Click here to visit The FieroStore | View all sponsors
  Pennock's Fiero Forum
  Technical Discussion & Questions
  88 rear struts

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Email This Page to Someone! | Printable Version


next newest topic | next oldest topic
88 rear struts by mcguiver3
Started on: 09-02-2019 02:56 PM
Replies: 23 (567 views)
Last post by: msweldon on 10-07-2019 11:02 PM
mcguiver3
Member

Posts: 735
From: Beacon Falls, CT, USA
Registered: Jan 2012


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post09-02-2019 02:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mcguiver3Send a Private Message to mcguiver3Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I know the Koni rear struts are no longer available for the 88 or earlier cars but is there an alternative to them?
I have mine as coil-overs and would like to know if there are any other applications that Koni does make that could be adapted?

IP: Logged

qwikgta
Member

Posts: 4357
From: Virginia Beach, VA
Registered: Jan 2001


Feedback score:    (21)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 83
Rate this member

Report this Post09-07-2019 01:03 AM Click Here to See the Profile for qwikgtaClick Here to Email qwikgtaSend a Private Message to qwikgtaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

You can still get Koni rear struts. Check out west coast fieros, or FieroGuru.

IP: Logged

mcguiver3
Member

Posts: 735
From: Beacon Falls, CT, USA
Registered: Jan 2012


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post09-07-2019 10:09 AM Click Here to See the Profile for mcguiver3Send a Private Message to mcguiver3Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

WCF site said they are not available and Fieroguru's site doesn't list them at all

IP: Logged

fieroguru
Member

Posts: 10928
From: Champaign, IL
Registered: Aug 2003


Feedback score:    (44)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 255
Rate this member

Report this Post09-07-2019 12:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by mcguiver3:

WCF site said they are not available and Fieroguru's site doesn't list them at all


They are discontinued...

I have correspondence from the Product Manager at Koni US over the Fiero product line. They were discontinued last year due to the stamping supplier for the strut/knuckle attachment bracket going bankrupt. They haven't found an economical supplier for that part in Europe at the volumes the Fiero product needs. The Fiero was the only application they supported that used that specific attachment bracket.

A lot of places still list them, but if you ask if they are in stock or if they can order them, they will come back with nothing. I have contacted pretty much every vendor or distributor that Koni sold to in the last year of production... every one of them is out of stock.

[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 09-07-2019).]

IP: Logged

cvxjet
Member

Posts: 1577
From: ca, usa
Registered: May 2010


Feedback score: (1)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post09-07-2019 04:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cvxjetClick Here to Email cvxjetSend a Private Message to cvxjetEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I have a somewhat Crazy idea; Bilstein makes some very good strut >>INSERTS<< that you can easily set up for the Fiero in whatever tuning you need- but the problem is fitting an insert to a Fiero Knuckle.

Could someone make an Insert holder/adapter for the Fiero which would allow us to have the better Monotube shocks? I know a guy had posted a how-to of cutting an old strut apart and welding/modifying it to be an insert adapter- but it seems someone could make a good one and then sell it- I would really enjoy having the modern "Good ride AND good handling" that newer shocks give you....

Just a crazy idea......

IP: Logged

wftb
Member

Posts: 3295
From: kincardine,ontario,canada
Registered: Jun 2005


Feedback score: (4)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post09-07-2019 06:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for wftbClick Here to Email wftbSend a Private Message to wftbEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

http://www.ns355.ca/struts.html

Former member here used QA1 struts, did a search on QA1 for part HS606S-1235 no results found. Another dead end.

On my 91 civic wagon I bought D2 racing coilovers and they work well, could use lighter springs but I am happy with them and the price for a set of 4 was around 800.00. The reason I mention these is the way the bottom mount threads in to the tube for initial ride height adjustment. An adapter could be made to take advantage of this feature so they could bolt up to a Fiero spindle. The spring adjustment is further up the shock on its own threaded perch. The ones I have are not really struts but a multitude of different companies make struts like this.

QA1 does make actual struts for Camaros and Mustangs but they are around 1000.00 plus for double adjustable including springs. Too much money for me considering the amount of modifying they would need to work.

------------------
86 GT built 2.2 ecotec turbo
rear SLA suspension
QA1 coilovers on tube arms

IP: Logged

Notorio
Member

Posts: 1860
From: Temecula, CA
Registered: Oct 2003


Feedback score: (3)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post09-14-2019 01:04 AM Click Here to See the Profile for NotorioSend a Private Message to NotorioEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

The Fiero Store has the KYB struts, that I plan to get later this year (I hope).

IP: Logged

qwikgta
Member

Posts: 4357
From: Virginia Beach, VA
Registered: Jan 2001


Feedback score:    (21)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 83
Rate this member

Report this Post09-14-2019 07:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for qwikgtaClick Here to Email qwikgtaSend a Private Message to qwikgtaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I spend lot of time walking my local pick and pull. I see stuff all the time that would be great on a Fiero. I don't have the time and skill, but someone could make a lot of money if they could figure out how to take the new GM suspension, brakes, steering, control arms, struts ect... and make them work on our cars. I daily drive a 18 year old car w/ 200K miles on it and it still drives better than my 75K 88 Fiero. Getting a larger rotor to fit our cars is one thing, but getting control arms, steering, struts/shock to fit would be awesome. I'd love to have new bearings w/ the 5x115 bolt pattern.

New GM spindles for FWD cars are aluminum, the cradles are aluminum and they already have 1" thick, vented rotors. I have an 88 so those "old style" spindles would not work for me, but if I had a 84-87 car i''d have purchased a few of them and test fit them. I know this may sound ignorant, but it cant be that difficult to make that stuff fit the rear of a 84-87 car.

OK, im off my soap box.

Rob

IP: Logged

wftb
Member

Posts: 3295
From: kincardine,ontario,canada
Registered: Jun 2005


Feedback score: (4)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post09-15-2019 09:11 AM Click Here to See the Profile for wftbClick Here to Email wftbSend a Private Message to wftbEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

GM, Ford and Honda all make a spindle that has an extra pivot point at the top that allows the strut to not have anything to do with the steering of a front wheel drive car. This feature allows a scrub radius of almost 0, all but eliminating torque steer from high powered front wheel drive cars. None available in the pick and pull near me, I keep checking their car list and no luck so far. A spindle like that would make a big improvement for the rear suspension on my car .

------------------
86 GT built 2.2 ecotec turbo
rear SLA suspension
QA1 coilovers on tube arms

IP: Logged

fieroguru
Member

Posts: 10928
From: Champaign, IL
Registered: Aug 2003


Feedback score:    (44)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 255
Rate this member

Report this Post09-15-2019 10:49 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Rob, I can assure you that there are people out there working on finding a workable combination of later model aluminum suspension parts. This setup will likely replace the front suspension components on my 88 (custom fab work for the crossmember required - or just build a tubular setup). Its primary purpose is to allow AWD, but I also like the idea of all the components being aluminum, the knuckle will allow larger stock wheel bearings in multiple bolt patterns, as well as increase available brake rotor and caliper options.


The aluminum W-body uprights as well as a modified aluminum rear cradle have already been used (Mwhite's LS4/F40 buid). But it has its own share of challenges...


I am always looking for methods to get the best compromise with handling and ride quality since I daily drive my modified Fiero 9 months of the year and put about 8,000 to 10,000 miles on it annually. I recently started to pay more attention to which end of the car has the more significant impact loads and on my car, it is definitely the front.

Which brings me to why is that the case. The front is lighter, has narrower tires with more sidewall, lower spring rate, etc... than the rear. The big difference is the front has poly bushings and the rear has rod end lateral links (which don't contribute to road harshness) and rubber bushings in the trailing link.

I am beginning to think that many of us are approaching this issue wrong. The use of poly bushings to reduce suspension deflection predates the extreme low profile tires and super stiff side walls that are not very common. So when poly was first introduced, the added stiffness potential increase or ride harshness was largely absorbed by the taller and more flexible tires. Now you can buy tires that will significantly tighten up suspension response and handling... is switching to poly bushings really worth it anymore?

All the new cars that we rave about ride quality and performance, none are running poly bushings from the factory... Once of these days, I think I will swap back to rubber bushings in the lower control arm and see what happens.

[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 09-15-2019).]

IP: Logged

qwikgta
Member

Posts: 4357
From: Virginia Beach, VA
Registered: Jan 2001


Feedback score:    (21)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 83
Rate this member

Report this Post09-15-2019 07:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for qwikgtaClick Here to Email qwikgtaSend a Private Message to qwikgtaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Paul, I know you are, as a matter of fact, I was looking at that post before I went on my rant. I always watch what your working on.

IP: Logged

wftb
Member

Posts: 3295
From: kincardine,ontario,canada
Registered: Jun 2005


Feedback score: (4)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post09-16-2019 10:45 AM Click Here to See the Profile for wftbClick Here to Email wftbSend a Private Message to wftbEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

On the front lower controls arms of 84-87, I really think poly is a step backwards from OEM rubber bushings. There is so much binding going on that the poly gets sloppy in a hurry. I was really surprised to see how bad they had gotten over the years. When I replaced the OEM rubber they were 16 years old and still in good shape.

It is too bad the harder rubber that was used on the IMSA cars (the GTU class?) is not available.

I have a combination of Del-A-Lum bushings on front upper control arms and rear lower control arms. On the front lower control arms I have Febest (Polish made copies of Lemforders) bushings. The upper rear arms have poly and as soon as they wear out I will probably put Febest in them too. They allow up and down movement without the binding caused by the non alligned pivot points. None of these options will fit a stock control arm without a lot of work and fabbing.

I am watching Trinton's build in the construction zone to see how his customrear cradle with Corvette suspension works out.But it is hard to say how long that will take.

[This message has been edited by wftb (edited 09-16-2019).]

IP: Logged

Will
Member

Posts: 12914
From: Where you least expect me
Registered: Jun 2000


Feedback score: (1)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 234
Rate this member

Report this Post09-16-2019 11:33 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Steven Snyder and I have independently done some of the design work for Bilstein inverted struts. The engineering is not that difficult. However, selling them into the same market as Koni would require significant liability insurance, which will be a significant cost factor when amortized over a small product line.

Adapting something newer is probably going to be more trouble than it's worth. Component replacements are readily available. Coleman racing makes custom spindles and is set up for something closer to the volume that the Fiero market needs than any larger manufacturer. I'm working on a rear knuckle design to adapt either Mitsu EVO VII or C6 Corvette parking brakes with C7 Corvette hub (or any large pattern GM hub for aluminum knuckles).

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 09-16-2019).]

IP: Logged

pmbrunelle
Member

Posts: 3017
From: Grand-Mère, Québec
Registered: Sep 2008


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 55
Rate this member

Report this Post09-16-2019 12:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for pmbrunelleClick Here to Email pmbrunelleSend a Private Message to pmbrunelleEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Will:

Steven Snyder and I have independently done some of the design work for Bilstein inverted struts. The engineering is not that difficult. However, selling them into the same market as Koni would require significant liability insurance, which will be a significant cost factor when amortized over a small product line.


Kind of weird how that works out; the liability insurance should in theory cost less if the number of units sold is small.

My dad actually took a home inspection course, and considered doing home inspections as a sideline. However, he found out that the liability insurance premiums were pretty much fixed for one person. So whether you inspect homes 5 days a week as your full-time job, or just once or twice a month, you pay the same premium. So home inspection didn't work out as a side gig.

Would-be homeowners don't seem to want a list of house defects; they want a scapegoat they can sue.

IP: Logged

Will
Member

Posts: 12914
From: Where you least expect me
Registered: Jun 2000


Feedback score: (1)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 234
Rate this member

Report this Post09-17-2019 11:57 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by pmbrunelle:


Kind of weird how that works out; the liability insurance should in theory cost less if the number of units sold is small.

My dad actually took a home inspection course, and considered doing home inspections as a sideline. However, he found out that the liability insurance premiums were pretty much fixed for one person. So whether you inspect homes 5 days a week as your full-time job, or just once or twice a month, you pay the same premium. So home inspection didn't work out as a side gig.

Would-be homeowners don't seem to want a list of house defects; they want a scapegoat they can sue.


Well... Yeah, insurance drives a lot of things, and the *right* insurance can be a key enabler when other paths are blocked.

Because struts and brakes are such safety-critical items, and will be installed by someone the designer/fabricator of the parts never met, whose individual skills are uncertain and group skills are all over the map, having a business entity and the appropriate insurance would be prudent for the seller.

IP: Logged

Larry Nakamura
Member

Posts: 405
From: Clearlake, California, USA
Registered: Jul 2003


Feedback score: (2)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post09-17-2019 09:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Larry NakamuraClick Here to Email Larry NakamuraSend a Private Message to Larry NakamuraEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I have Koni struts on the rear of my 88GT. I have had them since 1991 or
so. I also have Koni shocks on the front of my car. The attraction to purchase
them was first they are Koni (supposed to have a good reputation), they are
adjustable, cost at the time was not huge, and they have a lifetime guarantee.

I guess the last item is no longer true since they no longer make them. Oh
well it goes to show that there probably isn't anything that is actually LIFETIME.

IP: Logged

Will
Member

Posts: 12914
From: Where you least expect me
Registered: Jun 2000


Feedback score: (1)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 234
Rate this member

Report this Post09-18-2019 08:22 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

The Koni Custom Shop can rebuild and revalve them.

IP: Logged

Iain
Member

Posts: 111
From: Out of my Tree, Perth, Scotland
Registered: Apr 2004


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post09-20-2019 05:01 AM Click Here to See the Profile for IainSend a Private Message to IainEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by cvxjet:

I have a somewhat Crazy idea; Bilstein makes some very good strut >>INSERTS<< that you can easily set up for the Fiero in whatever tuning you need- but the problem is fitting an insert to a Fiero Knuckle.

Could someone make an Insert holder/adapter for the Fiero which would allow us to have the better Monotube shocks? I know a guy had posted a how-to of cutting an old strut apart and welding/modifying it to be an insert adapter- but it seems someone could make a good one and then sell it- I would really enjoy having the modern "Good ride AND good handling" that newer shocks give you....

Just a crazy idea......


That was me.
I've just been emailed direct about it as apparently the images no longer work.
It is almost ridiculously easy, just needs a grinder and the ability to weld (or farm that out for beer).
I don't have time to fix the thread at the moment I'm ridiculously busy with other things, but all the images are here:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/jfsd23NTVr7Vjy5SA

IP: Logged

msweldon
Member

Posts: 547
From: Georgia
Registered: Sep 2000


Feedback score: (1)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post10-05-2019 05:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for msweldonClick Here to Email msweldonSend a Private Message to msweldonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Anyone considered cannibalizing the stock worn rear strut housing and going with a Koni 8611 strut insert? Haven't done any measurements yet with the stock rear strut to see if any 8611's are a fit without internal spacers etc....if this works it makes me cringe at all the stock fiero strut housings I've S-canned over the years..

See:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXSnNZt3NiI

Although I went with Bilstein HDs on my restored Mazda 6s, many 6 owners go with these strut inserts as there is no Koni option for their McPherson struts...

When I spoke to TrueChoiceKoniRacingServices.com they stated to convert my koni rears to double adjustable the most economical way would be to use these inserts in the koni strut housing... otherwise you're looking at about 550$ plus parts to revalve and add a jounce/bound adjustment.

Still might do this myself instead of just having the Koni Red Fiero struts revalved.

[This message has been edited by msweldon (edited 10-05-2019).]

IP: Logged

qwikgta
Member

Posts: 4357
From: Virginia Beach, VA
Registered: Jan 2001


Feedback score:    (21)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 83
Rate this member

Report this Post10-05-2019 06:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for qwikgtaClick Here to Email qwikgtaSend a Private Message to qwikgtaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by msweldon:

Anyone considered cannibalizing the stock worn rear strut housing and going with a Koni 8611 strut insert? Haven't done any measurements yet with the stock rear strut to see if any 8611's are a fit without internal spacers etc....if this works it makes me cringe at all the stock fiero strut housings I've S-canned over the years..

See:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXSnNZt3NiI




What freakin' great idea. We need to really check this option out.

Rob

IP: Logged

sourmash
Member

Posts: 326
From:
Registered: Jul 2016


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post10-06-2019 08:36 AM Click Here to See the Profile for sourmashClick Here to Email sourmashSend a Private Message to sourmashEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Larry Nakamura:

I guess the last item is no longer true since they no longer make them. Oh
well it goes to show that there probably isn't anything that is actually LIFETIME.


Hey, if you want me to take a dump in a box and mark it guaranteed, I will. I got spare time.

IP: Logged

mcguiver3
Member

Posts: 735
From: Beacon Falls, CT, USA
Registered: Jan 2012


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post10-06-2019 11:19 AM Click Here to See the Profile for mcguiver3Send a Private Message to mcguiver3Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

The Koni insert looks like a great idea but which insert would be used (part #)
I already have the Koni single adjustable struts converted to coil overs now just need to know what to order for the insert.

IP: Logged

msweldon
Member

Posts: 547
From: Georgia
Registered: Sep 2000


Feedback score: (1)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post10-06-2019 12:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for msweldonClick Here to Email msweldonSend a Private Message to msweldonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by mcguiver3:

The Koni insert looks like a great idea but which insert would be used (part #)
I already have the Koni single adjustable struts converted to coil overs now just need to know what to order for the insert.


We need to know the dimensions of the stock fiero strut body, specifically the depth of the housing from the inside bottom to top, length of stroke, overall length compressed and extended.. I searched a few measurements but have seen some contradictory data but stock strut inside depth looks to be 11 7/8", koni depth is approximately 12 3/4" to 12 7/8" which opens up one more option on the 8611s.

Qwikgta I remember you obtaining some measurements of your KYB struts and they're housing being longer than the stock struts... do you remember that thread?

Did you convert your koni front 8040's with their 80.0000.1 conversion kit, if not, what did you use, if so how did you utilize the 2.25" springs it requires? Or did you use the 2.25" to 2.5" perch conversion and run conical springs. If you used conical springs with the 8040's as full to partial coil overs how did you strengthen the shock mount tabs on the LCA for the added spring pressure. Do tell as I'm looking into this myself....

[This message has been edited by msweldon (edited 10-06-2019).]

IP: Logged

msweldon
Member

Posts: 547
From: Georgia
Registered: Sep 2000


Feedback score: (1)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post10-07-2019 11:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for msweldonClick Here to Email msweldonSend a Private Message to msweldonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I have a line on a local set of old OEM rear struts to tear down and get some measurements.

Does anyone have a set of loose KYB rear struts at the moment and provide us/me with some housing dimensions to see if they differ any from the OEM struts?

-M

IP: Logged


next newest topic | next oldest topic

All times are ET (US)

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Hop to:

Contact Us | Back To Main Page

Advertizing on PFF | Fiero Parts Vendors
PFF Merchandise | Fiero Gallery | Ogre's Cave
Real-Time Chat | Fiero Related Auctions on eBay



Copyright (c) 1999, C. Pennock