear bumper. You should be able to access the fasteners after removing the tail lights, they should pop off with a screwdriver or pliers if they installed it with the same fasteners as what it originally came with.
If the car was originally blue, it's an 87. The VIN will tell you the year for sure. The RPO code sheet will also give you the original paint code.
Frame rot on Michigan cars typically starts at the upper rear frame rails
Well, some progress on this. The frame is rusty, but nothing like rust through. I've got it far enough apart to get a decent look at the upper rear frame rails and they are solid. It looks like the only rust throughs are the pan under the radiator, the battery box, and both sides of the trunk. All that looks like relatively simple sheet metal weld in, so it's all doable. Next step is to drop the engine cradle so I can get to everything.
I've adjusted my plans a bit. I'm going to proceed with the frame derust/encapsulate, the suspension rebuild/upgrade and the body repair. Also the interior repair. Since the 4 cylinder engine/transmission are OK, I will probably reinstall it after everything else is fixed to get the car on the road. Then I will start working on the 3800SC swap. I've got the 3800 but it can sit in the corner until the rest is taken care of.
