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4t65e-HD with a 4.9 caddy ? by Lou6t4gto
Started on: 02-16-2019 06:45 PM
Replies: 26 (456 views)
Last post by: Will on 02-21-2019 04:20 PM
Lou6t4gto
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Report this Post02-16-2019 06:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Lou6t4gtoSend a Private Message to Lou6t4gtoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
got a car with a 99 3800Sc and 4t65e-HD )also 99 Grand prix. queston is: will the computer that is Now running both the 3800 and the trans, will it run a 4.9 caddy if reprogrammed? yea, I know, WHY? Curiosity LOL
Just want to know if it Can be done without a Stand alone computer for the trans.
thanks
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Report this Post02-16-2019 07:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Not very likely Lou.
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Lou6t4gto
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Report this Post02-16-2019 07:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Lou6t4gtoSend a Private Message to Lou6t4gtoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
so it's gotta have a 4t60 instead of the 4t65e , right ? would like to have the" Sound of a V8" without having to go down for the expense of adapter/mounts and all the other stuff for a chevy. I love the 3800SC, but the "sound" of a 6 just doesn't cut it. LOL
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Report this Post02-16-2019 09:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cmechmannSend a Private Message to cmechmannEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If I'm not mistaken, The 99 3800SC PCM only has 3 (need 4) pairs of injector outputs and the HT series caddi engines don't have places for cam/crank sensors that would work with it. Even if you could reprogram it.
But
If you are really considering V8, LS4.
There are ways to disable the DOD(lifter/cam mod)https://www.onallcylinders.com/2017/11/30/how-to-delete-or-disable-active-fuel-management-afm-on-gm-engines/ and AFM and use an older LS series truck PCM that works with a 4L65e. With some modding to the transmission internal wiring, be made to work.

[This message has been edited by cmechmann (edited 02-16-2019).]

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olejoedad
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Report this Post02-17-2019 12:17 AM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The 4T60E is a great transaxle.
Go for 35/35 sprockets and 3.33 differential.

Great matchup with the 4.9's torque.

4.9's ECM for control.

[This message has been edited by olejoedad (edited 02-17-2019).]

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Lou6t4gto
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Report this Post02-17-2019 07:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Lou6t4gtoSend a Private Message to Lou6t4gtoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
just looked up the "Specs" on both engines. they BOTH seem to have the Same "Torque ratings" 275-280 ft/lbs at about 3100rpm. and the 4.9 runs out of steam at about 4500 rpm. All I was" looking for" was more "seat of the pants" bottom end and the Sound of a V8, but it doesn't look like I'd really be Gaining anything with a 4.9, and I don't want tp spend $1000 just for Adapters for a SBC. I probably Would go SBC if I could find the engine/trans adapter for a decent price. (I sold a complete setup plate and all the brackets for 250 about a years ago), now that I'd like one, I'm sure they're solid gold. LOL
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Raydar
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Report this Post02-17-2019 08:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Lou... you can probably find a complete 4.9 donor car for under a grand. Especially in FL, with all the retirees.
I would be surprised if you couldn't find a buyer for your 3800SC drivetrain.

With that said, the Caddy tranny doesn't do anything (upshift, downshift, etc.) quickly. It ultimately why I traded mine out for a 5 speed.

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olejoedad
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Report this Post02-17-2019 08:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The bottom end torque of a 4.9 starts just as soon as you step on the gas. At 1700 rpm it's already at 225 pound feet.
SBC Chevy is heavy with the cast iron block, the 4.9 is aluminum.
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Raydar
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Report this Post02-17-2019 08:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by olejoedad:

The bottom end torque of a 4.9 starts just as soon as you step on the gas. At 1700 rpm it's already at 225 pound feet.
SBC Chevy is heavy with the cast iron block, the 4.9 is aluminum.


If I were going to do a Chevy V8, it would absolutely be an LS of some sort. Probably an LS4.
I'm the last to "dog out" someone's choice for a swap, but there are so many better options.

Of course, YMMV.
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Lou6t4gto
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Report this Post02-18-2019 12:15 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Lou6t4gtoSend a Private Message to Lou6t4gtoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
yea , 4.9 wasn't my First Choice, but it's a Cheap one. I've got 2 3800SC cars. But I "grew up" in the mid 60s, corvettes, 409 chevies, hemi's,... I Miss the rumpity rump cams and "stump pulling torque". (once had a 65 cutlass with a 500 Caddy in it). to me a Stroked SBC in a Fiero would just about fill the bill. LOL
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Report this Post02-18-2019 11:49 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Lou6t4gto:
...
To me a Stroked SBC in a Fiero would just about fill the bill. LOL


If I was determined to do a SBC, I would source the parts and build a 302. Something that didn't have quite as much "Getrag-shattering torque", but could wind up to 6K or so.
That would have to sound amazing.

But then, I have a 4.9 bolted to a Getrag.

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 02-18-2019).]

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Report this Post02-18-2019 11:53 AM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Cast iron V-8's have no business in a mid engine car when there are aluminum block options.

Even 3800SC cars feel tail heavy to me.

Just my opinion after driving many swapped Fieros - LS, SBC, 4.9, 3800SC.
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Darth Fiero
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Report this Post02-18-2019 01:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Darth FieroClick Here to visit Darth Fiero's HomePageSend a Private Message to Darth FieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Lou6t4gto:

got a car with a 99 3800Sc and 4t65e-HD )also 99 Grand prix. queston is: will the computer that is Now running both the 3800 and the trans, will it run a 4.9 caddy if reprogrammed?


NO.

The 3800 PCM's hardware only supports 6 cylinders (ie: 6 injector drivers), and the 3800 uses different type and pulse count crank sensors than the 4.9 uses.

Why do you think you need a 4T65-E HD trans?

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Lou6t4gto
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Report this Post02-18-2019 01:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Lou6t4gtoSend a Private Message to Lou6t4gtoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
because I Already HAVE 2 Brand New ones . LOL 4t60 is getting hard to find....gotta be automatic
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olejoedad
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Report this Post02-18-2019 02:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The transmission of choice for the 4.9 is the 4T60E.
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Lou6t4gto
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Report this Post02-18-2019 02:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Lou6t4gtoSend a Private Message to Lou6t4gtoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
4t60e's aren't falling out of the trees either, whats the last year ? 25 years ago ? LOL but then again, I suppose a 4t65e-HD would have to have a" stand alone" computer just to run IT behind a sbc ! LOL
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olejoedad
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Report this Post02-18-2019 02:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Every 4.9 has a 4T60E attached to it from the GM plant.
It is the only transmission GM used with the engine.
Get a drivetrain from a Seville, the gearing is better than the DeVille drivetrains.
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arbakken
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Report this Post02-18-2019 02:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for arbakkenSend a Private Message to arbakkenEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Best option is a standalone trans controller. Gotta pay to play, but should be sub $1000
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Lou6t4gto
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Report this Post02-18-2019 03:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Lou6t4gtoSend a Private Message to Lou6t4gtoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
so much for That ! LOL
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Will
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Report this Post02-19-2019 12:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Darth Fiero:


NO.

The 3800 PCM's hardware only supports 6 cylinders (ie: 6 injector drivers), and the 3800 uses different type and pulse count crank sensors than the 4.9 uses.

Why do you think you need a 4T65-E HD trans?



And the Caddy PCM won't run the 4T65E-HD?

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Darth Fiero
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Report this Post02-19-2019 01:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Darth FieroClick Here to visit Darth Fiero's HomePageSend a Private Message to Darth FieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:


And the Caddy PCM won't run the 4T65E-HD?


Nope. The 4T65-E uses a pressure control solenoid the 4.9 Cadillac PCM isn't capable of controlling. Also, I believe the TCC PWM solenoid control strategy in the 4T65-E trans is opposite of how it works in the 4T60-E.
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Report this Post02-19-2019 01:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Darth FieroClick Here to visit Darth Fiero's HomePageSend a Private Message to Darth FieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Lou6t4gto:

because I Already HAVE 2 Brand New ones . LOL 4t60 is getting hard to find....gotta be automatic


There are tons of cars at my local u-pull-it yard that still have 4T60-E's in them.
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Darth Fiero
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Report this Post02-19-2019 01:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Darth FieroClick Here to visit Darth Fiero's HomePageSend a Private Message to Darth FieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Darth Fiero

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quote
Originally posted by Lou6t4gto:

4t60e's aren't falling out of the trees either, whats the last year ? 25 years ago ? LOL but then again, I suppose a 4t65e-HD would have to have a" stand alone" computer just to run IT behind a sbc ! LOL


1999 was the last model year GM used the 4T60-E transmission.
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Will
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Report this Post02-21-2019 09:09 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Darth Fiero:


Nope. The 4T65-E uses a pressure control solenoid the 4.9 Cadillac PCM isn't capable of controlling. Also, I believe the TCC PWM solenoid control strategy in the 4T65-E trans is opposite of how it works in the 4T60-E.


Oh yeah, pressure control solenoid vs. vacuum modulator.

Time to come up with a 24x/58x wheel conversion for the 4.9 using EFI Connection hardware so it can run with 6T75s
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FieroWannaBe
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Report this Post02-21-2019 10:18 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroWannaBeSend a Private Message to FieroWannaBeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:


Oh yeah, pressure control solenoid vs. vacuum modulator.

Time to come up with a 24x/58x wheel conversion for the 4.9 using EFI Connection hardware so it can run with 6T75s


That’s a lot of dough to shell out for a 200hp throw away engine. I don’t think any of the head bolts are even available any more. Hopefully they could be reused.
I’m pretty sure you can purchase a micro squirt as a stand-alone TCM these days.
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olejoedad
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Report this Post02-21-2019 10:56 AM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
There is no advantage to be gained by using a 4T65 on a 4.9.
The 4T60E is a good transmission, and very strong.

The OP has two 4T65E's and want the rumble of a V-8; he was curious if the newer trans could be used easily and economically.
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Will
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Report this Post02-21-2019 04:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Just install an external 7x trigger and use the V6 ECM in batch fire, but fudge the displacement per cylinder up by 30%.

http://www.milzymotorsports...-swap-crank-trigger/
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