Hey y'all! Had a massive coolant blowout on a road trip today - I've got a 85 v6, engine was rebuilt by previous owner 20k ago.
Was driving, gauges fine, then suddenly had a spike in engine temp and a cloud of coolant steam from the engine compartment. Stopped the car, checked and it looks like it was coming from the water pump. There's an odd knock, but the engine itself revs and drives fine (when cool after sitting). I got the car off the highway, with a trail of coolant behind me, and made it to a hotel parking lot.
Now I need to figure out what happened - no exhaust smoke, so I doubt head gasket blew. Massive coolant puddle under the cat, and around the top right side of the engine. Basically won't run at this point (overheats, or hard to crank which is strange).
I might need to tow it to back to Cleveland on a trailer btw - any advice?
Sounds like you blew a water hose. If I'm right, cancel the trailer. Buy a hose and a few clamps and a screwdriver. Get some coolant to replace what was lost. Also check to see if you still have a belt. This could of started the whole thing.
Spoon
------------------ "Kilgore Trout once wrote a short story which was a dialogue between two pieces of yeast. They were discussing the possible purposes of life as they ate sugar and suffocated in their own excrement. Because of their limited intelligence, they never came close to guessing that they were making champagne." - Kurt Vonnegut
[This message has been edited by Spoon (edited 10-18-2019).]
My experience with water pump failures (which may or may not be standard) is that they leak relatively slowly as opposed to a "massive coolant blowout".
As mentioned previously, I'd check over all the hoses and see if one split open.
I doubt this will apply here but maybe this will help.
I had a similar issue several years ago where I was driving down the highway in my 94 honda accord and just like what happened to you happened to me. I noticed white smoking coming out of the hood and the heater gauge was all the way up. I would wait for things to cool down and after pouring some left over water, everything was fine. I would drive another mile or 2 down the road and it would happen all over again.
Long story short, what would happen is there was a very tiny oil leak that would drop down a metal part and rest on one of the rubber coolant hoses. The oil and the heat eventually made a hole in the hose (very tiny) and when you would drive and the coolant would get pressurized, it would eventually force its way through and spill all of the coolant until the pressure and temperatures would drop. Cleaning up the oil, fixing the leak, and replacing the hose fixed the issue.
Anyways, not sure if this is what's happening to you but I hope it helps!
Sounds like a hose. Just a thought, try looking at the hoses that connect to the metal coolant pipes. When I imported my '86 GT into Australia, Customs damaged the hose with a high pressure water jet while "cleaning" the car. The hose failed on the way home from the shipping terminal with the same results you are experiencing.
@Gall757- only strange because it did it once it was cold to the touch. Just sounded funky and took a few extra seconds than I'm used to.
It was dark last night by the time I got to the hotel parking lot and I still had to Uber to my meetings in Philly downtown last night. I'm heading back to the car in about an hour - I'll check hoses and see if the water pump is seized.
@Patrick, I agree feel like water pumps on most carsdon't usually do big shows haha. The banging noise is what concerned me on the pump front.
@cunnive - I'll check thanks!!
@mikeinaustralia - double thanks - I just need to find a way to look under the car without jacks or tools )
One warning for if you replace the waterpump- Do not use one with a plastic impeller- Only metal; The plastic impeller is exposed to heat first before any heat gets to the metal shaft it is mounted on.....The plastic, being more thermally active, will expand away from the cold shaft- The impeller will start slipping.
There are successful plastic-impeller pumps- the shaft has to be Keyed to keep the impeller attached properly......But with the Fiero/aftermarket situation, better to just be safe!
I feel like I'll be stuck with whatever is in stock her in Philly - car needs to get home, then we'll get it right when it's back in my shop. If it's hoses it's easy, but the pump will be more of a challenge to do in a parking lot
I had a couple water pumps fail such that the seal went bad and caused coolant to pour out the weep hole. It's not something you'll notice while driving, unless you happen to see the stream of coolant the car is leaving behind. But eventually, the engine will run out of coolant. Then the proverbial poop hits the fan. It'll be blowing steam out the weep hole. There will be coolant everywhere (because it was leaking for some time). And the engine will be making strange noises.
Anyway, the point is that it may seem like a sudden catastrophic event to you, simply because you weren't aware of what was going on in the background. Chances are the water pump failed. And if the engine critically overheated, there may be other damage (like a warped or cracked cylinder head). Best of luck.
I was checking availability of water pumps in the Philly area; Sadly O'Reilly does not have a store nearby- They show what material the impeller is so you know what you are getting- in that area, you have Pepboys, Autozone, and Napa- and none of them tell you what material the impeller is.
One detail- Summit Racing carries the AC/Delco pump, which I am willing to bet is better than most for quality- including metal impeller- Here in SF Bay area, I order something from Summit and I get it within two days (From NV warehouse)...Don't know what the delivery time is in the Philly area.....
Just checked Carquest and they show one with cast iron impeller- but have to order for delivery to store near you. PN T4106
And yes, I understand that the pump may not be your problem, but I figured I'd do some research for you....
[This message has been edited by cvxjet (edited 10-19-2019).]
Ok update: the water pump does turn, but there is significant slop in the pulley on the water pump - thinking bearing failure?
We started the engine for about 30 seconds with the thermometer cap off, there was an immediate (first crank) smoke/steam from the cap and constant smoke/steam while running. There was nothing from the exhaust. The water pump was rattling loudly ( we think - otherwise I have a destroyed engine block, but it still revs and sounds great) and had both in/out and angular play while running on the pulley. How should we go about checking coolant pipes/lines? Engine on/off?
I'm on the hunt for a water pump, but will be needing to put it in in a hotel parking lot. What are the absolute necessities tool-wise? Any advice to expedite the job?
Ok update: the water pump does turn, but there is significant slop in the pulley on the water pump - thinking bearing failure?
We started the engine for about 30 seconds with the thermometer cap off, there was an immediate (first crank) smoke/steam from the cap and constant smoke/steam while running. There was nothing from the exhaust. The water pump was rattling loudly ( we think - otherwise I have a destroyed engine block, but it still revs and sounds great) and had both in/out and angular play while running on the pulley. How should we go about checking coolant pipes/lines? Engine on/off?
I'm on the hunt for a water pump, but will be needing to put it in in a hotel parking lot. What are the absolute necessities tool-wise? Any advice to expedite the job?
I went through
Good luck on your water pump hunt. If worse comes to worse I removed a water pump with metal impeller from my 2.8 a few months ago and I'm 32 miles west of Philly. Never leaked and has around 50k on it. I'd never install a used pump but under the circumstances a good used one is better than none at all. If you find your situation more grim I have the whole 2.8 engine minus some nuts and bolts if you need it / 88k.
Not something you'd want to challenge in a parking lot and rain is in the forecast for all day tomorrow. If I didn't have a full schedule tomorrow and Monday I'd offer to assist you. Where in Philly are you?
Pic of my 2.8 from a year ago. Has 3800sc now.
Spoon
------------------ "Kilgore Trout once wrote a short story which was a dialogue between two pieces of yeast. They were discussing the possible purposes of life as they ate sugar and suffocated in their own excrement. Because of their limited intelligence, they never came close to guessing that they were making champagne." - Kurt Vonnegut
Not something you'd want to challenge in a parking lot and rain is in the forecast for all day tomorrow. If I didn't have a full schedule tomorrow and Monday I'd offer to assist you. Where in Philly are you?
Currently parked in the parking lot of a hotel in Downingtown. I've got harbor freight tools now, plus new coolant hoses and a water pump being delivered at noon. The pump is probably trash but it's enough to get back to Cleveland.
I'm gonna pull the wheel well and stuff on the right side and attack through there. Thanks for the links to the other threads y'all! I'm actively concerned about not having the clamp for the timing cover, but we will see how that goes...
Be very careful of the small screws in the water pump- they can easily strip out their threads in the front cover.
If by chance you get a WP with a plastic impeller, let the car IDLE until it has completely warmed up- somewhere around a half hour to an hour- so the shaft heats up..Mine failed when I was driving to work in the morning...Start up, idle for 5 minutes, then head to work and at 8 minute mark I accelerated hard onto the freeway- started slipping and then at exactly the same place on the freeway it overheated two seperate times (At first I thought it had to be a bad thermostat)
For those of you that have done this job before I've never been in through the wheel well. It's pretty hard to get up next to the water pump any advice or am I just going at it the wrong way?
Are you really going to challenge this job outside in the rain? What hotel are you at?
Spoon
------------------ "Kilgore Trout once wrote a short story which was a dialogue between two pieces of yeast. They were discussing the possible purposes of life as they ate sugar and suffocated in their own excrement. Because of their limited intelligence, they never came close to guessing that they were making champagne." - Kurt Vonnegut
Unfortunately yes. I was supposed to be back in Cleveland yesterday I definitely need to be up for work tomorrow and I would really rather not leave the car in another state a 7 hour drive away.
Honestly it wouldn't be so bad if I had my tools instead I just have whatever was available bargain-basement at Harbor freight. I got the car up on jack stands got the right rear wheel off and got the wheel well out.
I just got the new pump it's got a metal impeller. Working on removal of the old now.
I'm at the Hampton Inn in downingtown
[This message has been edited by cle_fiero (edited 10-20-2019).]
I just got home. I'm 13 miles from your location but I'm old and don't want to work in the rain. If you have a way to have it towed to my garage 23 miles west of your location on business route 30, You can borrow my garage space and keep dry. I have plenty of tools and a car lift plus 2.8 engine parts. Let me know or send me your cell #. Ironically a few years ago a Fiero sat in that very parking lot for nearly a week and it didn't move. I figured it was the help but then it disappeared.
Spoon
------------------ "Kilgore Trout once wrote a short story which was a dialogue between two pieces of yeast. They were discussing the possible purposes of life as they ate sugar and suffocated in their own excrement. Because of their limited intelligence, they never came close to guessing that they were making champagne." - Kurt Vonnegut
I just got home. I'm 13 miles from your location but I'm old and don't want to work in the rain. If you have a way to have it towed to my garage 23 miles west of your location on business route 30, You can borrow my garage space and keep dry. I have plenty of tools and a car lift plus 2.8 engine parts. Let me know or send me your cell #. Ironically a few years ago a Fiero sat in that very parking lot for nearly a week and it didn't move. I figured it was the help but then it disappeared.
Spoon
You are incredible - I sent you a pm with my phone #. I can't ex press how much I appreciate the offer!
------------------ "Kilgore Trout once wrote a short story which was a dialogue between two pieces of yeast. They were discussing the possible purposes of life as they ate sugar and suffocated in their own excrement. Because of their limited intelligence, they never came close to guessing that they were making champagne." - Kurt Vonnegut
Well done chaps..... having done mine recently...inside..in the warm...with plenty of tools and cake ... and harmonic balancer already removed, I am full of admiration!!
Yes he made it with no problems around noon yesterday.
Spoon
------------------ "Kilgore Trout once wrote a short story which was a dialogue between two pieces of yeast. They were discussing the possible purposes of life as they ate sugar and suffocated in their own excrement. Because of their limited intelligence, they never came close to guessing that they were making champagne." - Kurt Vonnegut
[This message has been edited by Spoon (edited 10-22-2019).]
Hey y'all! Thought I posted an update early monday morning at a gas station along the drive, but i guess it didn't make it through on the shoddy cell signal.
I have to give an absolutely massive shout out to Spoon for lending his time, equipment, and expertise to the repair! We towed my poor car over to his incredible workspace (where I got to see his beautiful 3800 swap as well - WOW). You are one of the most generous people I have ever met, and I hope to see you again soon at Carlisle next year!!
In the end, the failure point was in fact the water pump - and the "catastrophic" word ended up being more true than expected! Spoon and I took videos of the amount of play in the bearing before removal and once the pump was out of the car (https://photos.app.goo.gl/HaqBTZgdvMWTqSGu9) - the thing was destroyed! I'm going to be pressing the old pump out this weekend, and will post some photos of the bearing / whatever else failed in there.
After about 7 hours of work, we got the new pump in, checked the rest of the car for leaks, and I was able to get back on the road - made it to work right on time!
) 
