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Rear Brake Calipers sticking by Mavrick1798
Started on: 01-05-2019 02:38 PM
Replies: 10 (135 views)
Last post by: theogre on 01-07-2019 12:01 AM
Mavrick1798
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Report this Post01-05-2019 02:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Mavrick1798Click Here to Email Mavrick1798Send a Private Message to Mavrick1798Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I have an 86 GT and for the past few weeks I've noticed the rear brakes are sticking. When is park on a slight incline and put the car into park and let off the brake the car would slowly roll while the rear brakes were groaning. This problem reached its peak last night while I was driving and the driver side rear caliper completely stuck on to the point of the rotor glowing red and sparks flying. I have two new calipers on hold at a local shop and I'm about to go and tear into things and see what's going on. I'm wondering if anyone has rebuilt rear calipers for the Fiero and if it's worth it to just get new ones all together? Also no the parking was not on. When i have tried to use it in the past the car still rolls.

If I do go with the new Calipers are there any adjustments needed for the parking brake assembly on the new Calipers? I was reading that some people remove the parking brake lever on caliper and turn the bolt in till the pads touch the rotor? Any insight would be helpful, trying to go the most cost effective route on this.

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Dennis LaGrua
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Report this Post01-05-2019 03:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaClick Here to Email Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

IMO, the rear calipers on a Fiero are problematic. Some owners have gone so far as to use front calipers on the rear but then you lose the eBrake. Let the car sit for a season and chances are the rear calipers will lock up but first check the 30 +yr old brake hoses as if they don't flow back properly the brakes will lock up.

------------------
" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

[This message has been edited by Dennis LaGrua (edited 01-05-2019).]

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FX
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Report this Post01-05-2019 05:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FXClick Here to Email FXSend a Private Message to FXEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Dennis is correct on the hoses degrading internally. The greater pressure applied by the pedal will operate the brakes correctly, but when you get off the pedal the pressure can't release. Also, calipers are easy to rebuild on most, although I've never had a Fiero one apart. I would start there with a rebuild on both. Never do just one. Kits should be under 20 bucks, all it consists of is an O-ring and a dust boot. The caliper can develop a ridge of crud in the bore, and cause it to stick when released...Don't forget to hone the bore. If you don't have a hone, you can use light emery in circular oscillating motions...You can 'blow' the piston out with compressed air through the line hole...

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theogre
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Report this Post01-05-2019 05:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

So You parked w/ Parking Brake On and Stuck On trying to drive?
Can be calipers but common problem is crap cables are sticking or water in the cables are freezing and either will cause this.

Try a blow drier etc to warm the cables. Do not overheat because many brake cable have plastic liners that you might not see just look at them. If helps get new cables.

Many New brake cables are made better and resist winter freezing but could still happen and why many drivers won't use parking brake in the winter even on new cars.

back to calipers...
Caliper(s) can be bad or water got in the space between pistons. Example: "Plug" on front face of piston try to keep crap out of that space but driving thru deep water or plug have problems do its job lets more water/dirt in and can make problem any time of year.
See my Cave, Rear Brakes and Rear Piston notes

 
quote
Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua:
IMO, the rear calipers on a Fiero are problematic. Some owners have gone so far as to use front calipers on the rear but then you lose the eBrake. Let the car sit for a season and chances are the rear calipers will lock up but first check the 30 +yr old brake hoses as if they don't flow back properly the brakes will lock up.
Yes Can check for problem w/ hoses too but if happened only for parking, check cables first.
Hose Support Bracket holding the middle can rust and swell and crush the hose or hose can swell internally either/both restricting fluid flow and make pad drag etc.

Quick check is Carefully pry open the bracket a bit. Can "un crush" the hose but even If helps get new hoses for all wheels. If any hoses have any damage then need new hoses because oil/grease can easily get thru that and swell hose liner shut.
Many times need them on 10+ year old cars not just 20 30 or more years old because many to all have "old" "cheap" 3 layer hose. To replace... Use OE style "rubber" but newer SAE J1401 hose. Hose is mark with w/ DOT as always and SAE J1401 too. Raybestos PG Plus and others have this but not all so don't buy whatever. If a vendor can't/won't tell you buy elsewhere.

But...
ID10t owners and nubes that follow them will "fix" or "upgrade" using front calipers on rear axle. Purposely disabling or just non-functional Parking/Emergency brakes is illegal in most states regardless you "pass inspection" or state doesn't bother w/ inspection. In NY and some other that is a big Fail for missing/damage P-brake parts because they physically check under the car. If Abbotsford is in Canada they can have same or stricter laws/rules and inspections in many areas. If Abbotsford is in UK, MOT rules have changed last year and more ways to Fail.

------------------
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theogre
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Report this Post01-05-2019 07:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by FX:
Dennis is correct on the hoses degrading internally. The greater pressure applied by the pedal will operate the brakes correctly, but when you get off the pedal the pressure can't release. Also, calipers are easy to rebuild on most, although I've never had a Fiero one apart. I would start there with a rebuild on both. Never do just one. Kits should be under 20 bucks, all it consists of is an O-ring and a dust boot. The caliper can develop a ridge of crud in the bore, and cause it to stick when released...Don't forget to hone the bore. If you don't have a hone, you can use light emery in circular oscillating motions...You can 'blow' the piston out with compressed air through the line hole...
And very likely you will have problem...
DIY Rebuilding "Fiero type" Rear caliper often doesn't work right now or fail again and likely soon and on the highway because Many problems are Failures Inside the piston assembly. Bad piston assem can cause pad drag problem and that can cause "warped" rotors, fluid boiling or even a Fire.
Honing etc in the bore of Aluminum calipers and Master Cylinders often make more problems. Many have a thin clear Anodize to prevent corrosion and honing remove that and corroded fast after. Honing and most DIY does not remove crap in the seal grooves in calipers so seals often fails after.

"Fiero type" rear have 3 pressure seals... Main outside in gropve in the caliper bore, seal on P-brake screw, and inner seal between pistons in groove on inner piston. Most "Rebuilt Kit" do not have 3rd seal because GM never made the piston assembly to be fix/rebuilt. Worse their are at least 3 rear piston versions used by GM just for Fiero and Many cars still have "weak" rear pistons was covered under Recall for stick trans models.

"Fiero Type" because other GM cars have same rear piston design.

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Mavrick1798
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Report this Post01-06-2019 01:20 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Mavrick1798Click Here to Email Mavrick1798Send a Private Message to Mavrick1798Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Don't know why all the focus on the park brake when I explicitly said the park was not on nor had I even attempted to use it recently. I've got two new calipers gonna install them in the morning but might consider getting the new rubber hoses and putting them on before continuing, would rather cover all bases now and be done with it! Out of curiosity how would I tell if the rubber brake hoses are bad? They look to be in good condition on the outside but I don't want to take chances.

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wftb
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Report this Post01-06-2019 08:00 AM Click Here to See the Profile for wftbClick Here to Email wftbSend a Private Message to wftbEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

If your hoses are cracked swollen or blistered they should be replaced. Other than that they will not cause a caliper to stick unless your brake fluid is more like mud than fluid. New calipers and new brake fluid should solve your problem. Here is a good link with info on how the rear calipers work: http://www.fiero.nl/forum/F...2/HTML/134054-2.html

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Dennis LaGrua
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Report this Post01-06-2019 09:59 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaClick Here to Email Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by theogre:

And very likely you will have problem...
DIY Rebuilding "Fiero type" Rear caliper often doesn't work right now or fail again and likely soon and on the highway because Many problems are Failures Inside the piston assembly. Bad piston assem can cause pad drag problem and that can cause "warped" rotors, fluid boiling or even a Fire.
Honing etc in the bore of Aluminum calipers and Master Cylinders often make more problems. Many have a thin clear Anodize to prevent corrosion and honing remove that and corroded fast after. Honing and most DIY does not remove crap in the seal grooves in calipers so seals often fails after.

"Fiero type" rear have 3 pressure seals... Main outside in gropve in the caliper bore, seal on P-brake screw, and inner seal between pistons in groove on inner piston. Most "Rebuilt Kit" do not have 3rd seal because GM never made the piston assembly to be fix/rebuilt. Worse their are at least 3 rear piston versions used by GM just for Fiero and Many cars still have "weak" rear pistons was covered under Recall for stick trans models.

"Fiero Type" because other GM cars have same rear piston design.


So what you are saying is that rebuilds don't generally work. New calipers are no longer available so what's your solution.? I have been using rebuilt calipers on my different Fiero's and after installing three sets so far they are working fine. As for the piston, I have a few brand new ones on the shelf. They might still be made. I view rear caliper failures on Fiero's, primarily on those that are stored or not used often enough. Corrosion seems to freeze them.


------------------
" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

[This message has been edited by Dennis LaGrua (edited 01-06-2019).]

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wftb
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Report this Post01-06-2019 10:30 AM Click Here to See the Profile for wftbClick Here to Email wftbSend a Private Message to wftbEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I have had one rebuilt rear caliper that failed just after the warranty was up and the culprit was a piston that was not rebuilt. They just replaced all the easy stuff and did nothing about the inner piston seal. The last rebuilt I bought has performed like new though.

One thing to be aware of is that with different brackets that bolt to these calipers, they were used on different cars besides the Fiero. So make sure your new calipers have the right brackets on them before you hand in your cores. The brackets come off fairly easily so you can just swap them out.

My old 85 2m4 was stored outside in the winter. Replacing a frozen rear caliper was almost an annual event. No problems with my 86 since I store indoors now.

------------------
86 GT built 2.2 ecotec turbo
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theogre
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Report this Post01-06-2019 09:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Mavrick1798:
Don't know why all the focus on the park brake when I explicitly said the park was not on nor had I even attempted to use it recently. I've got two new calipers gonna install them in the morning but might consider getting the new rubber hoses and putting them on before continuing, would rather cover all bases now and be done with it! Out of curiosity how would I tell if the rubber brake hoses are bad? They look to be in good condition on the outside but I don't want to take chances.
This...
"When is park on a slight incline and put the car into park and let off the brake the car would slowly roll while the rear brakes were groaning."
Did you put P-brake on? I read that you did.
Even if not... likely have pad dragging cause by piston(s), slider(s) or both binding. If Rear then more so because P-brake problems.
See the rest of brake section in my cave.

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theogre
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Report this Post01-07-2019 12:01 AM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua:
So what you are saying is that rebuilds don't generally work. New calipers are no longer available so what's your solution.? I have been using rebuilt calipers on my different Fiero's and after installing three sets so far they are working fine. As for the piston, I have a few brand new ones on the shelf. They might still be made. I view rear caliper failures on Fiero's, primarily on those that are stored or not used often enough. Corrosion seems to freeze them.
Many times Brake Corrosion problems killing Calipers etc are 1 or 2 problems... Brake Parts are installed w/o proper lube. "Old" Fluid.
Common Examples:
Sliders need brake grease but many use any oil/grease, anti seize, etc, and ruins "Rubber" part by making then swell and sliders won't work.
Sliders have little or no lube and water etc attach the metals.
"Old" fluid includes New Fluid because is often far more "Wet" then just reducing Boil Point lets water attack the metal inside. If you have a iffy MC cap, leave system/bottle open for hours or more or drive thru deep water like many off roaders or people drive on flooded roads do then DOT 3 4 and 5.1 Fluid are often useless to prevent corrosion or boiling. (See my Cave, Brake Fluid)

Yes, A lot of DIY rebuild have problems and won't last long even if the brakes works right after their done. Like people believe you need to hone Al parts. Is a "Hold Over" from dealing w/ cast iron parts but causes a lot of problems w/ Al and other soft alloys. More so w/ "Fiero type" rears because of above and more. Again many have "Pre Recall" pistons... They are weak to start and even "break" the guts inside the piston assem.

More problems when many DIY try to "Fix" or "Rebuild" the rear pistons because some kits have inner piston seal or reused the old seal and have little or no clue what even looking at. Worse when back of piston "blows out" because pistons fail to self adjust and DIY think push them in again. Many have done this repeatedly by using force to retract. Each time the back is press in and blows out the back cover metal gets weaker and weaker. Weak back then inner spring can work the cover too and "fail" dragging the pads to the point can cause fluid boil etc w/ little or no warning and brakes fail or have a wheel fire.

Rebuilding from "Pros" and sold thru parts stores have problems too because some companies cut corners by reusing or "rebuilding" rear "Fiero type" pistons. This is why I tell many people to get the "life time" parts from AZ and few others because might need to replace in a few day to 1 or 2 years and you don't need a receipt to get AZ and a few others warranty. Even if the local store don't inventory the parts, often they can get next day w/o charging you FedEx etc shipper charge.

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