About to start a low budget engine swap on my 86 SE since I spun a rod bearing once the temp cools down here in texas. Whats the best place to buy a 3800sc? Really preferably looking for a Crate engine. Total budget hopefully doesn't exceed 4k Thank you.
At this point in time I would venture to say that low mileage 3800 (SC) engines are pretty scarce. The "newest" one would be 11 years old. The salvage yards these days have mostly high mileage junk. I would suggest buying a used engine and rebuilding it. Occasionally you can find good 3800SC cradle drop outs in the mall section.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
I highly recommend NOT rebuilding a 3800SC. A very large portion of rebuilds spin a rod bearing shortly after the rebuild.
A good option for a budget build is to top swap an NA 3800. You can get those pretty cheap. The parts for the top swap might be a little bit, but the benefit is if you do pop the engine, another top swap is just the price of a cheap engine and a few gaskets.
Originally posted by OntarioKev: I highly recommend NOT rebuilding a 3800SC. A very large portion of rebuilds spin a rod bearing shortly after the rebuild.
If rebuilding a 3800SC is indeed such black magic, then the engine is best avoided... otherwise, in 5-10 years when your engine quits, there's nothing to do except for swap to another engine type.
If rebuilding a 3800SC is indeed such black magic, then the engine is best avoided... otherwise, in 5-10 years when your engine quits, there's nothing to do except for swap to another engine type.
This is not the first time I have seen this mentioned. I understand all engines have their quirks but is it really bad joojoo to rebuild a 3800SC?
[This message has been edited by Spadesluck (edited 09-19-2018).]
it is only Because People just can't seem to grasp that "rebuilding a 3800 is not the same as rebuilding a small block chevy", if done correctly they are fine. You CAN NOT re -use any BOLTS !
I second this👍 My 3800 rebuild works perfectly*, and for the last 4 years. He's right about not reusing old fastners where it matters. (Mine used new ARP studs etc... for the mains and rods)
*I didn't use the right bolts for the flywheel; nearly a disaster😵. Luckily caught it before total wipeout for the end if the crankshaft.
As I was going through my swap, I had the first engine spin a bearing. I looked into having it rebuilt, but had difficulty in finding anyone who would rebuild them. The only quote I got locally was $3800!
As for longevity, if they are maintained, these engines should be fine for 200-250K miles.
I suggest getting a running, driving vehicle. This way you'll know better what you are getting, plus you can get the harness, axles, battery cables(maybe), etc. Once the stuff you need is removed, you can part out the remainder to recover some of your cost, plus then scrap the carcass.
There used to be many performance companies (ZZP is an example) that specialized in the 3800 and sold built 3800s. A lot of them stopped because of spun bearings after the rebuild. Using all new bolts may be the trick I don't personally know the answer.
It may just be a combination of rebuild and extra power who knows. I am running a shortblock out of an 04 Grand prix that had I think 65k miles on it, so this should last me a long time.
I have an 01 GTP with 120k. Running, driving car, it just ran from NH to SC and back. I also have an 03 SC engine, ECM and harness prepped for swap and HD trans, disassembled and stored, and a 2000 NA engine with 160k, incl oem harness and ECM, no trans. Local sale only, unless you are motivated to handle the shipping arrangements.
------------------ 1988 Pontiac Fiero Formula, Yellow, original. (CJB #118) 1977 Pontiac Le Mans Can-Am W72, original, unrestored. 1977 Pontiac Grand LeMans 2003 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP L67/MN7 (Parts Car) 2001 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP L67/MN7 (DD) 2005 Pontiac Grand Prix L26 (Wife's DD)
A guy that used to run with us in our club had a rebuilt 3800SC w an XP cam from ZZ Performance and it ran absolutely great. As Lou said, if rebuilt correctly, with new crank and rod bearings/ bolts, and if all of the clearances are to factory spec, there is no reason why the engine would spin a bearing.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
Email ZZP and ask to buy a built 3800 from them and see the response. It doesn't ALWAYS happens, but it happened enough to them that warranty claims were making it non profitable.
Email ZZP and ask to buy a built 3800 from them and see the response. It doesn't ALWAYS happens, but it happened enough to them that warranty claims were making it non profitable.
Don't doubt this at all,l but if you look at ZZ's audience, it is composed of racers and those that want high performance . That crowd drives them hard. Maybe the 3800 is that difficult to rebuild. Hard to tell but there must be a logical reason why. The 4.9L Caddy is also hard to rebuild but I can name two guys that did successful builds.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
If you have a reason to come to Michigan I have a nice naturally aspirated 3800 in a Transport Van. I was going to finish it but I'm getting to old. It is a 1995 with just over 100K. I disassembled and completely inspected, and reassembled with all new gaskets and valve job. New balancer and water pump. I built a van for my sister with this engine but she totaled it after only 4K. I bought another van and have the engine installed and almost done but just lost interest. You'd have to take the whole van. Only want $500.
The head bolts are torque to yield. Either buy new head bolts, or even better buy an ARP stud kit. More clamping power, and re-usable!
Dennis,
I basically built by 3800 for drag racing, so I personally didn't want to take the risk of the spun bearings with doing a full rebuild. Your right there are many examples of rebuilt 3800s with no issues, but there are also many examples of spun bearings just after a rebuild. It would be extremely frustrating to go through the expense of a rebuild only to spin a bearing right away!
I have an 01 GTP with 120k. Running, driving car, it just ran from NH to SC and back. I also have an 03 SC engine, ECM and harness prepped for swap and HD trans, disassembled and stored, and a 2000 NA engine with 160k, incl oem harness and ECM, no trans. Local sale only, unless you are motivated to handle the shipping arrangements.
I will message you if I'd take you up on the deal. And probably no hassle for shipping, I've searched for some freight depots around my area already
The wife's car came from Carmax and has a strong 3800 n/a engine which started overheating at 65,000ish miles due to the common leaking intake gasket issue. It was also a "program car" so lower mileage means very little to me. Low mileage can mean abused rental/lease car. I'd just buy a 3800sc and a couple of spares.
Consider purchasing a salvage 3800 SC car. I am considering a 3800 in the future but have been pricing used salvage 3800 SC. I've have seen some low mile 3800 SC cars go for as low as $500 plus auction fee's. Take a look at erepairables . com and carpart . com.
other than the obvious engine swap; any one know of a more modern swap? Some 4 cylinders have 200 HP that would be nice in the fiero.
Consider purchasing a salvage 3800 SC car. I am considering a 3800 in the future but have been pricing used salvage 3800 SC. I've have seen some low mile 3800 SC cars go for as low as $500 plus auction fee's. Take a look at erepairables . com and carpart . com.
other than the obvious engine swap; any one know of a more modern swap? Some 4 cylinders have 200 HP that would be nice in the fiero.
Do a search for "ecotec". You will find what you are looking for. There is also a guy who makes the mounts for these motors, he posts in the mall section all the time.
The head bolts are torque to yield. Either buy new head bolts, or even better buy an ARP stud kit. More clamping power, and re-usable!
Dennis,
I basically built by 3800 for drag racing, so I personally didn't want to take the risk of the spun bearings with doing a full rebuild. Your right there are many examples of rebuilt 3800s with no issues, but there are also many examples of spun bearings just after a rebuild. It would be extremely frustrating to go through the expense of a rebuild only to spin a bearing right away!
I've read that same statement on the dying GPforum from someone. Are they spinning rod bearings or mains? And I wonder, how different is the Grand National Buick engine from these 3800sc engines? Because I haven't heard of GN bearings having spun bearing problems. The Pontiac engines do spin frequently and I think some builders do a little trench work to the oil hole to the bearing to increase oiling.
[This message has been edited by sourmash (edited 09-30-2018).]
