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Installation of S-10 Brake Booster-not easy. by Dennis LaGrua
Started on: 07-11-2018 09:44 AM
Replies: 31 (615 views)
Last post by: liv4God on 07-14-2018 12:48 PM
Dennis LaGrua
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Report this Post07-11-2018 09:44 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have decided to install the larger S10 brake booster for better braking action. Got the actuator rod to the right length using Rodney Dickmans adapter but now the chore is to open up the area so that the bigger booster fits. Started working the metal area with a 2 lb hand sledge hammer and its going very slow. Just looking for tips on how we can get that area opened up more easily. Have two air hammers and might make up a special blunt end to speed up the process but not sure how of if this can work. Tips appreciated.

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" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

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Lambo nut
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Report this Post07-11-2018 10:08 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Lambo nutSend a Private Message to Lambo nutEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
This is definitely a case where you need a bigger hammer!
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olejoedad
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Report this Post07-11-2018 10:30 AM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
You're using a baby hammer!
The metal doesn't need to move much!
Smack that metal!
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Report this Post07-11-2018 10:49 AM Click Here to See the Profile for darbysanSend a Private Message to darbysanEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
2 lb worked for me. Whack away!

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Report this Post07-11-2018 10:51 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Lambo nutSend a Private Message to Lambo nutEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If things get in the way for a good swing, grab a piece of 2x2 or 2x4 and use that between your hammer and metal like you would a chisel.
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Report this Post07-11-2018 10:53 AM Click Here to See the Profile for BlacktreeClick Here to visit Blacktree's HomePageSend a Private Message to BlacktreeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua: Started working the metal area with a 2 lb hand sledge hammer and its going very slow. Just looking for tips on how we can get that area opened up more easily.

Swing harder.

But seriously, I did it with a 2-pound sledge. I could have done it faster with a bigger sledge, but the smaller one is more accurate.
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cvxjet
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Report this Post07-11-2018 11:23 AM Click Here to See the Profile for cvxjetSend a Private Message to cvxjetEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I recently picked up a 10 lb sledge.....I can fix anything now! (Actually, if you just lay the sledge in front of your car, then point at it, the car rarely breaks down....)
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Dennis LaGrua
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Report this Post07-11-2018 02:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by olejoedad:

You're using a baby hammer!
The metal doesn't need to move much!
Smack that metal!


I guess that's the case. Need to break out the heavy equipment and be manly! . The way I look at it the metal does have to move quite a bit. The diameter of the S-10 booster is about 2" more than the Fiero unit. There is a hump in the fender well (underneath the booster) that looks like it interferes and needs to be flattened, but there is also the area where the ridge steps up that needs to be widened. This is truly a muscle building job!.

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" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
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" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

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Report this Post07-11-2018 03:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Only needs an inch!
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Tony Kania
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Report this Post07-11-2018 03:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Tony KaniaSend a Private Message to Tony KaniaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Just for reference...

My framing hammer is two pounds.
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Report this Post07-11-2018 03:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Lou6t4gtoSend a Private Message to Lou6t4gtoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
you need to Pound in about a 2" circle about 1/4" deep. I've installed the S10 in 2 of mine and am going to do a 3rd. it is" double walled metal" at that point, wack it, it won't hurt anything.
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Report this Post07-11-2018 03:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for CajunSend a Private Message to CajunEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Dennis, I'm getting ready to do the same to my 86 GT. Any chance of you posting a few photos of the work?

[This message has been edited by Cajun (edited 07-11-2018).]

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Dennis LaGrua
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Report this Post07-11-2018 03:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by olejoedad:

Only needs an inch!


About half way there and still pounding. Just got out little Jim, the long handle sledge. Still believe that this job can be done with the right air hammer. The ones that we have have on the shelf have an assortment of chisel shanks. They can break up most anything but I don't feel comfortable using them.

------------------
" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

[This message has been edited by Dennis LaGrua (edited 07-11-2018).]

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Report this Post07-11-2018 04:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for css9450Send a Private Message to css9450Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Lou6t4gto:

you need to Pound in about a 2" circle about 1/4" deep.


1/4" sounds about right. It takes some good hemmerin' but fortunately it doesn't have to move much.

I suspect my booster touches the frame there but that doesn't seem to hurt anything.

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Report this Post07-11-2018 05:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Someone should make a new bracket that slightly offsets the booster to clear. It would also eliminate the need to remove the stock bracket from the Fiero booster.
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Report this Post07-11-2018 06:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for SCCA FIEROSend a Private Message to SCCA FIEROEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fieroguru:

Someone should make a new bracket that slightly offsets the booster to clear. It would also eliminate the need to remove the stock bracket from the Fiero booster.


Hmm, I wonder who would be a good choice to do that?
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Report this Post07-11-2018 07:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for SpoonSend a Private Message to SpoonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Dennis, When I did this job I used (2) 5 lb hammers. One I held against the area that needed moved and I used the other hammer to hit the first on. This eliminated striking the body metal directly. An official size and weight shot-put ball would of been even better but you get the idea.

Spoon

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Dennis LaGrua
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Report this Post07-11-2018 10:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Cajun:

Dennis, I'm getting ready to do the same to my 86 GT. Any chance of you posting a few photos of the work?



Will try to do tommorrow.

------------------
" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

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Report this Post07-11-2018 11:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DimeMachineSend a Private Message to DimeMachineEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
This is one of the best fiero mods IMO!

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84/87 NB, 3800SC, E-85, VS Cam, 2.8 Pulley, 4T65E-HD, HP Tuners, AEM Wideband, Regal GS Gauges, S-10 Brake Booster. 1/4 mile -11.85 at 114mph

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Report this Post07-11-2018 11:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for tsharkSend a Private Message to tsharkEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
...

[This message has been edited by tshark (edited 09-08-2018).]

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Report this Post07-12-2018 02:35 AM Click Here to See the Profile for lou_diasSend a Private Message to lou_diasEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
What are the advantages of the S10 over the 82 Corvette complete master cylinder assembly?
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Report this Post07-12-2018 05:22 AM Click Here to See the Profile for liv4GodSend a Private Message to liv4GodEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Maybe I did it the wrong way, but I put spacers on the bottom bolts so my booster is at a slight angle. Enough that it clears and I didn't have to hammer.
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olejoedad
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Report this Post07-12-2018 07:47 AM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by liv4God:

Maybe I did it the wrong way, but I put spacers on the bottom bolts so my booster is at a slight angle. Enough that it clears and I didn't have to hammer.


Great idea! How many did it take to get the proper angle?
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Report this Post07-12-2018 08:00 AM Click Here to See the Profile for cam-a-lotSend a Private Message to cam-a-lotEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by liv4God:

Maybe I did it the wrong way, but I put spacers on the bottom bolts so my booster is at a slight angle. Enough that it clears and I didn't have to hammer.


Pictures PLEEEEEASE!!! If this works well, it would be much better than hammering the poor car. I try so hard to keep my mint Fiero in good shape, I just can't bring myself to beating the crap out of it with a hammer!!!

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Report this Post07-12-2018 02:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for SpadesluckSend a Private Message to SpadesluckEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Surprised there are no pictures.
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Report this Post07-13-2018 04:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Lou6t4gtoSend a Private Message to Lou6t4gtoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
"Someone should make a new bracket that slightly offsets the booster to clear. It would also eliminate the need to remove the stock bracket from the Fiero booster." But, when you LIFT the booster, the geometry to the Pedal Changes


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Report this Post07-13-2018 04:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Lou6t4gto:
But, when you LIFT the booster, the geometry to the Pedal Changes


Have you done the math to determine how much of the pedal force would be reduced by a 0.25" offset if the brake booster banjo?
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Dennis LaGrua
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Report this Post07-13-2018 07:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Job is complete. Braking power is substantially improved. Very big difference. I used the new S10 booster that Rodney recommends (purchased at Summit Racing Equipment) plus his adapter end. About a $150 upgrade.
I just bent enough metal for the booster to just fit the space. Its snug but not jammed in. If you don't get carried away, you will hardly see the mods. Once you strengthen your arm with the pounding, the job isn't hard. With do this on my other Fiero and this time will try the AC Delco unit that I purchased a while ago. With that unit some threading and adjusting of the actuator rod is necessary
Don't like the angle install to save work as the booster rod was designed to be actuated in a linear not angular motion. Its unknown how much, if any the angular mount will affect performance or longevity. Here's how the final install looks with apologies for not finishing the detail.
Fiero Brake Upgrade

PS: You must use the Fiero brake booster check valve as the S-10 unit uses a smaller hose size nipple. It just pulls out and pushes in. You will also need 13mm and 15mm box wrenches, preferably ones that have the adjustable multi-angle heads, and a needle nose pliers to pull the holding pin off the brake pedal.

------------------
" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

[This message has been edited by Dennis LaGrua (edited 07-14-2018).]

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Report this Post07-13-2018 07:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for SCCA FIEROSend a Private Message to SCCA FIEROEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua:

Job is complete. Braking power is substantially improved. Very big difference. I used the new S10 booster that Rodney recommends (purchased at Summit Racing Equipment) plus his adapter end. About a $150 upgrade.


I did the same, used the Tuff Stuff booster and Rodney's banjo in my 87 GT and went autocrossing shortly after. I locked the brakes up a few times before I got adjusted to it.
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Report this Post07-13-2018 07:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for tsharkSend a Private Message to tsharkEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
...

[This message has been edited by tshark (edited 09-08-2018).]

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Dennis LaGrua
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Report this Post07-13-2018 08:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by tshark:

Nice job. The black boot on the actuator rod looks good.

I agree about the angle being a concern. I understand that there is some deflection as the brake pedal is depressed, but I didn't want to add to it on something important like brakes. Also, it would seem that adding washers or any type of spacers increases the chance of flexibility. It also changes the angle for the studs on the bulkhead, such that pressure is applied unequally to the 2 sides, and at a tangent. Any movement of the bracket is sure to damage the threads on the studs. With the washers, the nuts will have to be torqued more to achieve the same results.

If you do the mod right, it will be less noticeable than a booster that is cockeyed with spacers. Also, putting the booster at an angle would seem to interfere more with the sunroof deflector mount.

The nuts against the bulkhead look a bit rounded. What nuts did you use? I didn't want mine to rust, so I got some nuts for marine applications. I bought special wrenches for this job. Still, it felt as if I got 1 click per turn. I skinned my knuckles, rather than round the nuts.


Agree on all points. Used the correct size wrenches and got the nuts tight but at times you are tightening in limited space in a small angle so the box wrench occasionally slips off. There was a slight rounding there but it doesn't weaken the install. Those are the OEM lock nuts and they loosen and tighten slowly. Might add that Tuff Stuff Boosters and accessories are Made in the U.S.A. by Hurst.

------------------
" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

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Report this Post07-14-2018 12:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for liv4GodSend a Private Message to liv4GodEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by cam-a-lot:


Pictures PLEEEEEASE!!! If this works well, it would be much better than hammering the poor car. I try so hard to keep my mint Fiero in good shape, I just can't bring myself to beating the crap out of it with a hammer!!!


Here's the best picture I took right after I finished it.


And to address some of the other questions or concerns as best as my memory will allow:
You really can't tell at all that it is at an angle. It was 2 years ago so I don't remember the exact numbers, but I want to say about 3-4 small washers for about a quarter inch total.
I can't say whether that slight angle causes any issue with the brakes. They've worked great for the last 2 years and I never drove a car who installed it via the smashing method to make a comparison. So in the end I guess you just have to choose what you think is the lesser evil. Smashing the car with a sledge hammer or having an angle which may or may not affect performance. Obviously I decided I'd rather live with the angle. Oh and my car is a hard top so no sunroof holder to worry about anyway.

In case you are wondering why I don't just go out and check and snap some better pics. Well as my profile says I'm in Korea now and couldn't bring my Fiero, so she's still at home in California :'(
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