So, I have an 86 GT with a V-6 and four speed. I’m pulling the turd V-6 and putting in the 4.9, and I know before you say it, I’m starting off carbed and later I am going fuel injected. Im waiting because I intend to end up with coil on plug fly by wire but its going to take some time to get all that squared away. Anyway, I want to keep the AC and I don’t have a bracket for the compressor. To my knowledge the V-6 compressor will work on the 4.9 but I don’t think the brackets will work. I’ve searched ebay and the webs and can find a ac delete but not the bracketry. Anyone have any info on this? I can fabricate anything, I have good welding and fabrication skills, but I don’t want to reinvent the wheel if not needed.
Thanks in advance
------------------ Mike T CCWorks http://www.ccworks.org Choppers and Fiero's RUUUULLLLEEEEE michael.tullock@ccworks.net
going carb first cause I already have everything and I don't want to use the Cadillac brain. I intend to use the brain out of a 2000 Silverado 5.3 I just have to get the firing order of the spark and injectors tweaked to match 18436572. I did miss type, not fly by wire, but fly by cable, with the option of fly by wire at a later date. going to use a holly external trigger wheel for crank sig and the guts from a vortec disy for cam sig. I was hoping someone had the brackets laying around cause taking it off the car in the junkyard (pull-a-part) is a pain in the crack. Yes I have read about the torque and I love torque, getting set back in the seat is a great feeling, I'll take cubic inches over SC v-6 any day. I'm using a Spec 4 clutch with solid six puck disk cause everything I've read shows the springs blowing out of the disk. I'm having an adapter plate made to match the Holley 650 to the two barrel intake and radiusing the intake just under the carb plate to keep fuel from being stripped off as it makes that sharp turn. also removing the EGR tubes and plugging the holes. any suggestions on muffler?
------------------ Mike T CCWorks http://www.ccworks.org Choppers and Fiero's RUUUULLLLEEEEE michael.tullock@ccworks.net
[This message has been edited by P.O.L. Mafia (edited 01-16-2019).]
yes it is, but everyone with a 4.9 FI uses the caddy brain, I like to be different. I'm in the middle of building my 77 Camaro, 305 with 400 crank and rods gm TPI with 2000 Silverado brain rewired for 18436572 mated to a Muncie four. I don't have anything that's not modified different from everyone else. everyone dogs me out for stroking the 305, but i'll be the only one with it.
yes it is, but everyone with a 4.9 FI uses the caddy brain, I like to be different. I'm in the middle of building my 77 Camaro, 305 with 400 crank and rods gm TPI with 2000 Silverado brain rewired for 18436572 mated to a Muncie four. I don't have anything that's not modified different from everyone else. everyone dogs me out for stroking the 305, but i'll be the only one with it.
There are many obstacles to overcome by using a different ECM on the Cadillac 4.9L. For instance you will require a way to control the idle. The Caddy 4.9L uses a throttle body with an idle air control motor that few other common ECM's will control. IMO there is nothing wrong with matching your engine to the ECM that came with it. That computer is tunable and the code is designed especially for your engine. This engine doesn't take all that well to mods so the best idea might be to leave it stock and use it as is. Great performance can be achieved with the right gearing.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
I assume you have HP tuners then which is why you want to use that ECM?
We have HP Tuners here but unfortunately it can only tune flash based PCM's based upon OBD II. The Cadillac ECM is OBD 1.5 and we use Tunnercat with the proper definition file to make program changes . Fastchips makes a chip for $159.00 that CLAIMS to increase power but we've never see dyno tests with it.. The Cadillac guys say that it works though. Cadillac 4.9L Performance Chip Just click on the 93 model year. If there was a way to simply change over to OBD II I might consider it but it comes down to risk vs reward. I don't see changes to an OBDII system resulting in more horsepower.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
[This message has been edited by Dennis LaGrua (edited 01-16-2019).]
We have HP Tuners here but unfortunately it can only tune flash based PCM's based upon OBD II. The Cadillac ECM is OBD 1.5 and we use Tunnercat with the proper definition file to make program changes . Fastchips makes a chip for $159.00 that CLAIMS to increase power but we've never see dyno tests with it.. The Cadillac guys say that it works though. Cadillac 4.9L Performance Chip Just click on the 93 model year. If there was a way to simply change over to OBD II I might consider it but it comes down to risk vs reward. I don't see changes to an OBDII system resulting in more horsepower.
Dennis I understand that HPtuners is for the newer vehicles, I was asking the OP because of the "want" to use a 5.3 ECM in which case HPtuners would be used for. I do believe we can all agree on the fact that getting more power out of programming on the 4.9 is probably not going to yield a great amount of rewards. However if it is possible using a new ECM could be easier to work with for sure.
Another option is to use a GM truck TB with IAC motor, cut the injector pod off and fill the holes with RTV, make a small adapter plate to spin the TB 180 degrees, fab a simple spacer for the egr (to clear the throttle linkage), then use the 7730 (easier to tune than the Cadillac ECM) with a 305 TPI prom.
I have a person that sets the ECM up for me and I hope to get the software soon and start learning more. I’m a network engineer by trade and a white hat (sometimes grey) hacker. Ecms intrigue me and I like tweaking things and making them do things they weren’t designed to do. I’m old enough not to care about getting every last Fb of torque and HP. I want something that when someone looks at it they go, dang, how did you do that? I went 4.9 because its basically bolt in and a v8 with gobs of torque and going carb first because I have everything for that and I can take my time gathering parts for the FI. That way I can drive it now, then next winter, pull her back in the garage to do the FI upgrade.
If you want to learn about ECUs, I would suggest avoiding anything from GM (or any other OEM).
Consider the Megaquirt range of ECUs; the only engine computers I am aware of that are sold with source code available. MS is not free software; the licensing agreement only permits you to run it on official MS hardware. You can go have a look at the source on msextra.com.
Unlike an OEM ECU, you're not locked into a particular trigger wheel pattern. MS supports many trigger wheels out of the box, and if yours isn't supported, you can have a go at writing your own wheel decoder.
Source code is in the C language, with some fast bits in asm. The toolchain is free, and I know it works on Windows (I use Windows on my tuning laptop).
You can do your project the way you want it; your creativity is not stifled in order to conform to the GM way. Sure, the OEM stuff is more refined, but to me, the tweakability/hackability advatange of MS outweighs the driveability/refinement advatange of OEM computers.
Dennis I understand that HPtuners is for the newer vehicles, I was asking the OP because of the "want" to use a 5.3 ECM in which case HPtuners would be used for. I do believe we can all agree on the fact that getting more power out of programming on the 4.9 is probably not going to yield a great amount of rewards. However if it is possible using a new ECM could be easier to work with for sure.
Except for the fact that no OBD II PCM that I know of will operate the idle air motor on the throttle body of the 4.9L.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
Im waiting because I intend to end up with coil on plug fly by wire but its going to take some time to get all that squared away.
I assume you've checked out all the retrofit kits at www.eficonnection.com I know they don't have one for the 4.9, but you may be able to use their parts and find inspiration for your sensor mounting there.
quote
Originally posted by pmbrunelle:
If you want to learn about ECUs, I would suggest avoiding anything from GM (or any other OEM).
Consider the Megaquirt range of ECUs; the only engine computers I am aware of that are sold with source code available. MS is not free software; the licensing agreement only permits you to run it on official MS hardware. You can go have a look at the source on msextra.com.
Unlike an OEM ECU, you're not locked into a particular trigger wheel pattern. MS supports many trigger wheels out of the box, and if yours isn't supported, you can have a go at writing your own wheel decoder.
Source code is in the C language, with some fast bits in asm. The toolchain is free, and I know it works on Windows (I use Windows on my tuning laptop).
You can do your project the way you want it; your creativity is not stifled in order to conform to the GM way. Sure, the OEM stuff is more refined, but to me, the tweakability/hackability advatange of MS outweighs the driveability/refinement advatange of OEM computers.
I think he'd be able to get up and running FAR more quickly with a GM computer. After all, the 4.9 can be run with a 7730 using the stock pickup coil. For ANY computer using anything but the stock pickup coil, he'll have to add a crank (and probably cam) sensor (I think the 4.9 uses a reed switch on the distributor?). If he sets those up similar to factory, then it'll fire up and run with a GM computer. He can then take it to a dyno shop which has HPTuners and get it dialed in, then drive it home.
With MS, maybe it'll work first try with any given feature, maybe not. RageRumble479's home-written trigger module doesn't work on your setup and no one can figure out why? Good luck with that...
quote
Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua:
Except for the fact that no OBD II PCM that I know of will operate the idle air motor on the throttle body of the 4.9L.
As FieroGuru conclusively demonstrated, a throttle body swap is NBD.
[This message has been edited by Will (edited 01-22-2019).]
Originally posted by Will: I think he'd be able to get up and running FAR more quickly with a GM computer. After all, the 4.9 can be run with a 7730 using the stock pickup coil. For ANY computer using anything but the stock pickup coil, he'll have to add a crank (and probably cam) sensor (I think the 4.9 uses a reed switch on the distributor?). If he sets those up similar to factory, then it'll fire up and run with a GM computer. He can then take it to a dyno shop which has HPTuners and get it dialed in, then drive it home.
With MS, maybe it'll work first try with any given feature, maybe not. RageRumble479's home-written trigger module doesn't work on your setup and no one can figure out why? Good luck with that...
It really depends on how OP views the computer aspect of an engine swap: 1. A necessary item to complete in the simplest manner possible to get the engine running 2. Diving into the computer is a delectable part of the engine swap experience
For someone who says:
quote
Originally posted by P.O.L. Mafia: I hope to get the software soon and start learning more. I’m a network engineer by trade and a white hat (sometimes grey) hacker. Ecms intrigue me and I like tweaking things and making them do things they weren’t designed to do.
I suspect that case #2 may apply.
quote
Originally posted by P.O.L. Mafia: guts from a vortec disy for cam sig.
I wonder if the Vortec 4.3 dizzy would work on a 2.8.
Heh, too late for that idea, I'm already half done my cam sensor retrofit into a 2.8 dizzy.
[This message has been edited by pmbrunelle (edited 01-22-2019).]
So, I've decided to go ahead and go FI, you all talked me into it! But, (as usual) I'm going a different route. going to use a GM 16197427 as the brain. going to convert it from TBI to MPFI by rewiring the injectors and modifying the board to fire 8 injectors instead of 2 and modify the memcal to. And I'm going to use the throttle body from a Camaro TPI and make an adaptor plate to mount to the intake. Hopefully dropping the 2.8 this weekend and start putting the 4.9 in. time for welding mount exhaust and other goodies!!
Originally posted by P.O.L. Mafia: going to convert it from TBI to MPFI by rewiring the injectors and modifying the board to fire 8 injectors instead of 2
What board mods are involved? With batch-fired MPFI, the injectors are typically wired in parallel (as in stock Fiero 2.8), so 2 outputs ought to be enough.
Are you perhaps talking about a board mod to handle more current because the impedance of four paralleled injectors is too low?
There are two mods , one to the computer mod and one to the memcal This is the jumper you have to solder in to the memcal Hard to see the little blue jumper wire on the memcal
and you need to take out these resistors and solder in solid wire.
then, because its a complete runaround to program the chip, you use this to bypass the original chip allowing for a re-writable chip while still using the original memcal
[This message has been edited by P.O.L. Mafia (edited 02-27-2019).]
So I have the engine in the cradle, new flywheel and clutch, and im making motor mounts now. I'm working on the wiring harness but I cant figure out how to pull the wires out of the ECU connectors to move them to the new ecu connector. I realy don't want to cut/splice all the connections. Ive searched but cant find anything (probably using wrong search terms). Can anyone tell me how to get the wires out of the ECU connectors?
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