Found this on the RFA's website: (https://ethanolrfa.org/resources/blends/e15/)
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The EPA mandated E15 label states what vehicles E15 may be used in. It is important to note that dispensing E15 into a vehicle or engine that may not use E15 is prohibited by federal law. Vehicles that may not use E15 are model year 2000 and older cars, light-duty trucks, and medium-duty passenger vehicles. All motorcycles may not use E15 as well. For more information on E15’s use in motorcycles, please read RFA’s Fact Sheet. Engines that may not use E15 are all off-road vehicles, including boats and snowmobiles, all off-road equipment, including lawnmowers and chainsaws, and vehicles with heavy-duty engines.
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[This message has been edited by Darth Fiero (edited 10-17-2018).]
Originally posted by RayOtton: I have a 16' center console on a lift at my own dock so I just go to the local gas station and fill up the fuel cans there. so I can't say if the fuel dock even offers E-10.
FWIW, ethanol free 90 octane runs about 50 cents more a gallon there but at the fuel dock it's a dollar more, captured market and all.
Higher price at dock pump is likely partly higher price to marina. Marinas likely count as a gas stations for state rules and oil co contract as well and if true marina gets gets a few cents per Gallon. Many marinas are low volume stations for oil co and even then zone price are different the normal road stations.
What Zones? In a nutshell, Most Oil Co use zone prices based on many factors. More confusing, Gas Price Zones, like school district areas, can put 2 stations of same brand on same road yet have two different prices because they are in different zones even a few yard away for each other.
I worked at gas stations and had oil refineries as IT customers to explain zone pricing and still have a hard time to explain to others. That's ignoring both stations can be across city/county lines etc that can affect gas tax. Marinas can have different taxes too because many don't collect road tax and/or add other state fees/taxes. (In fact, If you buy Pump Diesel for home heating and similar, you often can "discount" because many states allow stations not to collect road tax for this and some other uses. that can be 2 to 10 cents or more "discount.")
[This message has been edited by theogre (edited 10-18-2018).]
Originally posted by 2.5: Are you saying the pump at Quik Trip that says "91 octane no ethanol rectreational gasoline", might actuallyt have 10% eth sometimes?
Maybe not full 10% but quite possible it has some ethanol.
I live in a RFG zone and never see "no ethanol" at normal stations. Can get at many marinas but can't fill a car on their pumps because most marinas don't collect road tax. Can't get E85 at most places too and not just stations can't get E85. E85 needs new everything and most can't dig new tanks w/o spending many 10's of Thousands of $ and even then have to get approval to add more tanks from state. Only some Feet operations have that to save taxes etc. Even hard to find stations w/ K1 for kerosene heaters around here. Many have pumps but no longer sells because of state/EPA tank rules requiring new tanks for a low volume product.
Originally posted by 2.5: "Ethanol and biobutanol are alcohol fuels derived from fermenting corn. But biobutanol is not corrosive like ethanol and behaves more like conventional gasoline. That means cars, boats and other machines that require gasoline can use it at high levels without experiencing problems. "
More important to refineries and distributors, I believe biobutanol can be added to gas at the refineries then pipe to anywhere. Unlike ethanol that can't be push thru oil pipe lines and mixing that at distributors still have many problems.
Other than lower mileage, most of these 'problems' with Ethanol are over blown. My 84 has used E10 for at least 20 years of its life. Original fuel injector, original fuel lines. 150k miles. NO fuel related problems. When the fuel pump finally gave up the ghost and I dropped the tank, the tank was squeaky clean inside. I agree its use is largely political, but it isn't the problem people make it out to be.
FF have fuels system that safety stores E85 but also have sensors to monitor fuel mix in the system and adjust timing etc to run any mix between pure gas to E85. Even if others have fuel tanks etc that handles E15-E85 their missing that sensor and can't self adjust to run w/ higher alcohol. Some people have old cars setup to run E85 but traveling to other areas and can't get it causes problems.
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Originally posted by 2.5: Prohibited huh? That's weird, what's their reason for that?
The other stuff should apply to E10 too, IMO.
Not happening. Read most any owners manual since at least the 1970's and you find most cars say will take up to 10% Ethanol, 5% Methanol, and now "banned" 10-15% MTBE.
Originally posted by edfiero: Other than lower mileage, most of these 'problems' with Ethanol are over blown. My 84 has used E10 for at least 20 years of its life. Original fuel injector, original fuel lines. 150k miles. NO fuel related problems. When the fuel pump finally gave up the ghost and I dropped the tank, the tank was squeaky clean inside. I agree its use is largely political, but it isn't the problem people make it out to be.
Again, Cars that can use a tank in a month or 3 and doesn't have iffy gas caps etc have little problems. I have no problems w/ "E10" and only drive my Fiero on the weekend most times.
Big problems can happen when water gets in the tank or like many boats w/ fiberglass tanks and other parts that react badly filled w/ E10 and less ethanol. My 4 cycle snow blower and 2 cycle lawn blower hate it even when I empty the tank off season but the lawn edger doesn't seem care doing same. And I even only use 1 or 2 1 gal gas can w/ tight seals because I can't use bigger in 2-3 months.
Why? Beside corrosive to many things, Ethanol like brake fluid is Hygroscopic and Hydrophilic and will pull water from air with bad gas caps etc. Most lawn mowers etc have vented gas caps and Ethanol drops out of gas when the ethanol pull only a 1-3% of water. Is not like "dry gas" that tries to pull some water out of tank and lines then "burn" that water in the engine. Even boats w/ parts that can take E10, vented caps etc let water in the tank and ethanol can quickly cause problems and often very fast too like in days in many cases because of high air moisture even w/o water splashing etc from whatever body of water.
Other than lower mileage, most of these 'problems' with Ethanol are over blown. My 84 has used E10 for at least 20 years of its life. Original fuel injector, original fuel lines. 150k miles. NO fuel related problems. When the fuel pump finally gave up the ghost and I dropped the tank, the tank was squeaky clean inside. I agree its use is largely political, but it isn't the problem people make it out to be.
Your experience is completely anecdotal. It's far from political and the damage done by ethanol is insane, it's in the millions if not billions. A month of sitting in a humid environment is enough to disable small engines. I've benefited from it because I understand the problems caused by ethanol, but it came at other peoples expense. My experience is anecdotal as well but my claims are backed by SCIENCE.
For what it is worth, I store my MGB for several months with E10 in the gas tank. I have been doing this for many years without any gasoline problems. I also store my Fiero for several weeks at a time without any problems with E10 in the gas tank. I do make sure that the gas tanks are full before storage which minimize the amount of water that can condense out. If you look outside and see dew/frost on the grass, then the same condensation is happening inside your gas tank. So the best thing to minimize water in gasoline problem by keeping your gas tank full.
Originally posted by Fiero.1984: So the best thing to minimize water in gasoline problem by keeping your gas tank full.
Incorrect, it depends on the climate and how well sealed the tank is. The more gas, the greater the amount of water it can absorb. If you can get ethanol free, you should use it to store your vehicles and a stabilizer never hurts.
I actually just fixed someone's trencher who had stored it with a full tank for 3 weeks, that's all it took in a humid climate to have almost an inch deep of water/ethanol in the bottom of the tank. There was zero gas in the carb, all water and ethanol, when I took it apart the only thing that came out of it smelled like it could get you drunk.
Above "test" video is done by an "expert" that knows very little about E-gas. Fan only speeds up the "test" and has nothing to do w/ condensing the moisture. Ethanol does Not need air movement at all. Like Brake Fluid the Ethanol Will pull water from air even in a "sealed" fuel system in a car. Faster in boats, lawn mowers, even old vehicles build before ~ late 70's with Vented gas caps.
Video does say fill only enough for use in a few days for boats is good. Often is same for lawn mowers etc because of vented caps.
Adding "ethanol stabilizers" like STA-BIL et al only helps some before ethanol draws too much water and ethanol drops out of solution in the gas. Ethanol needs 98+% dry to stay in solution w/ gas. If you get gas from low volume stations then likely have gotten some water and barely stay mix when bought and quickly cause problems storing anything. If you live in areas < 25-50 miles away from big lakes, bays or oceans then can, often will, have plenty of moisture that Brake Fluid and Ethanol will drink thru any tiny opening even if the systems don't leak liquid.
In "sealed" vehicle fuel systems... Is not completely sealed even when engine stopped because most EVAP systems in vehicles have a small "leak" thru the EVAP canister to let in air and moisture. Many newer PCM controlled EVAP systems limit air moving thru vent tubes when engine is off but big temperature swings can make the tank to get too much pressure or vacuum and force vent the system. Worse when the EVAP system is bad or have part(s) missing then Ethanol will pull water thru the hole.
Also See my Cave, Brake Fluid for related issues/problems.
[This message has been edited by theogre (edited 11-18-2018).]
