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Looking for that 88 Cradle by xzeion
Started on: 02-04-2019 10:09 AM
Replies: 18 (450 views)
Last post by: mrossum on 02-22-2019 11:00 AM
xzeion
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Report this Post02-04-2019 10:09 AM Click Here to See the Profile for xzeionClick Here to visit xzeion's HomePageClick Here to Email xzeionSend a Private Message to xzeionEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Hello, I am running a beautiful blue 87 GT and I am at the point where I am soon going to get started rebuilding the suspension. Before I go and spend money replacing bushings and struts on the 87 cradle, I figured I would pop on here and see if I could source and 88 cradle.

Does anyone have one for sale? Preferably one that at least comes with control arms and links though not required

------------------
87 GT in Blue
~ Drive what you love and love what you drive ~

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wftb
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Report this Post02-04-2019 10:24 AM Click Here to See the Profile for wftbClick Here to Email wftbSend a Private Message to wftbEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

There are some 88's getting parted out in the mall. Sometimes you have to go get them yourself.

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xzeion
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Report this Post02-04-2019 11:44 AM Click Here to See the Profile for xzeionClick Here to visit xzeion's HomePageClick Here to Email xzeionSend a Private Message to xzeionEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by wftb:

There are some 88's getting parted out in the mall. Sometimes you have to go get them yourself.


The mall ? I am not familiar.

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wftb
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Report this Post02-04-2019 12:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for wftbClick Here to Email wftbSend a Private Message to wftbEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

The Mall is the parts for sale section here on PFF. http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum4/HTML/077480.html

[This message has been edited by wftb (edited 02-04-2019).]

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xzeion
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Report this Post02-04-2019 12:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for xzeionClick Here to visit xzeion's HomePageClick Here to Email xzeionSend a Private Message to xzeionEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by wftb:

The Mall is the parts for sale section here on PFF. http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum4/HTML/077480.html



AH, thanks. I THOUGHT there was a section for that. could not find the link earlier. Thank you for pointing me to it.

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cvxjet
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Report this Post02-04-2019 01:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cvxjetClick Here to Email cvxjetSend a Private Message to cvxjetEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

There is also the Fiero Factory in Toney, AL......They have a bunch of Fieros- a Fiero "Dismantler" but they do it right, saving all the important parts. Online or call them at (256) 420-5391......

By the way, you do have to go to coil-overs and relocate the top of the strut in and forward.....

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xzeion
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Report this Post02-04-2019 01:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for xzeionClick Here to visit xzeion's HomePageClick Here to Email xzeionSend a Private Message to xzeionEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

OH wow, I had no idea they were still around. I have looked at them on google maps and their website and everything I was seeing made them look like they were defunct years ago. Glad to hear they are still out there! I will defiantly give them a call. Thanks.

------------------
87 GT in Blue
~ Drive what you love and love what you drive ~

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MulletproofMonk
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Report this Post02-08-2019 03:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MulletproofMonkClick Here to visit MulletproofMonk's HomePageSend a Private Message to MulletproofMonkEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by xzeion:

Hello, I am running a beautiful blue 87 GT and I am at the point where I am soon going to get started rebuilding the suspension. Before I go and spend money replacing bushings and struts on the 87 cradle, I figured I would pop on here and see if I could source and 88 cradle.

Does anyone have one for sale? Preferably one that at least comes with control arms and links though not required



I have one that I am considering selling. I have the 88 cradle, 88 brakes, coil overs, adapters to put it in a Pre-88 car and new poly bushings that need installed on it. I'm in Bellbrook, OH just south of Dayton, OH.

------------------
-Brian

My 87 GT Poly Suspension Upgrade (all pics) thread
Removing the roof panel
My HUD install thread
Modified stock air canister and base to 3.5 inch for 3800na

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Dennis LaGrua
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Report this Post02-08-2019 06:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaClick Here to Email Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I am going to go against the grain with this statement. My 87GT handles every bit as well as an 88. If there is a difference it is very very minor. The modifications to achieve this include KYB struts and shocks (they are stiffer) , a larger front Addco anti-sway bar, an added matching Addco rear sway bar and poly bushings on suspension members and on the cradle. I maintain that unless you are a profound road race enthusiast; for every day use and even for drag racing you wouldn't feel the difference in handling.

------------------
" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

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olejoedad
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Report this Post02-08-2019 07:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadClick Here to Email olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua:

I am going to go against the grain with this statement. My 87GT handles every bit as well as an 88. If there is a difference it is very very minor. The modifications to achieve this include KYB struts and shocks (they are stiffer) , a larger front Addco anti-sway bar, an added matching Addco rear sway bar and poly bushings on suspension members and on the cradle. I maintain that unless you are a profound road race enthusiast; for every day use and even for drag racing you wouldn't feel the difference in handling.



I had an 86 SE that the suspension was completely gone through similar to yours.
It was like driving a piece of Velcro on carpet.
With that said......
My 88 Formula with stock suspension handles and drives much better than the 86 under all conditions and is much easier to drive at the edge of adhesion.

There is a huge difference between the two.

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xzeion
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Report this Post02-08-2019 10:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for xzeionClick Here to visit xzeion's HomePageClick Here to Email xzeionSend a Private Message to xzeionEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Thank you for your posts on the handling topic! I would love to hear opinions on how the 87 vs 88 cradles are on high horsepower cars. Do the 87s design flaws become more apparently when you are pushing 300 wheel vs stock? Does the 88 rear end improve high speed handling? Honestly I image a good 87 cradle setup will be fantastic on stock power..... Buuuut I don't plan to stay there forever.

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wftb
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Report this Post02-09-2019 02:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for wftbClick Here to Email wftbSend a Private Message to wftbEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Putting an 88 cradle and suspension will improve the ride and the overall feel of the car. And you get the better vented brakes at the rear of the car while retaining a parking brake. If you have all the parts to do it it seems to be an easy swap. The major complaints about the 86-87 GT were the heavy steering, snap throttle oversteer, and an overall loose feeling when driven hard. They called the clutch linkage sub par(no change in that for 88). The one major surprise for me reading the C&D test from Feb 1986 is they didn't gripe about the brakes. Even though it took 200 feet to stop from 70 mph. Maybe that was good back then? .80 G on the skidpad was not bad for the time (same as that year MR-2), considering not many cars pulled better than .85 in the 80's.
Modern high performance tires in a 205 front / 245 rear sizes will get rid of snap throttle oversteer and give you pretty high G numbers too. Stock 88's had the same problem but to a lesser degree. And a different front sway bar combined with the right size rear sway bar will help too. But the car will never be as smooth as an 88.

But the 88 suspension has some minor things I don't like. I am not a fan of strut suspensions on a sports car and I do not like a semi trailing arm suspension either. There are mounts that are single shear and dependant on the strength of the bolt to prevent flexing.And if you go to Bloozberry's thread in the costruction zone you can see detailed charts about how it performs geometry wise.

In conclusion, I think the 88 cradle swap is a much better way to get an increase in ride and performance than a bumpsteer kit, all poly, solid cradle mounts and changing 1 sway bar and adding a rear sway bar on the stock 86 GT. Not the way I did it, but I love to do my own thing and not follow the crowd.

------------------
86 GT built 2.2 ecotec turbo
rear SLA suspension
QA1 coilovers on tube arms

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mrossum
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Report this Post02-12-2019 02:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mrossumClick Here to Email mrossumSend a Private Message to mrossumEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua:

I am going to go against the grain with this statement. My 87GT handles every bit as well as an 88. If there is a difference it is very very minor. The modifications to achieve this include KYB struts and shocks (they are stiffer) , a larger front Addco anti-sway bar, an added matching Addco rear sway bar and poly bushings on suspension members and on the cradle. I maintain that unless you are a profound road race enthusiast; for every day use and even for drag racing you wouldn't feel the difference in handling.



for some reason, Dennis, I feel like your every response on here is diminishing to the original poster. why can you not just either abstain, or answer the question asked? while I am sure your vast knowledge is rivaled by few, you are not the absolute authority, and we are certainly entitled to pursue any direction we wish for OUR cars.

------------------
87 coupe 4 cyl, 5 speed

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pmbrunelle
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Report this Post02-12-2019 09:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for pmbrunelleClick Here to Email pmbrunelleSend a Private Message to pmbrunelleEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Dennis shared his opinion, and his comment was in no way condescending to OP.

A forum is a place for the exchange of differing opinions; that's what discussion is.

Your post policing was not needed.

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Rickady88GT
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Report this Post02-14-2019 10:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rickady88GTClick Here to Email Rickady88GTSend a Private Message to Rickady88GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by pmbrunelle:

Dennis shared his opinion, and his comment was in no way condescending to OP.

A forum is a place for the exchange of differing opinions; that's what discussion is.

Your post policing was not needed.


I have to agree. Dennis is probably correct and I do not see an abrasive response. BUT 88's rule, just let the rest rust LOL.
but seriously, I will only own an 88, but that is just my preference. I have had an 87GT and in stock form I could tell the difference. 88 is better, in my opinion. That being said, if a person modified an 87 correctly it could out perform a stock 88. But modify them both and compare....who knows, I guess it is not worth dividing over, just have fun.

For the record, the best modification I ever did to the suspension was to add fast ratio power steering.

There are so many ways to modify the front and rear suspension of all Fieros, but the bottom line is "what is the goal of the modification?" Drag racing, street racing, cruising with a lower stance, wider?? The modification needs to meet the need or it will not perform to expectations.

[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 02-14-2019).]

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Will
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Report this Post02-15-2019 09:51 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

There are plusses and minuses to both.

REAR suspension only

'84-'87:
Con:
-Bad geometry all around: Pro-squat, bump steer, less aggressive camber curve than '88's have.
-Big gooey bushings at both the control arms and the cradle
-Weak stock wheel bearings
-Weak stock outer CVs
-No stock rear sway bar
-Terrible brakes

Pro:
-Can swap in A-body or U-body knuckles for 27 or 33 spline 5x115 wheel bearings + larger brakes
-Probably can accommodate C6 Corvette ZO6 33 spline wheel bearings with minimal machining on said knuckles
-Most Fiero brake upgrades are designed for '84-'87 suspension

1988:
Con:
-Weak stock wheel bearings
-More difficult upgrade path for wheel bearings requiring more machining
-No easy upgrade path for stock outer CVs
-Outer lateral link pivot in knuckle can become damaged or worn

Pro:
-Better geometry: Good anti-squat, minimal bump steer, more aggressive camber curve
-Easy to improve geometry: raising rear roll center is not hard and has huge positive impact on handling
-Easy to install rod ends in the lateral links
-FACTORY sway bar on V6 cars

SAME:
-Both adjustable for camber and toe
-Same range of static camber adjustment available for both
-Same Koni struts fit both

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mrossum
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Report this Post02-19-2019 02:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mrossumClick Here to Email mrossumSend a Private Message to mrossumEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by pmbrunelle:

Dennis shared his opinion, and his comment was in no way condescending to OP.

A forum is a place for the exchange of differing opinions; that's what discussion is.

Your post policing was not needed.


Let me get this straight: His opinion is welcomed as an exchange of different idea(s), but my opinion is "post policing" and not an exchange of differing idea(s)?

[This message has been edited by mrossum (edited 02-22-2019).]

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pmbrunelle
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Report this Post02-19-2019 06:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for pmbrunelleClick Here to Email pmbrunelleSend a Private Message to pmbrunelleEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by mrossum:
His opinion is welcomed as an exchange of different idea(s)


Correct

 
quote
Originally posted by mrossum:
my opinion is "post policing"


Correct

 
quote
Originally posted by mrossum:
not an exchange of differing idea(s)?


In a thread about cradles and suspension, on-topic "differing ideas" relate to cradles and suspension.

Complaining about Dennis while he's behaving nicely, while being a differing idea, is not welcome.

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mrossum
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Report this Post02-22-2019 11:00 AM Click Here to See the Profile for mrossumClick Here to Email mrossumSend a Private Message to mrossumEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by pmbrunelle:


In a thread about cradles and suspension, on-topic "differing ideas" relate to cradles and suspension.

Complaining about Dennis while he's behaving nicely, while being a differing idea, is not welcome.


original post was looking to BUY a cradle. he was not asking for an opinion on merits of the change-over. with that in mind, Dennis responded with an opinion on the merits, which TOTALLY missed the point of the original post. If he asked for opinions on the change-over, Dennis would have been right in line with his OPINION. I don't take shots across the bow just because I don't like an opinion.

[This message has been edited by mrossum (edited 02-22-2019).]

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