Hey Folks: Just newly into the Fiero scene.... Recently bought a 1986 Fiero 2M6, 4- speed manual. Just trying to get the kinks out my newly acquired car, and I'm hearing 2 things: 1) Parts are kinda hard to aquire (here in Canada) and 2) Mechanics don't want to touch Fieros because they are hard to work on (according to three different local auto shops I phoned). I live in Western Canada, so I am wondering if other people have been having these issues. Some things I am willing to try to do (the hobby part of owning a Fiero), but I am not a mechanic and want to be able to give it to a mechanic when I'm in over my head.... So for those of you that know about Fieros... What's the real deal, are they hard to work on? Mechanics worst nightmare? Are parts hard to come by in Canada? I checked Fiero Store on line, great web site, but a set of plug wires at $59 (reasonable price), soon becomes not reasonable when shipping is another $40... Can't imagine what other parts would cost fro shipping.... Thoughts???
Fiero store having a 1 day sale on 12-12-18 for 10% off all parts. Not sure if they waive shipping fee after a certain dollar amount. Rodney Dickman is another good source for parts. Rock Auto also. Some places waive the shipping if you spend, like, over $100. Some don't. A Fiero is definitely a challenging hobby, but can be very gratifying.
I've rec'd parts from all over the US via Rock Auto, Advance Auto etc. Not only can you actually get parts, you frequently have a selection to choose from. Shipping via USPS (linked to Canada Post) is almost always the way to go in Ontario; large or heavy items I have sent to 24/7 Parcel in Niagara Falls NY (half an hour away. There's a 24/7 Parcel in Blaine WA, but that's not so handy for Victoria... you'll have to combine your trips with visits to your friends in White Rock, lol!
Are you a secondary school principal? With an auto shop on-site? Or maybe you know someone... that might help. There are guys still around that will work on Fieros - There's a shop 3 km from me that frequently works on old cars and is very helpful. They'll install stuff I source. I'm a 'pretend' mechanic so I do most things myself. The factory service manuals are very helpful as are many people right here.
It's a very rare mechanic that will tell you he won't work on a car because he does not know how....but that's what they are trying to say... This seems to be true just about everywhere.....even here in Michigan where they built the car.
[This message has been edited by Gall757 (edited 12-10-2018).]
They are not hard to work on, just old so no one has the books/knowledge any more for the few quirky things they car has so it takes longer because they have to go look things up the hard way but in general, it's a car, same as pretty much any other car from that era, same stuff applies. Many parts are from the gm parts bin so pretty easy to get hold of, others are remade by the likes of the Fiero store and Rodney Dickman, some are just unique so second hand is the only option. Cannot comment on shipping to Canada, but sourcing parts is probably like sourcing parts for say a British 'classic' here in the US, it's the proce you pay for owning an old 'foreign' car! I'm 17 years into Fieros and still messing with them. Cool car (when they run), pain in the butt (but lovable with it) when they don't.
------------------ Anything I might say is probably worth what you paid for it, so treat it accordingly!
I've sometimes heard folks say they won't work on it because it's a rear engine car. I ask them if they've ever worked on a front wheel drive car. When they say they have, I tell them that it's a front wheel drive assembly, just moved to the back of the car. It truly is a Chevrolet Citation front wheel drive moved to the rear.
I've been around Fieros for 31 years now. We have had..... let's see.... 6 of them now. All the way from the new one I ordered in 1987 up to an 86 and an 87 both with the 3800 SC/4t65e hd in them. I've done most of the wrenching on them myself with only the occasional visit to my local mechanic if I was in over my head. Parts as said are pretty readily available and I have also always felt they were just front wheel drive powertrains just moved to the back. My latest reto modded 87 with the 3800SC just did 1100 miles of driving through the Smokey Mountains. Not even a hiccup, averaging 32 mpg and over 5000 ft. in altitude at times. Wife said it was one of the best trips we have ever taken. Get some shop manuals and start tinkering as needed. It's a fun hobby you can drive.......
Can't imagine what other parts would cost fro shipping.... Thoughts???
Ebay.
Being in Scotland, ebay global shipping is by far the easiest way to send/receive from the States, especially if you want a load of close out parts from Rockauto that may be coming from various locations. If you have a friend who can accept delivery in the States, then list on ebay.com it comes up with a carriage/Customs price. Of course technically those parts are now 'secondhand, old stock' ( especially if removed from boxes/packets and repacked) and the Customs charge is based on the listing price, which is £0.99/$0.99. Not that I'm suggesting you would want to avoid Customs Duty, no, no, no. not at all.
Thanks so much for the feed back, guys! - On the one hand, only ever having done oil changes and other super easy little stuff, I'm a bit overwhelmed by the issues that I have read about,, but on the other hand, as it is going to be a new hobby for me, I am glad to hear, its not just the certified mechanics keeping their Fieros alive. I do have an original repair manual for my 2m6, and a Haynes manual. Issues that I'm going to try to tackle.... - small coolant leak above oil filter side of engine - passenger side - Fuel gauge reads more than full until gas tank is half empty, then drops down. - want to add a bigger brake booster, as mentioned by others in this forum, - check for vacuum leaks and replace hoses, EGR valve, etc - replace spark plugs and wires - on that note, the wires seem to be different lengths - I'm guessing there is a specific order to where they go?? (also there are metal sheaths on the plug wires, how do you pull plugs out with those? - squeaky clutch pedal...
...but a set of plug wires at $59 (reasonable price), soon becomes not reasonable when shipping is another $40... Can't imagine what other parts would cost fro shipping.... Thoughts???
That seems like an item that should be available locally. Checking the part numbers for Fiero V6 plug wires, I see the same part number is used on lots of GM cars from the 80s. That is true of a lot of Fiero parts. Ask at the parts store; even if they have to order it from their warehouse, at least you won't have to pay extra.
2) Mechanics don't want to touch Fieros because they are hard to work on (according to three different local auto shops I phoned).
Urban myth from lazy mechanics. Every car is hard to work on when you don't know what you're doing. Just because the engine is at the other end of the car they want to act like it's suddenly "a big job".
The biggest job to do is change the clutch. But even that is exactly the same process as any FWD of same vintage like a Cavalier. Everything else like tuneups, oil changes is exactly the same too - so can they NOT do those jobs either?
Some mechanics are afraid of Fieros, because they're different from what the mechanic is used to. But they aren't any more challenging than a FWD car. After owning a German car for several years, I've come to appreciate how simple and straightforward the Fiero is.
If mechanics want business, can't understand why they'd shy away from the Fiero. My first Fiero, about 10 years ago, needed a new clutch, and I lived in Northern British Columbia... when I say North, I mean NORTH... anyway local mechanic, replaced clutch no problem (had to drop engine, but didn't ***** and moan about it either). I think it might have cost $900-$1000, can't remember now... But now that I live in civilization, southern BC, Im scratching my head to find a mechanic,,, bizarre. I'm so glad to hear that they are fixable and you don't have to be a mechanic!
Is there still a fiero club in BC? Call them up and join the fun. I've gotten many great deals on parts from members and the occasional helping hand. LOTS of advice too. Just dont be afraid to return the favor in terms of basic labour... you will learn a bunch about the car and have a great time too!
To answer your question about the metal sleeves on the spark plug wires. Those shield the spark plug boots from the heat of the nearby exhaust manifold. They have a bonus use, too. Because the boots tend to stick to the spark plugs after a period of time, trying to remove the the plug wires can result in the boot breaking in half, leaving part of it on the plug. It becomes very difficult to get that section of boot off the front plugs.
Grasp the metal sleeve and give it a twist in both directions. It exerts force evenly across the length of the spark plug boot and breaks it loose from the spark plug. Then you can use it to pull the boot off the plug. If you only have 3, I recommend putting them on the front bank of plugs. When reinstalling the boots or when installing new wires, put a liberal amount of dielectric grease inside the boot then slide it onto the plug. This prevents water from getting inside and also acts as a release agent to reduce the likelihood of the boot sticking to the plug.
If all I had to work on would be Fieros, I would be happy with that. Compared to the crap I have to work on now. First there is a difference between a mechanic and a technician. A mechanic doesn't mind getting his hands dirty/stained. I may be designated an Automotive technician, but damn it, I'm a mechanic. I have been wrenching for a living for the most part since 1980. When the Fieros first came out, I was a little depressed when seeing them due to the hype that GM had gave before they came out. Being what the Chevettes were and what the X bodies were. It was supposed to be this all over new engineering. If the first ones were as the 88s, I would have been very impressed. Then much of the Chevette front suspension lived on in many foreign stuff. The Chevette continued in Australia. The Impulse and near clone lived on. The X body went to live on in the A bodies and finally died in 1996. Can't count the number of cabs I have seen based on the A body, that refused to die. So I became impressed again with the longevity of the suspensions and the drive line in Fieros. If it fit in an A body, it will work in a Fiero without much headache. A Fiero is a piece of cake to work on compared to, lets say( Dohc 3.4 Lumina) and that's old school. Just try to do a set of plugs on a late model car without taking the intake off. The wiring harnesses are being made with much smaller gauge wire. Had a 2015 Accord that the entire interior harness had to be replaced because the floor had got wet and the small gauge wiring didn't last 36 hours before the carpet had been pulled up. The Air bag wiring to the seats was effected. Chrysler 3.6, under intake oil cooler assemblies having to be replaced because they fall apart or leak badly. And by the way, the new OEM part has an expiration date on them. Ford 4.6 blowing spark plug threads out or 5.4 plug breaking off. Ford 2.0 or 2.5 with a fiction washer on the lower timing gear instead of a key way on the crankshaft. Keep that in mind if you recommend a crankshaft seal. Early Northstar cars that had to have the entire subframe dropped to do an alternator before they rectified that about 2 years after they came out. Don't get me started on their oil leaks. The list is endless. And is getting worse. Drive line and suspension parts are easy to get for Fieros. Much of those parts are used in LLV vehicles (long life vehicles) that were used by government and fleets. So the after market support was huge. Of course single year (88) , body, brake,and interior parts are getting harder to find.
[This message has been edited by cmechmann (edited 12-13-2018).]
Good to know, cmechmann... Im keeping my Fiero! BTW, I don't know why but I just love the notch back style WAY better than the GT style. Im sure its just me, but the notchback just seems way more sporty looking (opened a can of worms there, I'm sure)!
I currently have to use my fastback for a daily driver. But I have owned a notchie. Had someone come through a stop sign and it had to go to the boneyard in the sky. I have never had an 88, so I can't speak for them. However The Notchie seemed to handle better. The fastback is a little heavier. The notchie is also easier to get body parts for. I had an 85 GT notchie and the front bumper cover was only used on them and the 84 Indy cars because of the trim molding. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipoMpbEfzGw look at time stamp 5:23. That's mine, but now I had replaced the 3800sc with a 3800n/a due to it being a daily driver. Believe me, it is still very fun with the n/a engine and I can use any crappy fuel I want.
I currently have to use my fastback for a daily driver. But I have owned a notchie. Had someone come through a stop sign and it had to go to the boneyard in the sky. I have never had an 88, so I can't speak for them. However The Notchie seemed to handle better. The fastback is a little heavier. The notchie is also easier to get body parts for. I had an 85 GT notchie and the front bumper cover was only used on them and the 84 Indy cars because of the trim molding. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipoMpbEfzGw look at time stamp 5:23. That's mine, but now I had replaced the 3800sc with a 3800n/a due to it being a daily driver. Believe me, it is still very fun with the n/a engine and I can use any crappy fuel I want.
What's wrong with the SC being a daily driver? Seems like a lot of work to change a motor just to lose some power?! Plenty of daily driver cars on the road with far more power than a 3800SC Fiero Nice ride!
[This message has been edited by cam-a-lot (edited 12-14-2018).]
OK I have a FrankenFiero. Using a 92/93 PCM from a Park Avenue Ultra. Cheap to rewrite EEproms. Using a 1995 3.4 Grand Am transmission code 5WFW, fine final drive/sun gears. Same as the G/H supercharged gears but with normal right tail stock and standard shafts. Much easier to part together shafts. That transmission had been gone through about 6 months before I did the swap. Originally I had the engine from the Park Avenue. Series 1 vin 1. Like an idiot, lent the car to someone and they over reved it cold and spun a bearing. So I quickly had to find a replacement. Found a 1998 Series II vin 1. But had a lot of miles. Redid the exhaust and rear mount brackets. Had to modify the MAF connector, but worked well after editing the EEprom bin. Except I had to use 91 octane or better. This was in my 85 GT and all was good till someone came through a stop sign on me and structurally damaged the front. Yanked the entire drive line, struts on down. Including all the wiring and PCM. I bought the 87 just under 4 years ago. That transmission had a lot of miles so one weekend I swapped in the other drive line. Can't tell you how much I missed the overdrive transmission. Then shortly after that I changed jobs and had to drive longer distances to work. Also one of the yards that our shop deals with had a 2005 vin K with Carfax confirmed 14,000 miles on it for $375.00. Other than editing the bin again and fabricating another alternator bracket, the rest was bolt in. Took me about 8 hrs, but I had the brackets made already. It is another mutant part. That year Vin K that came in the Lesabre was Series II but had the same heads as the Series III But the rods and pistons were the same as the Series II. Rated at 205 hp and 230 torque. But I think it is a little light because the heads are the better breathing ones and I am using a much light torque converter. Not counting the light load on the drive belt. I think it is closer to 210 hp and 240 torque. Being that the 1998 vin 1 was rated at 240 hp and 260 torque, that's not a big loss. And about 20 lbs lighter in weight. So now I have an engine and trans I expect to get a least another 100,000 miles out of. Simple to work on. Good aftermarket support. Straight regular fuel. Around 32 mpg highway. Much better city than the Vin 1. And is no slouch getting the car to move.
[This message has been edited by cmechmann (edited 12-15-2018).]
