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Scan Tool for 87 4cyl RECOMMENDATIONS by Chic_in_a_mask
Started on: 04-13-2019 05:34 AM
Replies: 22 (385 views)
Last post by: Chic_in_a_mask on 04-16-2019 03:29 AM
Chic_in_a_mask
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Report this Post04-13-2019 05:34 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Chic_in_a_maskSend a Private Message to Chic_in_a_maskEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Ladies and Gents! Would anyone have any recommendations on a good decently priced scan tool for my 87’ fiero? Was sad when I saw the fiero store has one but not for my type of fiero. Recommendations will be deeply appreciated.

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Report this Post04-13-2019 08:19 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RWDPLZClick Here to visit RWDPLZ's HomePageSend a Private Message to RWDPLZEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Snap-On MT-2500, they're really cheap now on ebay.
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Report this Post04-13-2019 10:38 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FXSend a Private Message to FXEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
My understanding of the OBD1 scan tool is that all it does is jump the two terminals in the plug, and you have to read the dash light flashes. You can do the same thing with a paper clip...Sorry if I'm misinformed, I'm sure someone will correct me...
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Patrick
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Report this Post04-13-2019 11:52 AM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by FX:

My understanding of the OBD1 scan tool is that all it does is jump the two terminals in the plug, and you have to read the dash light flashes.


There's a big difference between a scan tool and a simple code reader.

 
quote
Originally posted by RWDPLZ:

Snap-On MT-2500, they're really cheap now on ebay.


What do you consider "really cheap"? The least expensive one I could find on eBay was $75 (up to $300), and the correct cartridge (min $15) still needs to be bought.

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 04-13-2019).]

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FX
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Report this Post04-13-2019 05:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FXSend a Private Message to FXEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Patric thanks, I will look in to one of these for my 86 2.8...
PS: will it work on my 86. It would be nice to have in my shop...

[This message has been edited by FX (edited 04-13-2019).]

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Report this Post04-13-2019 05:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FXSend a Private Message to FXEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

FX

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Patrick, I have a good Actron OB2 scanner. Do you know if the adapters sold on ebay will read diagnostics, or just the code flashes?

[This message has been edited by FX (edited 04-14-2019).]

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Blacktree
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Report this Post04-13-2019 06:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BlacktreeClick Here to visit Blacktree's HomePageSend a Private Message to BlacktreeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I still have an old OTC 2000 scanner that I used to use on my '87 Duke. It has the GM cartridge. I'm not sure what shipping would be to Hawaii, but can look it up if you're interested.
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Report this Post04-13-2019 06:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by FX:

will it work on my 86


I have no experience using any standalone scan tool. I instead run WinALDL on an ancient Dell laptop connected to the car's ALDL port (using the appropriate cable). Works with my '84 duke, '86 GT and '88 Formula. Interestingly enough, it doesn't work with an '87 duke.... but a solution can be found Here using TunerPro software.

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Chic_in_a_mask
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Report this Post04-13-2019 07:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Chic_in_a_maskSend a Private Message to Chic_in_a_maskEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
A little progress report and info on my hunt for a scan tool for my 87’ 4 banger. I do have the original code reader, but need more than just codes.
This images is larger than 153600 bytes. Click to view.
A shout out to Patrick for the info he gave me on my overheating post! He sent me to a thread PHONEDAWGZ was in and because of that I found the scene tool I need. PHONEDAWGZ is also on eBay so if anyone has a problem finding a scan tool for an 87’ iron duke go there, you will not regret it!
This images is larger than 153600 bytes. Click to view.
Thank you everyone for your help and info! And an even bigger thanks to the men of the hour PATRICK and PHONEDAWGZ!!!!

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Chic_in_a_mask
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Report this Post04-13-2019 07:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Chic_in_a_maskSend a Private Message to Chic_in_a_maskEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Chic_in_a_mask

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quote
Originally posted by Blacktree:

I still have an old OTC 2000 scanner that I used to use on my '87 Duke. It has the GM cartridge. I'm not sure what shipping would be to Hawaii, but can look it up if you're interested.



Thanks Blacktree! I am grateful for your offer. Although I was able to find something that works through PHONEDAWGZ, which I recommend to others. And literally posted all the info during your post. I do appreciate your help and concern either way.

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Patrick
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Report this Post04-13-2019 07:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Chic_in_a_mask:

And an even bigger thanks to the men of the hour PATRICK and PHONEDAWGZ!!!!


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Chic_in_a_mask
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Report this Post04-13-2019 08:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Chic_in_a_maskSend a Private Message to Chic_in_a_maskEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
This images is larger than 153600 bytes. Click to view.[URL=http://s25.photobucket.com/user /DianaFlores1983/media/FC66E219-45B8-4700-A2D5-5F9D97A56357.jpeg.html]This images is larger than 153600 bytes. Click to view.[/URL]

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Blacktree
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Report this Post04-13-2019 10:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BlacktreeClick Here to visit Blacktree's HomePageSend a Private Message to BlacktreeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
No problem.
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Report this Post04-13-2019 11:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RWDPLZClick Here to visit RWDPLZ's HomePageSend a Private Message to RWDPLZEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:

What do you consider "really cheap"? The least expensive one I could find on eBay was $75 (up to $300), and the correct cartridge (min $15) still needs to be bought.



I guess 'cheap' is relative, but they usually sell in the $100ish range, and frequently come with the keys, adapter, cartridges, etc. if you don't just buy the bare unit. I bought mine years ago when they got down around $250 and it was still worth it.

Still cheaper than the chinese clone GM Tech 2's ($300+), or the current Snap-On and other modern scanners.
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Report this Post04-14-2019 12:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FXSend a Private Message to FXEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Patrick, "thank you, thank you very much". I will look into this adapter to hook to my laptop...

I just found this ALDL adapter to laptop with software on ebay for 55 bucks. Can ECM parameters be adjusted with this (eg: idle speed etc)?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/GM...6:g:KwcAAOSwiYFXGESA

[This message has been edited by FX (edited 04-14-2019).]

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Report this Post04-14-2019 02:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by FX:

Can ECM parameters be adjusted with this...


Just in case there's any confusion here... Scan tools and/or scanning software used with Fieros do not have the ability to adjust ECM parameters. They simply display in real time what the various engine sensors are reporting to the ECM.

 
quote
Originally posted by FX:

I just found this ALDL adapter to laptop with software on ebay for 55 bucks.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/GM...6:g:KwcAAOSwiYFXGESA


Yes, that's phonedawgz here at this forum.

 
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:

...a solution can be found Here using TunerPro software.

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 04-14-2019).]

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Report this Post04-14-2019 02:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FXSend a Private Message to FXEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thanks again Patrick, I think I'll get one. Will this tell me what's wrong if there is a problem?

I love this place, think I'll buy Cliff a brew, set you up too Pat if you're in the Buffalo area...
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Report this Post04-14-2019 03:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by FX:

Will this tell me what's wrong if there is a problem?


It's not like having a crystal ball but it's an invaluable diagnostic tool. Especially for the price, it's most definitely worthwhile getting.

 
quote
Originally posted by FX:

...set you up too Pat if you're in the Buffalo area


I have no plans to shuffle off to Buffalo in the near future (it's a long way from the west coast!), but thanks for the thought.
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Report this Post04-15-2019 08:27 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FXSend a Private Message to FXEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Then it's gotta be better than das blink'n lights...
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Report this Post04-15-2019 10:51 AM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Sorry...
ECM Scan Tools often Will Not tell you what's wrong but often still needed just to check several things and more so w/ 87 and up Dukes because 1227748 ECM includes Cruise logic builtin to the board.
Examples:
  • Dash gauges often are way wrong for many cars not just Fiero. ECM is more accurate for engine temp but ECT can lie too. Quick Check, When the engine is cold ECM should read ECT close to weather/garage temp where parked that day. (Side note: Most older GM cars had same Temp dash gauge but w/o numbers because numbers are often wrong.)
  • You have measured Volts at the battery etc and think Volts are same all over. You are Often way wrong. Worse, ECM sees Low Volts for iffy grounds power or both for any reason then you can have "hunting idle" problems etc. Is part of why ECM reports Volts as data to read w/ a scanner. IOW You measure 14.6 at battery w/ engine running but ECM reports "I sees 12 or lower volts" then you have problems including maybe an iffy ECM.

    But Reading Engine Timing and some other things are fairly useless even for experts because data stream is way to slow and numbers are all over the place even when that are perfect. Example: Reading O2 volts or rich/lean mix are fairly useless when the engine is warm/hot but seeing "O2 ready" flipping yes/no under same conditions is trouble most times but may not be O2 sensor itself even when ECM sets "Code 13." Many see "one wire" O2 and never bother to check O2 Ground (Tan wire for Many GM models) bolted to the block somewhere that's often have problems.

    Is not unique to OBD1 either. OBD2 scanners say Pxxxx is the problem, say 1 of several O2 sensors in new cars, means to most users = that sensor is bad but often is not and still replace it anyway and often bill Hundreds of $ because many O2 are high $ parts. Many Aftermarket O2 start at ~ $150 and go much higher. Then car is back in next few days or few weeks w/ same DTC because most ASE can't look for the real problem like a weeping intake leaking coolant into the engine and poison O2(s) and often the cat(s).

    See my Cave, Scan Tool Help and the rest of section. Then Wiring section as well.

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    Report this Post04-15-2019 02:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Mickey_MooseClick Here to visit Mickey_Moose's HomePageSend a Private Message to Mickey_MooseEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
     
    quote
    Originally posted by Patrick:

    Just in case there's any confusion here... Scan tools and/or scanning software used with Fieros do not have the ability to adjust ECM parameters. They simply display in real time what the various engine sensors are reporting to the ECM.


    This - the only way to change any parameters of the Fiero code is to use Tunercat and an EPROM burner. It cannot be done on the fly - EPROM has to be removed, erased and reprogrammed.
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    Report this Post04-15-2019 02:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FXSend a Private Message to FXEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
    All very interesting ogre, and enlightening...Thanks...
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    Chic_in_a_mask
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    Report this Post04-16-2019 03:29 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Chic_in_a_maskSend a Private Message to Chic_in_a_maskEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
     
    quote
    Originally posted by theogre:

    Sorry...
    ECM Scan Tools often Will Not tell you what's wrong but often still needed just to check several things and more so w/ 87 and up Dukes because 1227748 ECM includes Cruise logic builtin to the board.
    Examples:
  • Dash gauges often are way wrong for many cars not just Fiero. ECM is more accurate for engine temp but ECT can lie too. Quick Check, When the engine is cold ECM should read ECT close to weather/garage temp where parked that day. (Side note: Most older GM cars had same Temp dash gauge but w/o numbers because numbers are often wrong.)
  • You have measured Volts at the battery etc and think Volts are same all over. You are Often way wrong. Worse, ECM sees Low Volts for iffy grounds power or both for any reason then you can have "hunting idle" problems etc. Is part of why ECM reports Volts as data to read w/ a scanner. IOW You measure 14.6 at battery w/ engine running but ECM reports "I sees 12 or lower volts" then you have problems including maybe an iffy ECM.

    But Reading Engine Timing and some other things are fairly useless even for experts because data stream is way to slow and numbers are all over the place even when that are perfect. Example: Reading O2 volts or rich/lean mix are fairly useless when the engine is warm/hot but seeing "O2 ready" flipping yes/no under same conditions is trouble most times but may not be O2 sensor itself even when ECM sets "Code 13." Many see "one wire" O2 and never bother to check O2 Ground (Tan wire for Many GM models) bolted to the block somewhere that's often have problems.

    Is not unique to OBD1 either. OBD2 scanners say Pxxxx is the problem, say 1 of several O2 sensors in new cars, means to most users = that sensor is bad but often is not and still replace it anyway and often bill Hundreds of $ because many O2 are high $ parts. Many Aftermarket O2 start at ~ $150 and go much higher. Then car is back in next few days or few weeks w/ same DTC because most ASE can't look for the real problem like a weeping intake leaking coolant into the engine and poison O2(s) and often the cat(s).

    See my Cave, Scan Tool Help and the rest of section. Then Wiring section as well.



  • The more info the better, and ever since I have found your site I have been reading everything you have on it. Thanx TheOgre! Like I told Patrick I know this topic has been over done already but I am new to this forum and have not seen any post specific to my need. I really appreciate everyone putting in their part in my post. I did find the culprit to my fan issue. I had a short from the fan to the ECM, do to the abundance of rats here in Hawaii that love living in cars that sit for too long. Everything is now running tip top! Thanx again gentlemen for all your help!

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