About a year ago, I more or less finished the bulk of the "refresh" on this car. It had been garaged, but I still needed to tackle some of the havoc Father Time created, including headliner, speakers, tires, brakes, wheel bearings, plugs/wires, fluids, filters, etc. Because the car nose-dived significantly under braking, I also replaced the front shocks. Because that created a height discrepancy with the rear, I then replaced the rear struts. I kept the original springs and had the car aligned. Again, tires are brand new and road-force balanced. Front suspension has been lubed, and I also replaced the steering shock since it was cheap and easy.
Question:
In the spring when I unpack the car, I want to address some uneasiness in the steering wheel at highway speeds. The steering wheel has a small shimmy/wobble to it, and the steering generally feels light and insecure above 60 MPH.
I can see nothing obviously wrong when I get the car up on the lift, but I haven't put much effort into an assessment to this point, and my suspension knowledge is somewhat limited. I don't know if the springs might be playing a part, or if it is probably just a matter of old rubber in the joints.
If you were restoring this car and wanted to make it "factory new," what parts would you look to on the front end first? I don't mind throwing some money at it, but obviously there's a limit. I want to keep everything stock-ish.
Check preload on the front wheel bearings. Check for cracking of the OEM rubber suspension bushings, front and rear. Check tire pressures. Check alignment.
The steering will be light feeling, it's typical of mid-engine cars to feel a bit 'nervous' (compared to front engined cars) in a straight line at speed.
[This message has been edited by olejoedad (edited 12-09-2019).]
I would also add to the list a wheel balancing, that is a major cause of steering wheel shake. Sorry I did not read that you had already done that. But sometimes even new tires will go out of balance. I have had wheel weights fall off and then the steering wheel shakes.
------------------ 86 GT built 2.2 ecotec turbo rear SLA suspension QA1 coilovers on tube arms
[This message has been edited by wftb (edited 12-09-2019).]
Alignment is done (twice) Wheel balance done (twice, with the second time being road force balanced) Tire pressures are correct per the door sticker. Preload was done meticulously on the front wheel bearings when I replaced them due to noise. They are lubed with the proper high temp grease and have no undesirable play.
Checking for old and cracked rubber bushings is certainly on the to-do list.
[This message has been edited by USMUCL (edited 12-09-2019).]
You may need to find the "Wright rench to fit that loose nut behind the wheel" like I do......(Sorry, old silly joke)
There is another remote possibility- I actually had a tire that was very slightly out of round, once......It was unnoticeable at anything below 40, but above it got worse; Realigned, re-balanced and then the guy found the tire was out of round!
[This message has been edited by cvxjet (edited 12-09-2019).]
What is the condition of the ball joints and tie rod ends? I would also check for play in the steering rack.
Will 11,700 miles, I seriously doubt that any hard parts are worn out. Bearings may flatspot from sitting, but doubtful on the ball joints or rod ends.
So, if I'm confident in the tires, tire balancing, wheel bearings, wheel bearing preload, and alignment . . . and the low mileage would likely have not affected "hard parts," then that leaves just the rubber bits, right?
Off the top of your heads, what rubber parts does that entail? Like I said, I'm learning the suspension stuff as I go, so I will take the suggested "parts list" and start searching DIYs . . .
Fiero Store has rebuilt arms listed. Looks like 1020.00 or so for all six. Big incentive to do it yourself, you could buy a lot of tools for that kind of money. They look nice though, new bushings and ball joints and powder coated too.
------------------ 86 GT built 2.2 ecotec turbo rear SLA suspension QA1 coilovers on tube arms
Thanks, guys. Assuming no damage from an accident, do the arms ever go "bad," or just the bushings? Just curious if the need to burn the bushings out is the only reason to replace the entire arm
Anyone think there is much chance having the original springs still is causing any handling issues at highway speed?
Would hate to go through the pain of changing them out for no reason, especially on the rear. Again, the shocks/struts are new AC/Delco.
[This message has been edited by USMUCL (edited 12-12-2019).]
Unless damaged in an accident, i doubt if the springs need replacement at 11,700 miles..... You might want to replace the upper spring rubbers, but i doubt they are a problem either.
Rubber bushings are vulcanized to the outer sleeves. When replacing with rubber, the sleeves are already on the bushings, its a matter of pressing out the OEM sleeve. If going to poly, the sleeve is reused, so its easier to burn the rubber out.
It has been my experience reviving cars that have been stored for a long period that most if not all the rubber bushings are pretty much dried out and hard, even low mileage ones. My '65 Mustang had 26K actual on it when I found it, stored for 28 years. All the rubber bushings were hard as a rock.
Unless damaged in an accident, i doubt if the springs need replacement at 11,700 miles..... You might want to replace the upper spring rubbers, but i doubt they are a problem either.
Rubber bushings are vulcanized to the outer sleeves. When replacing with rubber, the sleeves are already on the bushings, its a matter of pressing out the OEM sleeve. If going to poly, the sleeve is reused, so its easier to burn the rubber out.
So, "burning out" the old bushings is only necessary if going to poly and not for rubber-to-rubber? The car is obviously not tracked . . . or even driven hard . . . so rubber is all I need.
I appreciate the continued feedback from everyone here.
I'm on the Fiero Store's website. Confirming this is right if I want to replace all the old rubber bushings in the suspension of the car with new RUBBER?
Two pairs of front upper control arm bushings (4 total) Two pairs of front lower control arm bushings (4 total) Two pairs of rear lower control arm bushings (4 total) One pair of cradle bushings (2 total) One pair of sway bar bushings (2 total) One pair of sway bar end links (2 total)
Are the quantities correct, and/or did I miss any rubber bushings anywhere?
AZ and others have Moog or equiv and online orders often is cheaper than TFS and RA w/ free shipping. See my Cave, Suspension Parts and rest of section.
Rubber CA bushing is best for people driving on the street.
If bolts are stuck/frozen Do Not Cut or Heat them. Cut rubber as needed, find seem on inner sleeve, and center punch right next to that to open that seem. Bolts Nuts and often even the washers when used are often Class 10.9 or harder and right replacements are hard to find and expensive when/if you find.
You need a press kit and make spacers so press kit doesn't damage the arm to press in and out of the parts.
------------------ Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should. (Jurassic Park)
Ogre,I will certainly research the install through your cave. I agree that Moog from Advance is the way to go, especially with the online coupon codes. But, Moog shows multiple part numbers for the Front/Lower bushings, so I'll have to figure that one out.
Olejoedad, do you have a recommendation where to get the cradle bushings? Fiero Store only shows the fronts, and I can't find either pairs when I search Advance, Autozone, or Rock Auto. By the way, I have already done both transmission mounts because one was making noise, but I didn't do the motor mount. Perhaps I will do that now also.
For the cradle bushings, get Rodney's solid aluminum mounts. There is no reason to use rubber or poly there. Tightens up the handling a bit and no increase in ride harshness. Price wise I don't know, I bought my bushings a long time ago from Daryl Morse.
Unless damaged in an accident, i doubt if the springs need replacement at 11,700 miles.....
All depends, the car could have been a trailer princess and have alot of tow miles on her which will wear down springs / shocks. I tend to believe anything over time wears regardless though.
I really am suprised nobody has brought up a new Stabilizer. The one on the car may only have 12k on it but I am sure its lost its pressure by now.
Could also check rack mount bushing as an age wear item and less likely but possible the actual rack bushing may have some wear. Maybe the guy liked to sit in the car turn the wheel back and forth and make race car sounds? Best of Luck.
Originally posted by Phirewire: All depends, the car could have been a trailer princess and have alot of tow miles on her which will wear down springs / shocks. I tend to believe anything over time wears regardless though.
I really am suprised nobody has brought up a new Stabilizer. The one on the car may only have 12k on it but I am sure its lost its pressure by now.
Could also check rack mount bushing as an age wear item and less likely but possible the actual rack bushing may have some wear. Maybe the guy liked to sit in the car turn the wheel back and forth and make race car sounds? Best of Luck.
Stabilizer strut was replaced already when I did the shocks/struts, given how easy and cheap they are.
I have ordered the control arm bushings, sway bar bushings, and end link bushings. Gonna hold off on the cradle bushings for now until I can determine what it will take to install - I do not want to have to drop the whole cradle. While I have no doubt that 32 year old cradle bushings might be hurting cornering, I doubt they are contributing to my highway, straight line steering uneasiness/wobble.
But, what about the rubber on the tie rods and ball joints? Are those just dust covers and "grease holders," or would their condition affect driveability also?
Suspension parts really are new for me, so forgive the dumb question. I get that the ball joints and tie rods themselves are likely okay, given the low mileage . . .
[This message has been edited by USMUCL (edited 01-07-2020).]
Mid engine cars do feel a bit twitchy or nervous in a straight line, as compared to front engine cars.
Thanks! On some of the write ups I've seen on this forum, people were taking the time to convert the tie rod and ball joint rubber over to poly, so that had me concerned it was something that would also affect drive ability
Thanks, guys. Assuming no damage from an accident, do the arms ever go "bad," or just the bushings? Just curious if the need to burn the bushings out is the only reason to replace the entire arm
Anyone think there is much chance having the original springs still is causing any handling issues at highway speed?
Would hate to go through the pain of changing them out for no reason, especially on the rear. Again, the shocks/struts are new AC/Delco.
I bought a low mileage "49K" one owner car and the tires were out of round. Plus she had let her son drive the car and he beat the crap out of it. I had broken rear ball joint with a perfect alignment. Just because its low mileage, you don't know how it was driven.
I just placed a sizeable order with TFS today to take advantage of their 10% off special. My '88 GT only has 22k miles, but it sat still for about 19 years. The front end needed a refresh. I've already changed springs (TFS lowering springs) and dampers (KYB Gas-A-Just front, Koni Red adjustable rears, I'm looking for Koni Red fronts) and 17" wheels/tires.
My front bushings were definitely worn, to the point that there was play in the upper arm! Rob at The Fiero Store was helpful to make sure I had the right parts put together in my order.
------------------ Anthony
'88 Fiero GT 5-spd "barn find" 2012 NASA SpecE30 National Champion #80 BMW M235iR - Pirelli World Challenge TC Rooster Hall Racing / FCP Euro
Wow, big order. Looks like you're more willing to walk away from the "stock" feel/look than I am.
I ended up ordering Moog bushings for the front upper and lower control arms and the rear lower. Plus sway bar and endlink bushings.
Will start there to see if I get the front end feel I want. I would have ordered the cradle mount bushings, but that job looks pretty extensive, so I'll circle back later.
