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Who is making EGR delete chips now? by 06GTO
Started on: 03-16-2019 08:11 AM
Replies: 10 (434 views)
Last post by: Dennis LaGrua on 05-19-2020 08:42 PM
06GTO
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Report this Post03-16-2019 08:11 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 06GTOClick Here to Email 06GTOSend a Private Message to 06GTOEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post


Anyone have any insight as to who is making EGR delete chips nowadays?

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Report this Post03-16-2019 09:57 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 06GTO:

Anyone have any insight as to who is making EGR delete chips nowadays?


Try Timm.

http://www.reddevilriver.com/
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Dennis LaGrua
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Report this Post03-16-2019 03:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaClick Here to Email Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I believe that you have to narrow down what you are looking for . In the model year starting in late 95 all vehicles sold went over to PCM's that used internal flash memory. To reprogram those a laptop with editing software is attached with a plug to the OBDII connector and the memory flashed w changes. Before that ECM's used eprom memory where the chip can be removed and externally reprogrammed. In both cases the EGR function should be able be deleted.
You need to specify your car model, engine and year before moving forward.

------------------
" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
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06GTO
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Report this Post03-16-2019 06:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 06GTOClick Here to Email 06GTOSend a Private Message to 06GTOEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote



Try Timm.

http://www.reddevilriver.com/



Thanks. I'll try to get a hold of Timm.

Any other options? Just exploring the options.

[This message has been edited by 06GTO (edited 03-16-2019).]

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olejoedad
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Report this Post03-16-2019 09:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadClick Here to Email olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Why do you want to delete the EGR?
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Dennis LaGrua
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Report this Post05-15-2020 06:12 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaClick Here to Email Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Here is the technical answer to deleting the EGR system. You will need a prom editor like Tunercat, a 2732 eprom and eprom programmer, (an eraser is option) ,. You will read the chip with the programmer and put the program values/tables in the editing program on your laptop. Now you can go to the fueling table to adjust. You adjust and save the changes then use the programmer to burn the new prom chip.
Since the deletion of the EGR function will cause combustion temperatures to rise the engine will need to run slightly richer. This can be solved by going to the VE table that shows MAP vs RPM values. The VE values all the way up the RPM scale need to be bumped up by about 5% ( multiplied by 1.05) . The engine will now run slightly richer and cooler guarding against a possible burnt valve or piston ring. This can be illegal for street use but that's how it can be done.

------------------
" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

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Raydar
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Report this Post05-17-2020 05:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The Fiero EPROM has two sets of spark and fueling tables. One for "EGR ON" and one for "EGR OFF".
The easiest way is to copy the data from the EGR OFF table into the EGR ON table.
Then disable diagnostic for CODE 32, and set the EGR ON temp to 200C (or whatever the max temp is.)

Going by memory, but I think that's what I did.

(In reality, you really don't even need to copy the tables, but it only takes a couple of minutes, if you're already in there.)

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 05-17-2020).]

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Dennis LaGrua
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Report this Post05-18-2020 08:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaClick Here to Email Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Raydar:

The Fiero EPROM has two sets of spark and fueling tables. One for "EGR ON" and one for "EGR OFF".
The easiest way is to copy the data from the EGR OFF table into the EGR ON table.
Then disable diagnostic for CODE 32, and set the EGR ON temp to 200C (or whatever the max temp is.)

Going by memory, but I think that's what I did.

(In reality, you really don't even need to copy the tables, but it only takes a couple of minutes, if you're already in there.)



Not to dispute what you say but the PCM or ECM that you are you are using determines what needs to be done to the program. The full list of what I did (also from memory) to disable the EGR function on the 4.9L program.
Multiplied the MAP vs RPM VE table values by 1.05 (+ 5% on fueling)
On MAP vs RPM Advance Timing tables Copied EGR On table (more timing) to EGR Off table - Consistent timing throughout.
Raised the EGR enable vs engine RPM to 5500 RPM
Lowered the EGR disable value to 600RPM
Added 180* stat
Made sure that 93 Octane gas is always in the tank

------------------
" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

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lou_dias
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Report this Post05-19-2020 10:44 AM Click Here to See the Profile for lou_diasClick Here to Email lou_diasSend a Private Message to lou_diasEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I only have the 512k chips. I heard that by changing the setting on the MOATES Burn2 software, I can burn a 256k rom onto a 512k chip. Does anyone know what that is? I want to reflash both my Formulas with EGR delete as I'm running the Fiero Store cross-over pipe (to improve flow since it doesn't have the D-crimp restriction) with a plug in the EGR valve socket/adapter.
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Report this Post05-19-2020 07:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua:


Not to dispute what you say but the PCM or ECM that you are you are using determines what needs to be done to the program. The full list of what I did (also from memory) to disable the EGR function on the 4.9L program.
Multiplied the MAP vs RPM VE table values by 1.05 (+ 5% on fueling)
On MAP vs RPM Advance Timing tables Copied EGR On table (more timing) to EGR Off table - Consistent timing throughout.
Raised the EGR enable vs engine RPM to 5500 RPM
Lowered the EGR disable value to 600RPM
Added 180* stat
Made sure that 93 Octane gas is always in the tank




What I posted was only applicable to the 2.8 ECM.

With that said...
For the 4.9, I can agree with everything here, except for copying the EGR ON timing values to the EGR OFF tables. Having that amount of advance without the introduction of EGR (inert) gases will tend to make the engine ping.
I see that you recommend 93 octane, but the 4.9 wants 93, anyway. I would be inclined to do the reverse of what you recommended. Copy the EGR OFF values to the EGR ON tables. (Or just leave the EGR ON tables alone, since the chance of them being invoked are very remote anyway, considering the other parameters.)

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Dennis LaGrua
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Report this Post05-19-2020 08:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaClick Here to Email Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Raydar:


What I posted was only applicable to the 2.8 ECM.

With that said...
For the 4.9, I can agree with everything here, except for copying the EGR ON timing values to the EGR OFF tables. Having that amount of advance without the introduction of EGR (inert) gases will tend to make the engine ping.
I see that you recommend 93 octane, but the 4.9 wants 93, anyway. I would be inclined to do the reverse of what you recommended. Copy the EGR OFF values to the EGR ON tables. (Or just leave the EGR ON tables alone, since the chance of them being invoked are very remote anyway, considering the other parameters.)


Its certainly true that you can run more spark advance with EGR. Yes the EGR On timing is aggressive. The answer might be to try and compensate for the additional timing and lack of EGR by running a richer mixture. By increasing the values in the MAP vs RPM VE table by 5%, we may be safe but we will never know until we try. Perhaps an average of both EGR On and EGR OFF values may be a better starting point or we could just bump up the timing by a small percentage. A while back Superchips made a performance chip that reportedly made 225HP and 300ft lbs torque by using more timing and fueling but I don't have access to that chip. There is not much out there on Cadillac 4.9L performance tuning. Not that its the answer, but the F body tuners might have a clue as to how they conquered the EGR delete..
UPDATE: After doing extensive research on the matter, I will agree that the EGR On values in the timing table are far too aggressive for an engine without EGR.
------------------
" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

[This message has been edited by Dennis LaGrua (edited 05-21-2020).]

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