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V6 iron cylinder head by lordfiero
Started on: 11-25-2018 10:34 AM
Replies: 52 (1056 views)
Last post by: lou_dias on 02-14-2019 09:18 AM
lordfiero
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Report this Post11-25-2018 10:34 AM Click Here to See the Profile for lordfieroClick Here to Email lordfieroSend a Private Message to lordfieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

New member, new thread
Lets talk about the fiero heads..

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lordfiero
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Report this Post11-25-2018 10:57 AM Click Here to See the Profile for lordfieroClick Here to Email lordfieroSend a Private Message to lordfieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I did have plans to port the heads while the engine is in pieces..

The intake ports are typical GM 80s design, in this case steering the flow upwards and sideways via the blob in the middle of the passage, somewhat like the swirl ports on the 350 smallblocks(TBI version) althoug the intention of that one was creating a vortec.



the exhaust port definetly looks worse than the intake, the runner is not straight (at all) and there is a hump blocking the flow. This is probably a consequence of the spark plug location interfering with the exhaust port. Hmm

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lordfiero
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Report this Post11-25-2018 11:17 AM Click Here to See the Profile for lordfieroClick Here to Email lordfieroSend a Private Message to lordfieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

And this is what happens when trying to machine the hump to flatness.. and shape the port to a modern D-shape.



The extruding part of the hump is the wall, there is no additional metal behind it.. Everything looked ok until the last pass in the mill but Im glad I found out, otherwise I would have walls as thin as a hair out to the coolant. That would have been a catastrophe waiting to happen..
So heads up for that one if you plan to port these heads.

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Blacktree
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Report this Post11-25-2018 02:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BlacktreeClick Here to visit Blacktree's HomePageClick Here to Email BlacktreeSend a Private Message to BlacktreeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

What you did with the exhaust port looks similar to how I ported mine. My main goal was to create a flat floor in the exhaust port, from the valve bowl out to the header. And as you mentioned, one has to be careful not to cut into a water passage, or the spark plug recess.

On the intake, don't remove that fin in the center. This seems counter-intuitive, but that fin increases flow by about 15%. That said, it might be a good idea to sharpen the leading edge, to reduce aero drag. There are some gains to be made from smoothing out the valve guide area. There are big hunks of metal sticking out into the airflow path. Plus the transition from valve bowl to runner is pretty ugly.

[This message has been edited by Blacktree (edited 11-25-2018).]

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lou_dias
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Report this Post11-26-2018 02:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for lou_diasClick Here to Email lou_diasSend a Private Message to lou_diasEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I ported mine 1.25" if you wanted to D port them, you may have to twist where you bore to avoid such issues. The AL heads have twisted bores as well.

This images is larger than 153600 bytes. Click to view.

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Blacktree
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Report this Post11-26-2018 04:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BlacktreeClick Here to visit Blacktree's HomePageClick Here to Email BlacktreeSend a Private Message to BlacktreeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by lou_dias: ...if you wanted to D port them, you may have to twist where you bore to avoid such issues.

Yeah, I had to do that.

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lordfiero
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Report this Post11-26-2018 04:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for lordfieroClick Here to Email lordfieroSend a Private Message to lordfieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Great to see some pictures of other porting jobs and hear your experinece of this!
Yes the runner tilts approx 7 degrees sideways so cutting at that angle would probably been better but then I have to watch the opposite wall instead :/ I may try somewhere between...


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lordfiero
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Report this Post11-26-2018 05:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for lordfieroClick Here to Email lordfieroSend a Private Message to lordfieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post



Lets have a closer look inside the head

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lordfiero
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Report this Post11-27-2018 05:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for lordfieroClick Here to Email lordfieroSend a Private Message to lordfieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Fiero head surgery

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lou_dias
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Report this Post11-28-2018 09:21 AM Click Here to See the Profile for lou_diasClick Here to Email lou_diasSend a Private Message to lou_diasEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I assume for educational purposes...

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olejoedad
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Report this Post11-28-2018 12:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadClick Here to Email olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Can't wait for more pics!

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Will
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Report this Post11-28-2018 01:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I still have some of the Falconer ported iron heads, if you want a pair.

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lordfiero
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Report this Post11-29-2018 12:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for lordfieroClick Here to Email lordfieroSend a Private Message to lordfieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Yes, at least it may be educational for anyone intrested in casting pictures and valves&springs..

Thank you Will, not at the moment but its always good to have a backup plan! Im also thinking alu heads if this doesnt work out

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Blacktree
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Report this Post11-29-2018 12:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BlacktreeClick Here to visit Blacktree's HomePageClick Here to Email BlacktreeSend a Private Message to BlacktreeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by lordfiero:

Thank you Will, not at the moment but its always good to have a backup plan! Im also thinking alu heads if this doesnt work out

Too bad my Falconer intake doesn't fit the alloy heads. If it did, I'd switch in a heartbeat.

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Raydar
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Report this Post11-29-2018 05:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Here are the heads that I had ported for my 3.4.


And the intake ported to match.


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La fiera
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Report this Post11-29-2018 05:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for La fieraSend a Private Message to La fieraEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post


Lift " - stock - ported - R/A alum
.200 - 116.90 - 117.8 - 124.1
.300 - 133.60 - 139.4 - 148.9
.400 - 146.96 - 158.6 - 164.8
.500 - 146.96 - 165.7 - 169.9
.550 - 146.96 - 166.5 - 170.6
.600 - 146.96 - 166.5 - 170.6

I found this on an archive here at Pennocks. It is Oreif's stock and ported heads vs aluminum stock heads. Not bad!

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Blacktree
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Report this Post11-29-2018 08:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BlacktreeClick Here to visit Blacktree's HomePageClick Here to Email BlacktreeSend a Private Message to BlacktreeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Notice how well the alloy heads flow at low valve lift. Combine that with a roller cam profile, and you get an engine that breathes really well.

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88Fingers
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Report this Post11-29-2018 08:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 88FingersClick Here to Email 88FingersSend a Private Message to 88FingersEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Nice Porting job Raydar! PM sent

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Will
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Report this Post11-29-2018 08:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Raydar:
And the intake ported to match.



Looks like they didn't even touch the injector bosses.

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Raydar
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Report this Post11-29-2018 09:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Will:
Looks like they didn't even touch the injector bosses.


This was a Darrell Morse porting job. Probably one of the last ones he did.

The edge of the port used to block one side of the "spray cone" very badly. It is very much unshrouded from how is was. (Wish I had a pic of a stock intake.)

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La fiera
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Report this Post11-30-2018 07:30 AM Click Here to See the Profile for La fieraSend a Private Message to La fieraEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post



This is how I ported and matched mine.

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Blacktree
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Report this Post11-30-2018 09:06 AM Click Here to See the Profile for BlacktreeClick Here to visit Blacktree's HomePageClick Here to Email BlacktreeSend a Private Message to BlacktreeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Here's what the stock ports look like, at the bottom of the LIM. It's astonishing how much material they left in there.

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Will
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Report this Post11-30-2018 03:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

That's a huge change in the port's cross-sectional area.

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lordfiero
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Report this Post12-02-2018 12:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for lordfieroClick Here to Email lordfieroSend a Private Message to lordfieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Here is the exhaust port, sorry about the rotation of this picture, i did change it to horizontal but somehow its vertical again..



ant the intake port



Note that this is the centre cut from a circular X-section, so it may look likes more metal than it actually is on some places. I do think i hit the cente line of the ports pretty good.

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lordfiero
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Report this Post12-02-2018 12:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for lordfieroClick Here to Email lordfieroSend a Private Message to lordfieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Thin cast design and water channels everywhere.. It will be a challenge to make any major changes of the ports, but trimming and minor adjustments looks quite easy.
Its nice to see the pictures of other ports, and the la fiera dyno looks promising for modifying this engine!

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lou_dias
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Report this Post12-03-2018 08:53 AM Click Here to See the Profile for lou_diasClick Here to Email lou_diasSend a Private Message to lou_diasEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by lordfiero:

Here is the exhaust port, sorry about the rotation of this picture, i did change it to horizontal but somehow its vertical again..



ant the intake port


Note that this is the centre cut from a circular X-section, so it may look likes more metal than it actually is on some places. I do think i hit the cente line of the ports pretty good.

On the intake: most people will look at this and think that bump is a restriction but it's just the vane to divert air around the valve stem...

[This message has been edited by lou_dias (edited 12-03-2018).]

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Report this Post12-03-2018 11:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for NotorioSend a Private Message to NotorioEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Those cross sections are amazing! So looking at the restrictions, sharp edges, and very rough surface finish, what do you think is more important, Porting or Polishing???

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lordfiero
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Report this Post01-01-2019 09:35 AM Click Here to See the Profile for lordfieroClick Here to Email lordfieroSend a Private Message to lordfieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post



Fiero intake valve (original, 1.72")



Fiero exhaust valve (original, 1.42")

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lordfiero
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Report this Post01-01-2019 09:42 AM Click Here to See the Profile for lordfieroClick Here to Email lordfieroSend a Private Message to lordfieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post



Chevy small block intake valve 1.94"
As the picture shows, there is no possibility to clear the throat enough to match this valve diameter..



Chevy small block exhaust valve 1.5"

Similar stems, diamter is the same but the chevy is slightly longer.
You can not have 1.94" and 1.5" at the same time, they collide. One OR the other together with fiero size is (probably..) fine.

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Report this Post01-01-2019 11:23 AM Click Here to See the Profile for BlacktreeClick Here to visit Blacktree's HomePageClick Here to Email BlacktreeSend a Private Message to BlacktreeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Notorio: Those cross sections are amazing! So looking at the restrictions, sharp edges, and very rough surface finish, what do you think is more important, Porting or Polishing???

On these heads, the ports need to be reshaped for better flow. If you just polish the existing (crappy) port shape, you're not going to get much.

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Report this Post01-01-2019 04:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sledcaddieSend a Private Message to sledcaddieEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Does any aftermarket company make good replacement heads for a Fiero?

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Will
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Report this Post01-01-2019 06:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I still have some of the old Falconer race heads and maybe even a set of Ti valves.

Better heads just came on better engines.

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Blacktree
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Report this Post01-01-2019 07:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BlacktreeClick Here to visit Blacktree's HomePageClick Here to Email BlacktreeSend a Private Message to BlacktreeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Will: Better heads just came on better engines.

Yes, like the 3100 / 3400 V6.

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lordfiero
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Report this Post01-14-2019 04:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for lordfieroClick Here to Email lordfieroSend a Private Message to lordfieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I did a temporary fix on the hole (see above) in the exhaust port and smoothed the edges of the cut for some flow research..

Vertical axis=CFM at 28" water
Horizontal axis=mm valve lift (25.4mm is 1inch)
Im note 100% sure of absolute values since the flow bench is not calibrated but relative values (comparisons in the same set up) are accurate, and this is what I want to measure.

This is original exhaust port compared the widened port. Note only 1/3 of the total port length is widened so far..


After that I replaced the 1.42" valve with the 1.5" valve without any of the necessary modifications, slightly worse as expected.


Finally I reversed the valve upside down with only the stem in the exhaust port to see if the valve itself is a restriction at max lift, the conclusion is that it is not at these flows.


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lordfiero
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Report this Post01-24-2019 03:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for lordfieroClick Here to Email lordfieroSend a Private Message to lordfieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

The work goes on..

This is after removing som metal in the bowl area with CNC machine (only 3 axis so some manual Dremel machining follows below.)


And starting to clean up edges


Next step of cleaning and restoring some of the inner radius shape that got lost during material removal


All ends up in these flow numbers. Im kind of annoyed with the loss of low lift flow but the peak numbers ( @ 0.53" valve lift) are up 32CFM from the original standard port and the last version of the modified port would climb even higher with more pressure.

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Report this Post01-26-2019 11:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for NotorioSend a Private Message to NotorioEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

It's not clear to me from the pictures ... how much of the valve guide did you remove? In the heads I'm doing I just smoothed the sharp edges into a radius, with not very much material removed.

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Report this Post01-27-2019 03:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for lordfieroClick Here to Email lordfieroSend a Private Message to lordfieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Notorio:

It's not clear to me from the pictures ... how much of the valve guide did you remove? In the heads I'm doing I just smoothed the sharp edges into a radius, with not very much material removed.


I removed half of the valve guide, the outer half was shaped into a steep slope. Nice to see someone is reading
BTW if you smoothen the bowl and keeping the stock shape it is probably a good idea not to touch the area just above the valve guide, there is a small hump there. I think it is to improve the flow past the valve guide. It may be seen in the cosscuts pictures.

[This message has been edited by lordfiero (edited 01-27-2019).]

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Will
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Report this Post01-28-2019 09:26 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Are the four new traces different from the two traces on the prior graph?

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lordfiero
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Report this Post01-28-2019 01:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for lordfieroClick Here to Email lordfieroSend a Private Message to lordfieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Will:

Are the four new traces different from the two traces on the prior graph?


Yes, "big runner" from last graph is the same as "D-port". I do plan to measure other port shapes so that is the reason for the name change .

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Report this Post01-28-2019 02:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for lordfieroClick Here to Email lordfieroSend a Private Message to lordfieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I added a higher lift measure point on the last graph to see where the "d-port and bowl step 2" port maxxed out
178 CFM to be exact.

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