Click here to visit the donation page | View all sponsors
  Pennock's Fiero Forum
  Technical Discussion & Questions
  Any rear performance strut options anymore?

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Email This Page to Someone! | Printable Version


next newest topic | next oldest topic
Any rear performance strut options anymore? by kzelisko
Started on: 11-29-2018 08:31 PM
Replies: 25 (451 views)
Last post by: cvxjet on 12-04-2018 01:49 PM
kzelisko
Member

Posts: 253
From: Merrillville, IN
Registered: Dec 2006


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post11-29-2018 08:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for kzeliskoClick Here to Email kzeliskoSend a Private Message to kzeliskoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

So I tried to buy koni reds for the rear of my 86 gt a couple months ago, only to find out today that they are discontinued. Has anyone come up with anything from any other gm's that fit, or maybe cut-a-strut cartridge deals? It's my autocross car and I run it in e-street so my options are limited on how much rigging I can do, but as long ride height ends up the same, I could do some limited fabri-cobbling.

IP: Logged

Will
Member

Posts: 12615
From: Where you least expect me
Registered: Jun 2000


Feedback score: (1)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 233
Rate this member

Report this Post11-29-2018 08:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Not sure WTF you're talking about.

https://shox.com/shop/pontiac/015-koni-shocks-2/

IP: Logged

kzelisko
Member

Posts: 253
From: Merrillville, IN
Registered: Dec 2006


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post11-29-2018 08:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for kzeliskoClick Here to Email kzeliskoSend a Private Message to kzeliskoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

If you actually talk to koni directly they will tell you they are discontinued, unless somewhere has some laying around on the shelf somewhere, then the only reason they are still listed is because they haven't updated their catalog. That's what I ran into, I ordered from a place that listed them as available, was told it would be early november before they shipped, they never shipped so I called the place I ordered from, they called koni, koni says no more of them

IP: Logged

Iain
Member

Posts: 99
From: Out of my Tree, Perth, Scotland
Registered: Apr 2004


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post11-30-2018 09:29 AM Click Here to See the Profile for IainSend a Private Message to IainEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I'm going with a Bilstein monotube conversion. Not at all cheap. But it does mean I can decide what level of damping I want. Some manufacturers also do adjustable versions. Lot of work but it should be worth it. You do have to change the mounting plate too, the strut tops are 20mm, so unless you can make new rubber mounts it's spherical bearings.
I'd post pics but pip doesn't work on phones.

IP: Logged

Larryinkc
Member

Posts: 362
From: Kansas City, MO USA
Registered: Nov 2012


Feedback score: (3)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post11-30-2018 10:17 AM Click Here to See the Profile for LarryinkcSend a Private Message to LarryinkcEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

When I was looking for a pair a couple of years ago I had the same problem finding them. Classic Garage was able to help me.

http://classicgarage.com/87411063.html

IP: Logged

Will
Member

Posts: 12615
From: Where you least expect me
Registered: Jun 2000


Feedback score: (1)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 233
Rate this member

Report this Post11-30-2018 11:16 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

The '88 fronts have been discontinued for a while, but heretofore existing inventory has been available. That's starting to run thin.

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 11-30-2018).]

IP: Logged

Will
Member

Posts: 12615
From: Where you least expect me
Registered: Jun 2000


Feedback score: (1)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 233
Rate this member

Report this Post11-30-2018 03:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Rep at Shox.com said that they're completely out of Fiero Konis

IP: Logged

fieroguru
Member

Posts: 10523
From: Champaign, IL
Registered: Aug 2003


Feedback score:    (44)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 251
Rate this member

Report this Post11-30-2018 11:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I have confirmed with KONI that the Fiero strut is indeed discontinued and why. They have only processed 2 orders this year and the last one was in April and I have confirmed those two no longer have any inventory.

Here is the deal:
Within the KONI product line, the Fiero is the only application using the 2 metal stampings that create the attachment point to the knuckle (there are other applications within GM, but those were never in the KONI product line to help spread production costs and increase the available market).
Two large steel stamping companies in Europe went bankrupt last year, one of these was the supplier for the two Fiero bracket stampings.
KONI has been and continues to work on sourcing a new supplier, but with the Fiero market being double digit struts per year, they haven't found an economical solution from a European supplier.
Until KONI finds the right stamping supplier, they can't make any more, and with the declining potential market, there isn't much financial incentive either.

The largest purchaser of the Fiero strut has an open order for about 30+ struts. I called them today and they are a private distributor and will only share inventory details with their approved dealers (and there is a pretty high bar to being approved as one of their dealers - so I can't make the cut).
The 2nd largest purchaser has been verified to be out of inventory and has been pushing Koni to find a solution for a while.
If you google the part # and a business pops up, I have called or emailed them and confirmed their inventory is depleted.

Sourcing these will require finding some small to mid-level parts business that just happens to have some gathering dust on the shelf, or finding some in a bankrupt companies surplus auction.

[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 11-30-2018).]

IP: Logged

kzelisko
Member

Posts: 253
From: Merrillville, IN
Registered: Dec 2006


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post12-01-2018 09:42 AM Click Here to See the Profile for kzeliskoClick Here to Email kzeliskoSend a Private Message to kzeliskoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I figured that there were very limited sales on them and that was a large part of why they are discontinued. Looks like my choices are kyb or fab something. Anybody know of a strut with the correct body length that has an available koni insert cartridge? So long as the body is the right length and I can take everything out of it, I can steal the knuckle and spring mounts off an old strut and weld them on.

[This message has been edited by kzelisko (edited 12-01-2018).]

IP: Logged

cvxjet
Member

Posts: 1265
From: ca, usa
Registered: May 2010


Feedback score: (1)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post12-01-2018 11:28 AM Click Here to See the Profile for cvxjetClick Here to Email cvxjetSend a Private Message to cvxjetEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

You know what is really frustrating about this? Bilstein still makes struts for the MR2s and yet there are only 1/10 as many of them originally......and probably that ratio still exists! I understand that Fiero owners are not into spending as much on shocks/struts as a 911 or Ferrari owner, but the MR2 guys ain't money-bag types, either.

I had a 1973 mach 1 w/5.0 FI engine......I tuned the suspension so it handled very well...Had the Gabriel strider shocks on it.....Changed over to Bilsteins....It RODE better and Body control was better......they helped at both ends of the shock performance spectrum! Amazing......

I could breadboard a Bilstein shock onto the front of my Fiero with custom brackets, but the rear is very tightly constrained....and makes up most of the rear suspension.....

Bilstein used to make struts for the Fiero...then they stopped....They have the info/specs...Just make some more of them!

[This message has been edited by cvxjet (edited 12-01-2018).]

IP: Logged

Iain
Member

Posts: 99
From: Out of my Tree, Perth, Scotland
Registered: Apr 2004


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post12-01-2018 02:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for IainSend a Private Message to IainEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I have only just found out that photobucket is allowing hotlinking again, I'll upload my pics and show how I've done mine.

IP: Logged

88Fingers
Member

Posts: 60
From: Burlington Ontario Canada
Registered: Sep 2018


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post12-01-2018 03:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 88FingersClick Here to Email 88FingersSend a Private Message to 88FingersEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Hey Guys, get a set of FieroGuru fully assembled KYB Struts and you will be so happy! Koni is way overrated IMHO anyways. You will love them and the quality and price!!

IP: Logged

mrfiero
Member

Posts: 8860
From: Colorful Colorado
Registered: Mar 99


Feedback score:    (85)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 147
Rate this member

Report this Post12-01-2018 03:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mrfieroClick Here to Email mrfieroSend a Private Message to mrfieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

A little off topic....sorry. Is it true that KONI's are rebuildable? I have a pair of '88 front shocks and a pair of struts.....the shocks seem to be OK, but the struts are shot.

Just curious if anyone knows.

IP: Logged

fieroguru
Member

Posts: 10523
From: Champaign, IL
Registered: Aug 2003


Feedback score:    (44)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 251
Rate this member

Report this Post12-01-2018 04:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by mrfiero:

A little off topic....sorry. Is it true that KONI's are rebuildable? I have a pair of '88 front shocks and a pair of struts.....the shocks seem to be OK, but the struts are shot.

Just curious if anyone knows.


Yes. Rebuildable and they can be custom valved as well.

IP: Logged

Will
Member

Posts: 12615
From: Where you least expect me
Registered: Jun 2000


Feedback score: (1)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 233
Rate this member

Report this Post12-01-2018 10:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by mrfiero:

A little off topic....sorry. Is it true that KONI's are rebuildable? I have a pair of '88 front shocks and a pair of struts.....the shocks seem to be OK, but the struts are shot.

Just curious if anyone knows.


 
quote
Originally posted by fieroguru:

Yes. Rebuildable and they can be custom valved as well.


They can even convert them to be double adjustable. The all-in cost a few years back was $500/corner, including buying new struts. If you send them your old ones, it probably won't be that much, depending on how bad your struts are.

IP: Logged

mrfiero
Member

Posts: 8860
From: Colorful Colorado
Registered: Mar 99


Feedback score:    (85)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 147
Rate this member

Report this Post12-02-2018 01:53 AM Click Here to See the Profile for mrfieroClick Here to Email mrfieroSend a Private Message to mrfieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by fieroguru:


Yes. Rebuildable and they can be custom valved as well.

 
quote
Originally posted by Will:


They can even convert them to be double adjustable. The all-in cost a few years back was $500/corner, including buying new struts. If you send them your old ones, it probably won't be that much, depending on how bad your struts are.

Thanks for the info guys!

IP: Logged

cvxjet
Member

Posts: 1265
From: ca, usa
Registered: May 2010


Feedback score: (1)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post12-02-2018 11:40 AM Click Here to See the Profile for cvxjetClick Here to Email cvxjetSend a Private Message to cvxjetEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Iain, I would really like to see how you did your Bilsteins.........Any info and pics would be appreciated!

IP: Logged

msweldon
Member

Posts: 482
From: Georgia
Registered: Sep 2000


Feedback score: (1)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post12-02-2018 03:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for msweldonClick Here to Email msweldonSend a Private Message to msweldonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by 88Fingers:

Hey Guys, get a set of FieroGuru fully assembled KYB Struts and you will be so happy! Koni is way overrated IMHO anyways. You will love them and the quality and price!!


Yes KYB Struts are adequate for daily/spirited driving, but serious autocrossing or track/HPDE necessitating a ~1.8 and above suspension frequency will require a much stronger shock to control such spring rate. Once you get close to a 2.0 frequency and much above even the koni's in stock form have a hard time keeping up. Ultimately its about what you are attempting to accomplish with the shock/strut.

IP: Logged

Iain
Member

Posts: 99
From: Out of my Tree, Perth, Scotland
Registered: Apr 2004


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post12-02-2018 07:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for IainSend a Private Message to IainEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by cvxjet:

Iain, I would really like to see how you did your Bilsteins.........Any info and pics would be appreciated!



Been trying to do just that for about 2 hours, photobucket won't upload from my phone, this old computer took an hour just to find my phone and download the pics, now it won't connect o photobucket either.
Trying PIP but it keeps hanging when I try to install.

I'll keep trying

IP: Logged

cvxjet
Member

Posts: 1265
From: ca, usa
Registered: May 2010


Feedback score: (1)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post12-03-2018 12:05 AM Click Here to See the Profile for cvxjetClick Here to Email cvxjetSend a Private Message to cvxjetEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I was trained as an Avionics tech in the Navy and fixed computers at Atari in 1982....Actually came up with a fix in a few days that took the head engineer 2 months to figure out.....I could not program a computer to save my life!!!! (I'm lucky my laptop doesn't grow legs and run away...)

I can fix just about anything mechanical......

IP: Logged

lou_dias
Member

Posts: 4795
From: Warwick, RI
Registered: Jun 2000


Feedback score: (3)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 64
Rate this member

Report this Post12-03-2018 10:09 AM Click Here to See the Profile for lou_diasClick Here to Email lou_diasSend a Private Message to lou_diasEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Koni !!!

IP: Logged

zmcdonal
Member

Posts: 1669
From: NW, Indiana
Registered: Oct 2005


Feedback score:    (9)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post12-03-2018 10:42 AM Click Here to See the Profile for zmcdonalSend a Private Message to zmcdonalEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by kzelisko:

If you actually talk to koni directly they will tell you they are discontinued, unless somewhere has some laying around on the shelf somewhere, then the only reason they are still listed is because they haven't updated their catalog. That's what I ran into, I ordered from a place that listed them as available, was told it would be early november before they shipped, they never shipped so I called the place I ordered from, they called koni, koni says no more of them


I guess this means that the lightly used set I've had sitting in my garage for years just went up in value . . .

IP: Logged

Iain
Member

Posts: 99
From: Out of my Tree, Perth, Scotland
Registered: Apr 2004


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post12-03-2018 03:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for IainSend a Private Message to IainEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by cvxjet:

I was trained as an Avionics tech in the Navy and fixed computers at Atari in 1982....Actually came up with a fix in a few days that took the head engineer 2 months to figure out.....I could not program a computer to save my life!!!! (I'm lucky my laptop doesn't grow legs and run away...)

I can fix just about anything mechanical......


Yeah, computers do my nut it, you can't fix them with eezi start, ...weeell you Can...Squirt.. Whoosh,.. Sorted..

Righty, lets try this, if it works I'll do the rest.

I'm not going over the procedure to remove/strip the strut, Safety etc, if you're contemplating something like this you're going to be well up on that.

First off, you chop the bracket off
DSC_0123 by patersoniain, on Flickr

The strut body is welded to the bracket at the bottom, you cut or disc just above the weld.
DSC_0125 by patersoniain, on Flickr

Pic hasn't worked for the next bit, if you turn the bracket end on, there are two 'gaps' where the tube doesn't contact the bracket reinforcement, cut through those with a hacksaw, that should allow you to lever out the tube from the bracket, on one of mine there was a spot weld, I removed that with a holesaw.

Gives you this, clean, sandblast, acid dip, whatever you like, you may need to run a sanding drum/roll through, one of mine was fine, one was tight.

DSC_0129 by patersoniain, on Flickr

You can see the 'gaps' on this one, you cut through the tube there.

DSC_0128 by patersoniain, on Flickr

You buy a pair of these, coilover tubes

DSC_0130 by patersoniain, on Flickr
I got mine from here:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/...100675%26rk%3D2%26rk t%3D15%26sd%3D163182114918%26itm%3D153167667461&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci%3A37d53fda-f740-11e8-b9bf-74dbd180bdb7%7Cparentrq%3A75eacf8b1670a86195d70047fff8e528%7Ciid%3A1

[This message has been edited by Iain (edited 12-03-2018).]

IP: Logged

Iain
Member

Posts: 99
From: Out of my Tree, Perth, Scotland
Registered: Apr 2004


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post12-03-2018 04:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for IainSend a Private Message to IainEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I'll do this in several posts, since this computer is old, keeps freezing and doing strange things.

The tube comes fitted with DU bushes and wiper seal, you simply slide the tube into the bracket. There are two types, at least for Escorts, partially threaded and fully threaded. Partly threaded will be fine, I ended up with fully threaded simple because David at Classic Rally only had those in stock and sent them for the same price.. I have no connection to Classic and Rally other than being a satisfied customer for a couple of decades.
You can have small or long spring perches.
DSC_0134 by patersoniain, on Flickr

Choose your top cap, pilot hole or D shape if you're using Bilstein

DSC_0133 by patersoniain, on Flickr

You need a pair of these, 40mm inverted monotube, these are secondhand Long Escort Bilstein. Short ones are a better length for the Fiero, pretty much perfect in fact. You can have them made to pretty much any length you want. Even adjustable, you pays your money...

DSC_0135 by patersoniain, on Flickr

The piston is 10mm, you slide it into the tube, screw it into the threaded hole, then add a lock nut.

DSC_0136 by patersoniain, on Flickr

Yes, I know it's not welded, I'm still messing about with the length.

Turn it right way up, Mega Strut!

DSC_0137 by patersoniain, on Flickr

Add spring platform

DSC_0138 by patersoniain, on Flickr

IP: Logged

Iain
Member

Posts: 99
From: Out of my Tree, Perth, Scotland
Registered: Apr 2004


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post12-03-2018 05:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for IainSend a Private Message to IainEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

This is where it starts getting Custom.

If you are getting them made and ask nicely you can have the tops machined to use whatever top mounts you want.
If you're using secondhand or rebuilt stuff, as I am, that's not possible.
An Escort top nut is 5/8 UNF with an o.d of 19.73 mm, or at least mine are. Faaaar too big for the standard strut.

DSC_0140 by patersoniain, on Flickr

You'd normally just go with an adjustable top mount, except I can't find any cheap, or, secondhand ones with a 20mm bearing, these are E36, no way will that top nut fit these without turning it down to scary thin, and it won't take a bigger bearing. Escort mounts are available, which could be redrilled, but they're expensive.

DSC_0139 by patersoniain, on Flickr

I'm trying to do this with Minimum Budget. So, I'm probably going to go with a 6mm steel top mount with a spherical bearing housing welded into it. I want to move the mount inward as Fieroguru did anyway.

DSC_0141 by patersoniain, on Flickr

That's as far as I've gotten with it, I'm trying to turn up a pair of short inserts, though if I can sort and sell one of the cars I have lying around, I may splash out on a pair of adjustable inserts.


IP: Logged

cvxjet
Member

Posts: 1265
From: ca, usa
Registered: May 2010


Feedback score: (1)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post12-04-2018 01:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cvxjetClick Here to Email cvxjetSend a Private Message to cvxjetEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Thanks for all the info, Iain....Wow, that is pretty involved! Do you happen to have the PN of the SHORT Escort insert?

It would be great if someone actually manufactured the strut-to-spindle bracket......

IP: Logged


next newest topic | next oldest topic

All times are ET (US)

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Hop to:

Contact Us | Back To Main Page

Advertizing on PFF | Fiero Parts Vendors
PFF Merchandise | Fiero Gallery | Ogre's Cave
Real-Time Chat | Fiero Related Auctions on eBay



Copyright (c) 1999, C. Pennock