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Overheating but not really? Air in system or other problem? Need help diagnosing by cebix
Started on: 10-31-2019 03:34 PM
Replies: 62 (633 views)
Last post by: olejoedad on 11-12-2019 09:02 AM
olejoedad
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Report this Post11-09-2019 02:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadClick Here to Email olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Good thoughts Patrick...
Cold cabin and hot engine at idle, hot cabin and cool engine at RPM....

It is flow related, I'm thinking water pump, even though it is new.

I suppose the flow issue could be a blockage, but it would have to be before the T-stat housing - internal to the engine - to see those results IMHO.

Cebix, what does the car do if you remove the thermostat and drive it?

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Report this Post11-09-2019 02:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by olejoedad:

It is flow related, I'm thinking water pump, even though it is new.


I was wondering that as well... and if it was a 2.8 I'd suspect a slipping plastic impeller, but this is a duke.

If the OP was local, I'd go have a look just out of curiosity... but Poland is a long drive.

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cebix
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Report this Post11-09-2019 04:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cebixSend a Private Message to cebixEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

So they supposedly flushed the cooling system when rebuilding the engine. They said some crap came out but not much. But I think I'll get it double checked by another shop.

Did I mention I had the same problem before the rebuild? I even linked my old thread some posts ago. That was with the old water pump which also wasn't that old, only a few years. I think it's an Airtex if I remember correctly and it had the metal impeller, same as the new one.

EDIT: I guess a blockage inside the block is unlikely since it is a rebuilt engine. I haven't driven that much without the thermostat but it seems to work awesome without it if you ignore the long get up to temp time from a cold start.

EDIT2: I do think a blockage in the heater core is probable. And it is the "short circuit" as we call it here since it's before the thermostat. However I guess I would never have much cabin heat if that was the issue? Is still an air pocket a probability from all these posts or are you guys certain it's flow?

[This message has been edited by cebix (edited 11-09-2019).]

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olejoedad
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Report this Post11-09-2019 08:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadClick Here to Email olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

If it runs ok without tstat, drive it that way for a day or two. Meanwhile, check the tstat in a pot of hot water and see how it acts, when it starts opening and when its full open.

Keep checking coolant level.

[This message has been edited by olejoedad (edited 11-09-2019).]

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Report this Post11-10-2019 12:49 AM Click Here to See the Profile for cebixSend a Private Message to cebixEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

My both previous tstats (Stant) didn't pass that test and they were both new. They didn't open at all in a pot of boiling water. Could they also need some pressure? One I drilled through to have a small flow of water. The symptoms were the same. Now I have a Gates one and didn't check it that way yet. But I do have flow through the rad, it's hot plenty so I guess it's working alright?

[This message has been edited by cebix (edited 11-10-2019).]

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Report this Post11-10-2019 11:52 AM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadClick Here to Email olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Pull the stat, drive it a bit and tell us how the car responds to the change....

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cebix
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Report this Post11-11-2019 01:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cebixSend a Private Message to cebixEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

All right, drove it for an hour around the city with no thermostat. Here are my observations. It's 42F here outside.

1. It took forever to get up to temp but that's understandable. Good 15-20 minutes until the temperature gauge reached the second mark. Was turning heat on and off at this time to check heat but not to rob the engine of its temperature in this state. Heat was good even very early on. When up to temp it was blowing very hot like it should I guess. After this it runs great, no sudden temp rises or drops like with the tstat in.
2. However after idling for a minute or two it will slowly creep up to almost 220. Didn't stay around for it to stay higher but it would come down slowly to the second mark when driving around. Really slowly I guess, slower than it should? I stopped for gas, it took a few minutes while the engine was shut down. When I turned on the engine, the rad fan was blowing (it wasn't when I shut the car off) and the temp was a little above 220. Gave it some gas getting off the pump stand and it fell very quickly to the second mark just like with the t-stat it. Then again with driving no fluctuations but at idle it was rising slowly again to 220.

All hoses are hot and stiff. Couldn't check the coolant yet as the engine is still hot. Rad hot to the touch, rad cap plenty hot. Overflow tank didn't overflow, no noticable hisses, leaks. The hissing I was describing before I'm not sure of now - it might be something else since I can hear it coming from the engine too... but I guess it still might be an air pocket.

Do you guys have any thoughts about this?

EDIT: Checked the thermostat in boiling water... it does NOT seem to open. It stayed for a while in the water, I pulled it out and in again... nothing. What the hell, do I have 3 new broken thermostats or does it need pressure or whatever else to open?

[This message has been edited by cebix (edited 11-11-2019).]

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Gall757
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Report this Post11-11-2019 02:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by cebix:

EDIT: Checked the thermostat in boiling water... it does NOT seem to open. It stayed for a while in the water, I pulled it out and in again... nothing. What the hell, do I have 3 new broken thermostats or does it need pressure or whatever else to open?



It is a 195* thermostat.....boiling water is 212*.... so the thermostat should be open. no pressure required.

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Report this Post11-11-2019 02:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cebixSend a Private Message to cebixEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Would I get a hot radiator and hoses, etc. if it wasn't opening in the car? If it wasn't opening ever wouldn't have I overheated a long time ago on the highway?

[This message has been edited by cebix (edited 11-11-2019).]

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olejoedad
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Report this Post11-11-2019 02:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadClick Here to Email olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

If its not opening in a pan of boiling water, its not opening in the car at 195°F.

I think you have gotten some bad thermostats.
Were they all bought from the same source?

At this point, I would ignore the hissing sound and concentrate on getting a good thermostat in the car.

Solve one problem at a time.....

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Report this Post11-11-2019 02:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cebixSend a Private Message to cebixEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Yes, one normal Stant, one Stant SuperStat 45819 and now I bought a Gates 33529S since it was supposed to arrive here the quickest. All bought from rockauto.

So if it's stuck all the time is it possible the engine would run normally on the highway for hours?

[This message has been edited by cebix (edited 11-11-2019).]

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Report this Post11-11-2019 03:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by cebix:

So if it's stuck all the time is it possible the engine would run normally on the highway for hours?



It's possible, depending on ambient air temp. Fiero coolant capacity is waaay beyond what is needed for a 2.5 liter engine.

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Report this Post11-11-2019 03:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cebixSend a Private Message to cebixEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

All right... buying a new thermostat then. Will return to this thread in a week or two when it arrives hopefully and see if it helps. I think I'm gonna try ACDELCO 12T50E for a change.

This time I'm going to test it in boiling water before putting it in the car.

EDIT: Just to be sure - what I described when I was running without a thermostat sounds normal?

[This message has been edited by cebix (edited 11-11-2019).]

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Patrick
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Report this Post11-11-2019 03:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by cebix:

I think I'm gonna try ACDELCO 12T50E for a change.


The superior one recommended here for years is the Stant SuperStat 45819 (195º).

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Report this Post11-11-2019 03:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadClick Here to Email olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I think it should have gained temperature faster than you experienced without the stat.
You may still have a flow volume issue, but lets worry about that after you get a properly working thermostat.

Do yourself a favor and lose the Rock Auto contact information.
Other's experience may vary, but I have never had good results with what they sell.

Does anyone following this thread have a known good t-stand they can send this fellow?

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Report this Post11-11-2019 03:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cebixSend a Private Message to cebixEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Yeah it's a hit and miss with Rockauto for me, other then those pesky thermostats the only big issue I've ever had with them was a wrong flexplate and they issued a refund without wanting it back, so that was okay I guess. No shipping cost and tax return though. But they're pretty much the only store I've found that ships internationally and I've been buying from them since 2011. Autozone, O'Reilly, Autopartswarehouse, don't offer international shipping. If you guys use any other stores, please state their names, I'll see if they offer shipping outside USA. EDIT: Fierostore and Summitracing ship too internationally but their quotes are twice or sometimes more than what rockauto proposes.

Just a thermostat is $7.99-$17.99 shipping cost according to Rockauto to Poland. If anyone has a good known thermostat I'd be willing to purchase that.

Patrick, I already have one that is also stuck closed so not sure of trusting them again.

EDIT: Just checked my coolant as the car cooled down. It's full at the thermostat cap - just at where I filled it today when removing the thermostat.

EDIT2: Ordered a SuperStat 45819 again, let's see what it does. Yeah, again from Rockauto. Should be here by Friday...

[This message has been edited by cebix (edited 11-11-2019).]

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Report this Post11-11-2019 04:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by cebix:

Patrick, I already have one that is also stuck closed so not sure of trusting them again.


The exact same part number as the one I mentioned?

I'm asking because Stant sells two different 195° thermostats for this application. You don't want the cheaper one, you want the SuperStat.

 
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:

The superior one recommended here for years is the Stant SuperStat 45819 (195º).

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Report this Post11-11-2019 05:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cebixSend a Private Message to cebixEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Yes, the exact part number. The cheaper one is 13819. I bought 45819 from the premium category.

https://www.rockauto.com/en...9039&jsn=307&jsn=307

I rechecked my old order and it is the same number. So I just thought what the hell, I'll buy it again and see how it goes even though I obviously wasn't satisfied with that previous one.

[This message has been edited by cebix (edited 11-11-2019).]

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Report this Post11-11-2019 05:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by cebix:

I rechecked my old order and it is the same number. So I just thought what the hell, I'll buy it again and see how it goes even though I obviously wasn't satisfied with that previous one.


Well, I suppose there can always be a dud. That's unfortunate.

It's too bad that Rodney Dickman is apparently no longer still selling these particular thermostats. After being made aware of what you've gone through, he probably would've dropped a new one into a pot of boiling water to double-check it before shipping it to you.

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 11-12-2019).]

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cebix
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Report this Post11-11-2019 05:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cebixSend a Private Message to cebixEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Yeah, I've bought some parts from Rodney over the years, mainly suspension stuff. All my ball joints and tie rods and tie rod ends from him are good still.

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olejoedad
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Report this Post11-11-2019 08:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadClick Here to Email olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Be sure to monitor the coolant level in the expansion tank also.

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Report this Post11-12-2019 01:40 AM Click Here to See the Profile for cebixSend a Private Message to cebixEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Yes, that level is good too.

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Report this Post11-12-2019 09:02 AM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadClick Here to Email olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

That is a good sign that your coolant system has stabilized, no leaks and no gains...

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