This is basically for people who want to run aluminum full roller rockers from Summit 1.6 ratio. This will let you use the Firebird 2.8 valve cover gasket under the Fiero valve cover gasket. It's 1/8" thick. Made out of aluminum. I should have them installed [hopefully] within the next 2 weeks. I'll tweak the design based on any issues I encounter. They are CNC cut designed by me.
Good solution for raising the valve covers for high lift rockers, but when you raise the lift you may also need to scrap the stock intake manifold setup..
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
[This message has been edited by Dennis LaGrua (edited 07-11-2019).]
Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua: Good solution for raising the valve covers for high lift rockers, but when you raise them you may also need to scrap the stock intake manifold setup..
No, not at all. The valve covers go off at a 60 degree angle and don't hit the middle manifold.
I think he means that the stock intake manifold is too restrictive. That could cap your performance gains.
Post corrected. Thanks
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
Even if your high-RPM breathing is choked by the factory intake, full roller rockers may prevent high-RPM durability issues with stock rockers, such as scuffing of the ball and socket.
Also, the reduction in friction applies to all RPMs... so it may be a worthwhile mod regardless of how modified your 2.8 is.
Lou, how much space will there be between the valve cover and the rocker when the spacer and cork gasket is installed?
I'll already running 2 gaskets with full roller rockers and there is still clearance. This is only an additional 1/8" so I already know they will clear. These spacers are insurance for even higher-lift cams and also because the stacked gaskets with no spacer leads to oil leaks.
I will hopefully have them installed before my next race on the 20th. I need my exhaust repaired and a couple of other things so I also dropped of the spacers for installation.
As for performance gains, you can cross-drill some holes at the bottom of the middle intake to increase top-end performance as I have shown (admittedly I may have went overboard in my mod): //www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/142715.html
[This message has been edited by lou_dias (edited 07-12-2019).]
Valve cover spacers went in without issue. Concerns of clearance have been greatly exaggerated. I'll post a video and/or pictures on Saturday when I'm prepping for the race that afternoon.
2 for the bottom and top each? No. That's just ridiculous. You have 2 heads and 2 valve covers so a "set" has 2 gaskets. And you need 2 sets total. 1 Firebird 2.8 set and 1 Fiero set for your whole engine.
Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua: Post corrected. Thanks
Gotcha. I posted in another thread how to gain 22 rwhp at 6000 rpm from the STOCK intake manifold. Simple cross-drill some holes in the walls between the ports of your middle intake manifold near where it meets the lower intake manifold.
I mean if you need more valve cover clearance - you're already doing a performance build to 3.4+L anyway. Though I suppose even stock 2.8 would benefit from 1.6 full roller rockers ... just not as much...
[This message has been edited by lou_dias (edited 08-01-2019).]
2 for the bottom and top each? No. That's just ridiculous. You have 2 heads and 2 valve covers so a "set" has 2 gaskets. And you need 2 sets total. 1 Firebird 2.8 set and 1 Fiero set for your whole engine.
How do you seal the top of the spacer to the valve cover then?
I need to order a set for my daily 3.4 Formula but no rush. So now is the time to get a head count. I'll try to come up with pricing. I'd like to order at least 10 sets even if I only get a count of 7 or so just to try to make them as affordable as possible. I paid roughly $240 for this set, not including the prototypes I had 3D printed. Goal is to keep it under $100 a set.
There's probably a sweet spot on pricing where a whole sheet of aluminum can be cut at once and as many as possible cut from it. Does anyone know what are the dimensions of a sheet?
FWIW, roller rockers don't really do anything for an engine compared to a properly setup and adjusted valvetrain with heavy duty studs. Engine Masters did an A/B test of several sets of rockers, and even going to a 1.6:1 rocker wasn't worth much at all(roller 1.5:1 didn't change anything). and that's on a SBC with 4 more rockers than a 60V6. I personally wouldn't go through the effort to use them unless my engine had a non adjustable valvetrain, and I needed adjustable to correct a geometry issue.
------------------ "I am not what you so glibly call to be a civilized man. I have broken with society for reasons which I alone am able to appreciate. I am therefore not subject to it's stupid laws, and I ask you to never allude to them in my presence again."
FWIW - when using a 3400 roller cam block for a 3.4 build - 1.6 roller rockers are required to get the STOCK cam lift of the roller block. Otherwise you're back to the stock .410" of the stock Fiero cam as far as peak lift goes. I also identified exactly which full roller rockers these are for because you can source STOCK 1.6 roller fulcrum-only rockers from a GEN2 3.1 if that's what someone wanted to use.
Let me re-iterate... All roller cam max lift specs are for 1.6 rockers, not 1.5 ratio. Regardless of that, other Fiero owners have shown that the H260 cam ends up with the same specs as the H272 just by using 1.6 rockers instead of 1.5 and dyno results have shown an improvement.
[This message has been edited by lou_dias (edited 08-05-2019).]
------------------ "I am not what you so glibly call to be a civilized man. I have broken with society for reasons which I alone am able to appreciate. I am therefore not subject to it's stupid laws, and I ask you to never allude to them in my presence again."
I was simply pointing out, that it is proven that roller rockers aren't really worth anything from a performance standpoint. roller fulcrum, like LSx and 3x00 rockers offer ease of assembly for OEM compared to having to adjust a ball fulcrum, you mentioned the low lift of a stock 3x00 cam with 1.5 rockers, and I showed that you can obtain a 1.6:1 rocker dirt cheap, without having to use spacers, bolt in and go, with 4 spares for well under $100.
------------------ "I am not what you so glibly call to be a civilized man. I have broken with society for reasons which I alone am able to appreciate. I am therefore not subject to it's stupid laws, and I ask you to never allude to them in my presence again."
I was simply pointing out, that it is proven that roller rockers aren't really worth anything from a performance standpoint. roller fulcrum, like LSx and 3x00 rockers offer ease of assembly for OEM compared to having to adjust a ball fulcrum, you mentioned the low lift of a stock 3x00 cam with 1.5 rockers, and I showed that you can obtain a 1.6:1 rocker dirt cheap, without having to use spacers, bolt in and go, with 4 spares for well under $100.
and I have posted that stock 1.6 roller fulcrum rockers from a gen2 3.1 can be sourced for cheaper ... so why do you keep going OFF TOPIC when I stated what this thread was SPECIFICALLY about from the beginning?
Do the 1.6 roller rockers not fit under the stock fiero valve covers? Is this what your product addresses?
Marc-Alan
yes...but specifically "FULL ROLLER ROCKERS" compared to normal ones or the roller fulcrum ones from some GEN2 aluminum head motors. They fit using the F-body gasket under the Fiero gasket but without the spacer, oil leaks will happen.
I was simply pointing out, that it is proven that roller rockers aren't really worth anything from a performance standpoint. roller fulcrum, like LSx and 3x00 rockers offer ease of assembly for OEM compared to having to adjust a ball fulcrum, you mentioned the low lift of a stock 3x00 cam with 1.5 rockers, and I showed that you can obtain a 1.6:1 rocker dirt cheap, without having to use spacers, bolt in and go, with 4 spares for well under $100.
Perhaps not perceivably when they are the same ratio; however, there's usually less friction which means less heat and somewhat more efficient, and they're typically less noisy. So, all around a better option to normal stamped rocker arms.
My set of valve cover spacers just arrived! I have to say im very impressed with the quality of these. amazing precision and finish. thanks Lou!
Took several 3D-printed prototypes before I sent the final design for CNC cutting. Had to learn how to convert an .STL file to a .STEP file as well using CAD software. Took a bit of work. I'd like to do more stuff and that's why I started a Patreon page incase the community wants to sponsor me to do even more.
Perhaps not perceivably when they are the same ratio; however, there's usually less friction which means less heat and somewhat more efficient, and they're typically less noisy. So, all around a better option to normal stamped rocker arms.
Another advantage of the Aluminum rockers is heat dissipation. Being aluminum they don't hold the heat like steel does. That is why the majority of heat sinks are made out of aluminum. So, if you are using one of Lou's aluminum spacers you are also adding and extra heat sink to take away heat from the heads up to the valve covers to be dissipated more quickly!
[This message has been edited by La fiera (edited 12-13-2019).]
I always ran roller tip rockers rather than full roller bearing versions (Comp Cams sells reasonable ones) to avoid this issue as I don't feel that having full rollers is worth the fuss, but it is nice to have an alternative.
Most will want to keep a stock looking intake in their Fieros, but I'll warn anyone that thinks of using a later F body intake which flows a bit better, that with the Fiero valve covers there is a bit of interference with the top of the covers and the bottom of the manifold. It is easily dealt with by some minor grinding on the underside of the Firebird/Camaro intake, and the Fiero valve covers sure look nicer than the stamped steel versions. The fit without grinding is so close to looking right that you might assemble and think everything is buttoned up tight until you hear the intake whistle as air sucks by the very thin aperture left when the manifold bottoms on the covers (don't ask me how I discovered this).
Yes, I had saved the post from 2019. That's when I was building a motor. We are just now getting to the point where the old motor is out and I am getting things ready for the transplant.
I reached out to see if they were still available, and they were...