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3800sc new swap only starts with starting fluid by Riddick85
Started on: 10-03-2019 02:03 PM
Replies: 12 (201 views)
Last post by: olejoedad on 10-12-2019 01:55 PM
Riddick85
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Report this Post10-03-2019 02:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Riddick85Send a Private Message to Riddick85Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

So me and my dad are working on our second 3800sc swap. First one went fine with no issues but his car will only start with starting fluid. Getting spark but it seems we are not getting injector pulses while cranking. Once it kicks with the starting fluid, the fuel injectors take over and all is well and runs like a champ. I have tried researching if maybe the ECM gets a different signal to fire the injectors during crank but I cannot find anything.
Everything else seems to work flawlessly and we are hoping to get some miles on it before the weather turns cold. Please Help!

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Gall757
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Report this Post10-03-2019 03:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

You need some advice from Darth Fiero, but until he finds your question, here is a thread that covers potential issues.

http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/127980.html

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Dennis LaGrua
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Report this Post10-03-2019 04:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaClick Here to Email Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Unless you try to diagnose your problem with a quality scanner or scanning software, you are working in the blind. No fuel at the injectors can mean any one of a dozen or more things could be wrong..

------------------
" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
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" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

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Riddick85
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Report this Post10-08-2019 04:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Riddick85Send a Private Message to Riddick85Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Did a little work on the he car. I used an app on my phone with one of those bluetooth obd2 scanners, not the best but it gives me data. Seems like everything is working the way it should once we get it running but it still doesn't get any injector pulse while cranking. Also, there are no codes when I checked.

Another thing I tried since I have my working 3800 fiero to try to diagnose my dads is we swapped my ICM into his car and there is no change and also put my PCM into his car and there is no change. Tried putting his into my working car too and mine starts and runs fine. So doesnt seem there is a ICM or PCM that is bad.

It actually seems to work really well once its started with starting fluid. Gets up to 185 or so and coolant fan kicks on, car moves around the driveway fine.

Biggest question is what controls the injectors only during cranking though?

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OntarioKev
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Report this Post10-08-2019 09:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for OntarioKevSend a Private Message to OntarioKevEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Have you used a light on the injector circuit to diagnose that the injectors aren't firing?

Checked fuel pressure during key on before start, and during cranking?

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Riddick85
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Report this Post10-08-2019 10:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Riddick85Send a Private Message to Riddick85Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I dont have a light but I did have a spare fuel injector that I plugged in to the harness when cranking. I did put 12v to it before to make sure it worked. It did nothing plugged into harness. I also checked ohms across each injector and all were right around 12. Fuel pressure is 40 key on not running and there is no leak down. It is also around 40 when running.

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OntarioKev
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Report this Post10-09-2019 10:51 AM Click Here to See the Profile for OntarioKevSend a Private Message to OntarioKevEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I am assuming you would be able to tell if the spare injector was firing during crank, so another thought has VATS been disabled on the PCM you are using?

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Riddick85
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Report this Post10-09-2019 01:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Riddick85Send a Private Message to Riddick85Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I read about VATS being a problem that could cause something like this. That's the biggest reason I put the PCM from my running swap into my dads car. Same no start with a known correct PCM. Just for good measure I put his in my car and it started and ran fine also.

Only difference between the 2 cars is my is manual and his is auto using the 4t65 that came with the engine.

[This message has been edited by Riddick85 (edited 10-09-2019).]

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OntarioKev
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Report this Post10-09-2019 07:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for OntarioKevSend a Private Message to OntarioKevEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Ok that helps rule out VATS. There are several codes that need to be disables for it to run well on the manual but none of them should prevent startup.

How did you test with the spare injector to know it was firing when cranking?

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olejoedad
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Report this Post10-09-2019 08:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadClick Here to Email olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Have you had the PCM set up for the swap?

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Riddick85
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Report this Post10-10-2019 02:58 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Riddick85Send a Private Message to Riddick85Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I should be able to hear it when cranking and also feel it click but it does not do it when cranking. I know it's kind of a crappy way to test it and I should just do it with a bulb.

Yes the PCM was setup for the fiero swap

[This message has been edited by Riddick85 (edited 10-10-2019).]

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Buck531
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Report this Post10-11-2019 10:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Buck531Click Here to Email Buck531Send a Private Message to Buck531Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Try getting a 98 GTP PCM from a junkyard and see if it'll fire. From what I've tried (and read) its pretty difficult to disable vats on a 3800 PCM.

Or find someone near you who can reflash your current pcm to a 98 GTP.

------------------
03 Buick Regal. 13.0x @103
87 Fiero GT. L67, XP, Ported heads, SD headers, FSIC, 2.8 pulley. 12.018@113 1.7 60'.

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olejoedad
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Report this Post10-12-2019 01:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadClick Here to Email olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

What is the 5volt reference voltage reading at key on?

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