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85 Fiero - 5 speed manual transmission doesnt give thrust when engaged by svocal
Started on: 12-03-2019 04:10 AM
Replies: 22 (309 views)
Last post by: Patrick on 12-24-2019 02:49 AM
svocal
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Report this Post12-03-2019 04:10 AM Click Here to See the Profile for svocalClick Here to Email svocalSend a Private Message to svocalEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I need your expert recommendations on this one.

I have an 85 Fiero based Lambo Diablo Roadster replica. It original had a 5 speed 2.8L, It ran okay. I had V8 Archie do a 350 sbc swap(I kept the 5 speed) then i had the frame reinforced to address the flexing issues with roadsters, it probably added about 200 - 250 lbs in materials. I also put 18 x 11 wheels on the rears. It has been sitting in storage for about 5 years.

I just tried driving it.
Here is the issue...
When i engage it into gear, I don't get that kick/thrust one usually gets. The vehicle engages softly and moves slowly either in forward or in reverse. I only drove it 1/2 a block. Even if i step on the gas, it doesn't punch it. To make a comparison....it feels like if you are driving an automatic with low or near empty transmission fluid. The car has no punch when in gear. It has a new clutch when Archie did the install. Not sure whats going on.
Any ideas?
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Will
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Report this Post12-03-2019 07:37 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Sounds like your clutch is slipping.
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olejoedad
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Report this Post12-03-2019 09:48 AM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadClick Here to Email olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Does the engine rev, but the car not accelerate, or does the engine lug?
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fierosound
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Report this Post12-03-2019 12:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierosoundClick Here to visit fierosound's HomePageClick Here to Email fierosoundSend a Private Message to fierosoundEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:

Sounds like your clutch is slipping.


Agreed. Wrong throwout bearing?

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svocal
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Report this Post12-03-2019 02:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for svocalClick Here to Email svocalSend a Private Message to svocalEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Yes... The engine revs but and makes a slight difference in thrust.
 
quote
Originally posted by olejoedad:

Does the engine rev, but the car not accelerate, or does the engine lug?


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svocal
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Report this Post12-03-2019 02:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for svocalClick Here to Email svocalSend a Private Message to svocalEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thanks to Will, Olejoedad and Fierosound for the quick response. I will have the throw out bearing replaced. I now just need to find out which clutch, throw out bearings V8 archie used.
I assume that is specific clutch and bearing?.
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Gall757
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Report this Post12-03-2019 02:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
While you are in there.....examine the rear main seal on the engine and check for any oil on the clutch. 5 years of sitting can be a problem.
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Will
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Report this Post12-03-2019 02:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by svocal:

Thanks to Will, Olejoedad and Fierosound for the quick response. I will have the throw out bearing replaced. I now just need to find out which clutch, throw out bearings V8 archie used.
I assume that is specific clutch and bearing?.


A bad throw out bearing would make noise. You just need to pull the transmission for inspection of the clutch, then figure out what's wrong from there.
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Patrick
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Report this Post12-03-2019 03:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Long shot... but make sure the rod between the slave and the lever on the transmission wasn't replaced during the engine swap with a rod which is longer than it's supposed to be. If the slave is bottoming out, the clutch will never engage completely.
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svocal
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Report this Post12-03-2019 05:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for svocalClick Here to Email svocalSend a Private Message to svocalEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I will definitely have the transmission pulled and check...

1. The throw out bearing as suggested. Even though it does not make any noise.
2. Oil leaks on the pressure plate.
3. Check the rod on the slave Cylinder and Lever.

Is there anything else i should check?

Also...Which setup(clutch, pressure plate, throw out bearing, etc) do you guys recommend for 350 swap? In case i need to replace.

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Patrick
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Report this Post12-03-2019 05:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by svocal:

I will definitely have the transmission pulled and check...

3. Check the rod on the slave Cylinder and Lever.


Perhaps this goes without saying... but check the length of the rod before pulling the tranny!

Easiest way to determine if the rod isn't too long is to clamp some vice-grips onto it, and make sure you're able to pull the rod further into the slave. If you can't pull the rod any further in, the slave may be bottoming out.

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Gall757
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Report this Post12-03-2019 06:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
85 V6 Fieros did not have a 5 speed transmission originally.....so you need a clutch that matches the trans you have, whatever it is. Archie is still to be found on the web, so you should probably contact him to find out what you have now (or describe the cable connections and we can tell you).

[This message has been edited by Gall757 (edited 12-03-2019).]

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svocal
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Report this Post12-03-2019 07:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for svocalClick Here to Email svocalSend a Private Message to svocalEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thanks to Gall757 and Patrick for the additional suggestions. Will do that before pulling the tranny.
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olejoedad
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Report this Post12-03-2019 11:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadClick Here to Email olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Did it operate properly prior to being placed into storage?
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svocal
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Report this Post12-04-2019 03:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for svocalClick Here to Email svocalSend a Private Message to svocalEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by olejoedad:

Did it operate properly prior to being placed into storage?



To be honest... When i picked it up from V8 archie( back in 2013 when he had his shop in IL), We took it for a test drive. It was a bit of a rough ride and the car would shake momentarily when i would put it in gear but I could feel the punch. I thought I just need to break it in. I already had about 150 lbs of chassis reinforcement at that time. That was the last time i drove it before completing the diablo kit on it. since then I added prob another 100 lbs for additonal chassis work plus the 19 x 11 wheels. I would start the motor once a month and let it run for about 15 mins. Just to hear it. ha ha ha

I noticed the clutch issue last year when i was driving it up onto the flatbed. Trying to drive up the inclined flat bed was a task. I had it in 1st gear with my foot on the pedal and it was barely moving up the flatbed.

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olejoedad
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Report this Post12-05-2019 08:34 AM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadClick Here to Email olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Even with the added weight and increased rotational mass, the V-8 should move the car quickly.
Before pulling everything apart, I would check the throwout arm shaft for binding. Perhaps the long period of storage has allowed some corrosion that is preventing full rotation of the shaft when releasing the clutch.

A squirt of penetrating oil might save you a lot of work and money.
Shoot some on the top of the shaft under the throwout arm and pump the clutch pedal several times.
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sledcaddie
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Report this Post12-06-2019 03:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sledcaddieSend a Private Message to sledcaddieEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
[QUOTE]Originally posted by svocal:

I need your expert recommendations on this one.

I have an 85 Fiero based Lambo Diablo Roadster replica. It original had a 5 speed 2.8L,

5-speeds were not offered in 1985 for the V-6.

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Report this Post12-06-2019 05:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadClick Here to Email olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I find it hard to believe that Archie would anything out of his shop that wasnt road tested and in proper order.
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svocal
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Report this Post12-06-2019 05:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for svocalClick Here to Email svocalSend a Private Message to svocalEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by olejoedad:

Even with the added weight and increased rotational mass, the V-8 should move the car quickly.
Before pulling everything apart, I would check the throwout arm shaft for binding. Perhaps the long period of storage has allowed some corrosion that is preventing full rotation of the shaft when releasing the clutch.

A squirt of penetrating oil might save you a lot of work and money.
Shoot some on the top of the shaft under the throwout arm and pump the clutch pedal several times.



Thank you olejoedad for the recommendation
I hope to try that this weekend. I will update you on the progress.
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svocal
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Report this Post12-06-2019 05:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for svocalClick Here to Email svocalSend a Private Message to svocalEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

svocal

84 posts
Member since Apr 2008
 
quote
Originally posted by sledcaddie:

[QUOTE]Originally posted by svocal:

I need your expert recommendations on this one.

I have an 85 Fiero based Lambo Diablo Roadster replica. It original had a 5 speed 2.8L,

5-speeds were not offered in 1985 for the V-6.



Sledcaddie
You are correct. I should have clarified that the my replica had the 4spd replaced with a 5spd before i took it to V8 Archie
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svocal
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Report this Post12-06-2019 06:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for svocalClick Here to Email svocalSend a Private Message to svocalEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by olejoedad:

I find it hard to believe that Archie would anything out of his shop that wasnt road tested and in proper order.



I am in no way questioning Archie's work, In the past he has always been helpful in answering questions about fieros an swaps.
As mentioned previously, the car ran ok during the road test when i picked it. I was a bit intimidated by the power of 350. I wasn't use to the punch when shifting gears so i looked like a first timer driving a clutch.
The car would shake as i engaged into gear momentarily(like when you are trying to start/crank your car..) , then it would be fine.
After sitting in my garage for 5 years is when i noticed the clutch issue. I thought maybe it was the hydraulic fluid. but mechanic said it wasnt.
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olejoedad
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Report this Post12-06-2019 07:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadClick Here to Email olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I know you weren't questioning Archie's work, we all know what great work he and his team did.
I was just pointing out that the car was set up correctly, and the.problem is from lack of use, not incorrect parts.
Its my hope its a matter of lubrication and exercising the clutch system, rather that an expensive teardown, that gets you back on the road.

Keep us posted with your progress.
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Patrick
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Report this Post12-24-2019 02:49 AM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Did you get this sorted out?
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