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Fierrari Mondial engine by stickpony
Started on: 12-02-2019 06:47 PM
Replies: 9 (166 views)
Last post by: Will on 12-03-2019 02:54 PM
stickpony
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Report this Post12-02-2019 06:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for stickponyClick Here to visit stickpony's HomePageSend a Private Message to stickponyReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
has anyone ever done a Ferrai Mondial v8 engine in a fiero? Its transversely mounted, so i would think it could be done...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/En...Gearbox/283580934987

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cvxjet
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Report this Post12-02-2019 07:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cvxjetClick Here to Email cvxjetSend a Private Message to cvxjetReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Number 1) The Ferrari engines are extremely expensive to purchase......But let's say someone dumps one in your front yard....then number 2) They take a lot of maintenance.......and then Number 3) Getting parts-even service parts- for them is A) difficult and b) very expensive.

Number 4) They are very un-efficient; Newer 4 valve engines have improved, but the old ones concentrated all of their power at the top with no low end, and they get single-digit MPG numbers....

An LS4 GM engine is A) Lighter, b) Smaller, C) cheaper, D) easier to pump up, and E) can get much better MPG (Highway +30 mpg)

For $16,000 you could have an LS4 built that would develop 400 hp and still get 30 mpg...and be bullet-proof!

The Fiero GT with a higher power version of the 60* V6 (3400/3500/3900) would beat the crap out of a 308 and even a 328- admittedly it would not impress the (Idiot) general public as much as a ferrari......
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Will
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Report this Post12-03-2019 07:51 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The 308 QVs (which is the engine linked) were 240ish HP, while the 328s were 270ish.

The K-Jet 2 valve 308s were down around 215 HP and pretty pathetic.

On the transverse Ferraris, the gearbox is actually UNDER the engine, so the engine sits 5ish inches higher in the engine bay than it should... Not good for CG height. The engine sitting high in the bay under a lid means the intake stacks are short and power is limited. Also, the cam covers may interfere with the upper portions of the Fiero engine bay.

The engine uses two timing belts and the drive protrudes from the front of the block a good bit. There might or might not be problems fitting that inside the right Fiero frame rail.


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stickpony
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Report this Post12-03-2019 08:35 AM Click Here to See the Profile for stickponyClick Here to visit stickpony's HomePageSend a Private Message to stickponyReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by cvxjet:

Number 1) The Ferrari engines are extremely expensive to purchase......But let's say someone dumps one in your front yard....then number 2) They take a lot of maintenance.......and then Number 3) Getting parts-even service parts- for them is A) difficult and b) very expensive.

Number 4) They are very un-efficient; Newer 4 valve engines have improved, but the old ones concentrated all of their power at the top with no low end, and they get single-digit MPG numbers....

An LS4 GM engine is A) Lighter, b) Smaller, C) cheaper, D) easier to pump up, and E) can get much better MPG (Highway +30 mpg)

For $16,000 you could have an LS4 built that would develop 400 hp and still get 30 mpg...and be bullet-proof!

The Fiero GT with a higher power version of the 60* V6 (3400/3500/3900) would beat the crap out of a 308 and even a 328- admittedly it would not impress the (Idiot) general public as much as a ferrari......


you missed the point of this exorcise entirely
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stickpony
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Report this Post12-03-2019 08:37 AM Click Here to See the Profile for stickponyClick Here to visit stickpony's HomePageSend a Private Message to stickponyReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

stickpony

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quote
Originally posted by Will:

The 308 QVs (which is the engine linked) were 240ish HP, while the 328s were 270ish.

The K-Jet 2 valve 308s were down around 215 HP and pretty pathetic.

On the transverse Ferraris, the gearbox is actually UNDER the engine, so the engine sits 5ish inches higher in the engine bay than it should... Not good for CG height. The engine sitting high in the bay under a lid means the intake stacks are short and power is limited. Also, the cam covers may interfere with the upper portions of the Fiero engine bay.

The engine uses two timing belts and the drive protrudes from the front of the block a good bit. There might or might not be problems fitting that inside the right Fiero frame rail.



all good things to consider... I'm just curious if anyone has ever done it . im also curious about the gear ratios in the transmission.

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Tony Kania
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Report this Post12-03-2019 09:10 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Tony KaniaSend a Private Message to Tony KaniaReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
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Will
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Report this Post12-03-2019 11:30 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by stickpony:

all good things to consider... I'm just curious if anyone has ever done it . im also curious about the gear ratios in the transmission.


I've found them before... Google knows.

The QV engines still had the K-Jet fuel injection, which is pretty terrible. There is a guy who converts K-Jet manifolding to take modern port EFI. Here's a thread on that job: https://www.ferrarilife.com...-efi-conversion.html
You can also resell the K-Jet module to a rebuilder.

These guys will modify the block and install 89mm sleeves to punch the original 3.0 (actually 2.9) out to 3.5. The resulting block can be stroked to 3.9 with the crankshaft from a Ferrari 360.
http://www.nicksforzaferrar...rariwebsite1_080.htm

Of course along with that mod, it would be silly not to go with bigger cams, port work, and generally do a big build. Ferrari engines have plenty of potential, but it takes $$$$ to extract. Nick claims close to 400 at the wheels and a 9000 RPM redline from a 3.5. http://www.nicksforzaferrar...rariwebsite1_085.htm

Cat cams has fairly aggressive 2V and 5V (CV) cams, but does not have a listing specifically for the QV engine. The QV and CV engines use the same exhaust cams, so Cat may be willing to do a custom order set of intake and exhaust QV cams.

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 12-03-2019).]

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cvxjet
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Report this Post12-03-2019 01:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cvxjetClick Here to Email cvxjetSend a Private Message to cvxjetReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by stickpony:


you missed the point of this exorcise entirely


I was just trying to point out that those engines are ridiculously expensive and not very efficient....It would be a ton of money for a car that would not perform very well and would be difficult and expensive to upkeep- My Father's neighbor back in 83-86 had a 308...He had it tuned up for $1700....And he was not happy about how it turned out, but the "Guaranteed" service would have been $3000!

We are used to engines that run for 100,000 miles on just oil changes and maybe a couple of tuneups....Those Ferrari engines are DESIGNED to need lots of service- timing chains are supposed to be changed every 5000 miles......

I get that it would blow people's minds to pop the lid at a car show and have them see a Ferrari engine in there- but you would end up only being able to afford going to a few car shows and otherwise never driving it. Similar situation; My ex-GFs father bought her a used Mercedes SL for her 17th BD.... $3000- what a deal....Only had a bad transmission....Then he found out that fixing that Trans would cost $4000! (This was in 1990) So the car sat for 5-6 years and he finally unloaded it for $2000.....
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Dennis LaGrua
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Report this Post12-03-2019 01:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaClick Here to Email Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by cvxjet:


I was just trying to point out that those engines are ridiculously expensive and not very efficient....It would be a ton of money for a car that would not perform very well and would be difficult and expensive to upkeep- My Father's neighbor back in 83-86 had a 308...He had it tuned up for $1700....And he was not happy about how it turned out, but the "Guaranteed" service would have been $3000!

We are used to engines that run for 100,000 miles on just oil changes and maybe a couple of tuneups....Those Ferrari engines are DESIGNED to need lots of service- timing chains are supposed to be changed every 5000 miles......

I get that it would blow people's minds to pop the lid at a car show and have them see a Ferrari engine in there- but you would end up only being able to afford going to a few car shows and otherwise never driving it. Similar situation; My ex-GFs father bought her a used Mercedes SL for her 17th BD.... $3000- what a deal....Only had a bad transmission....Then he found out that fixing that Trans would cost $4000! (This was in 1990) So the car sat for 5-6 years and he finally unloaded it for $2000.....

I don't see the point of a Ferrari engine swap in a Fiero either. Those engines are designed for performance cars owned by the rich and famous who have the funds necessary to keep those cars running and on the road. Even if a swap were attempted I would have serious doubts about it fitting in the Fiero engine compartment. IMO the risk is not worth the reward when there are other engines available for a swap.

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Will
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Report this Post12-03-2019 02:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by cvxjet:

Those Ferrari engines are DESIGNED to need lots of service- timing chains are supposed to be changed every 5000 miles......

I get that it would blow people's minds to pop the lid at a car show and have them see a Ferrari engine in there- but you would end up only being able to afford going to a few car shows and otherwise never driving it. Similar situation; My ex-GFs father bought her a used Mercedes SL for her 17th BD.... $3000- what a deal....Only had a bad transmission....Then he found out that fixing that Trans would cost $4000! (This was in 1990) So the car sat for 5-6 years and he finally unloaded it for $2000.....


The Dino engines use timing BELTS and the old original designs are good for 30,000 miles or so. Belts are lighter than chains, so the engine can spin up just a little faster. However the OE belts are old tech. There are aftermarket sprockets available that use more modern belt designs to significantly increase the belt change interval.

There's not much that's more expensive than a cheap Mercedes. Speaking of which, I got a deal on a 2005 E320 CDI... Already had to replace a ball joint and it only has a *FEW* codes.

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 12-03-2019).]

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