Have an intermittent problem with the starter on my '87 Fiero 4.9. Every once in awhile when I turn the key to start up the car, I hear an arcing sound from under the rear of the car, and the starter won't spin. Turn the key off and try again, and the starter spins perfectly and the car starts right up. Works perfectly for several starts, and then without warning it does it again.
I got under it and confirmed all connections to the starter were tight and clean.
Either a bad solenoid or bad starter. My guess is a bad solenoid.
Most likely, or perhaps even a loose cable on the large bolt on the starter. That lug takes loads of current. Not hard to arc it if the connection is loose.
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Yeah, my first guess was loose connections, so I checked those. All were tight, so I suspected the starter or solenoid. Will get back under the car and tackle that next.
BTW, the previous owner ran the engine ground from the back of the block (area between starter and AC compressor) to the cradle. It's aprox a 4 gauge wire. Is the cradle an adequate ground? The cradle is suspended on poly bushings, so I can't see how it is. Where have others grounded their 4.9 swaps?
The block is also grounded with two 1/2' braided straps...one from forward cylinder head to driver side deck lid hinge, the other from alternator bracket to passenger side deck lid hinge. Both look older. At a minimum I need to pull those and clean the connections, if not replace those straps with brand new ones.
Thanks.
[This message has been edited by Warlordsix (edited 06-12-2018).]
I ran my ground directly to the block. The starter uses the engine block as the negative in the circuit. If the ground straps to chassis are of high resistance it will use any lower resistance path to the chasis such as the smaller wires from your engine harness to the chassis which can result in a fire.
I ran my ground directly to the block. The starter uses the engine block as the negative in the circuit. If the ground straps to chassis are of high resistance it will use any lower resistance path to the chasis such as the smaller wires from your engine harness to the chassis which can result in a fire.
Thanks. When you say you ran your ground "directly to the block," where did you anchor the other end of the ground strap/cable?
Thanks. When you say you ran your ground "directly to the block," where did you anchor the other end of the ground strap/cable?
I relocated my battery up front in the spare tire well. From there, the ground wire ( pos lead taken from a buick riviera with the battery under the back seat) runs under the fiero directly to the engine block. There are usually several locations where a bracket was mounted or just a threaded mounting point exists. Solder a welding wire eyelet on at that point... not just a large crimp on connector. The pos lead from the riviera has a pigtail smaller gauge wire coming directly from the factory battery terminal. I bolt that lead to the chassis up front. And a couple standard braided ground straps from the engine block to the chassis and cradle
[This message has been edited by Reallybig (edited 06-13-2018).]
Thanks, guys. Yeah, the PO moved the battery to the front. The negative terminal connects via heavy gauge cable to the starter. I've cleaned and retightened all grounds, so I'm now considering replacing the starter...might as well swap in an Allante starter while I'm at it if for no other reason than to eliminate having to clearance bellhousings on any future tranny upgrades.
Thanks, guys. Yeah, the PO moved the battery to the front. The negative terminal connects via heavy gauge cable to the starter. I've cleaned and retightened all grounds, so I'm now considering replacing the starter...might as well swap in an Allante starter while I'm at it if for no other reason than to eliminate having to clearance bellhousings on any future tranny upgrades.
Thanks, again.
Lol. I just did the same. With my original tranny's 2nd gear stripped, I picked up the Allante starter from rock auto... good price... so I wouldn't have to notch a trans again. But it got in the way of my custom exhaust's O2 sensor. Plug the old and weld in a new bung under the car, swearing the whole time. Now the cable and solenoid wires aren't long enough... gotta love working on cars... seemed so simple!
Lol. I just did the same. With my original tranny's 2nd gear stripped, I picked up the Allante starter from rock auto... good price... so I wouldn't have to notch a trans again. But it got in the way of my custom exhaust's O2 sensor. Plug the old and weld in a new bung under the car, swearing the whole time. Now the cable and solenoid wires aren't long enough... gotta love working on cars... seemed so simple!
Hah! That's precisely why I tell my wife to never ask me how long anything will take when I'm working on a car or an engine. My son understands this implicitly, but given how my wife never fails to ask this same question each time I head into the garage, I can only conclude she and I are speaking two, entirely different languages. Sheesh. Then again, what else is new?
BTW, my second gear went up in smoke, too. I'm guessing you have an Isuzu behind your 4.9.
Yup. 5spd isuzu. I was told it would fail... took 5years. I'm ok with that. Just put in another isuzu. Yeah... I know.
Same here. Decided another Isuzu will be just fine. I don't do any burnouts or hammer-drops at the stoplights. And the gearing is pretty good up top. Yeah, these tranny's are inexpensive...and so is the nearly endless supply of low-ish mile 4.9s. Not a bad combo.
Originally posted by Warlordsix: ... And the gearing is pretty good up top.
I was wondering about that. I have a Getrag in my 4.9 car. I always seem to be looking for another gear. Especially on the highway. (No. I don't want to do an F40.) Since I need a solid trans for a different swap project (3900 coupe) I was thinking about grabbing the Getrag for it, and installing my spare Isuzu in its place, in the 4.9 car.
Oh yeah. To the O/P... My stock 4.9 starter was a POS. Crankiest damned thing I've ever seen. (Not to be punny.) I replaced it with an Allante starter, and have never looked back.
My battery is in the front. The positive cable goes straight to the starter. A smaller cable goes from the starter, up to the C500(?) lug. The negative cable goes to the bolt that holds the brake booster. There are two grounds on the engine. One from the rear head to a bolt that is where the dog bone bracket on the body used to be. The other is from one of the tranny/bellhousing studs, to the left hinge box. Never a problem. (This is quite similar to what Dodge is using for all their Challengers. Doesn't seem to be causing issues for them, either.) I have a knife switch in the ( - ) cable, in case I need to disconnect it quickly.
[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 06-17-2018).]
Originally posted by Raydar: I was thinking about grabbing the Getrag for it, and installing my spare Isuzu in its place, in the 4.9 car.
The 5th gear is why I kept the isuzu in the first place. It does make highway cruising enjoyable. I don't drop the clutch but pushing on 2nd gear is something I'm gonna have to stop doing with isuzu 2.0.
I don't drop the clutch but pushing on 2nd gear is something I'm gonna have to stop doing with isuzu 2.0
Does simply accelerating hard while already in 2nd gear cause the damage, or is it actually repeated hard shifting from 1st into 2nd that eventually destroys 2nd gear?
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 06-19-2018).]
Does simply accelerating hard while already in 2nd gear cause the damage, or is it actually repeated hard shifting from 1st into 2nd that eventually destroys 2nd gear?
Hard shifting, accellerating hard... it's all a grey area. Let's just say I was never kind to the second gear. I guess I would shift into first and lean into it to get the car moving without dumping the clutch, shift and push hard as possible without breaking traction in second. Most of the time without breaking traction
I had intermittent starting issues, replaced the starter twice and it still happened. Decided to go with the Allante starter and while installing it I had to move one of the wires more forward as the terminal location was a little different and that's when I discovered my problem all along. The wire had been resting on an exhaust pipe and melted which cuased arcing when I would try and start it. Fixed the wire and the new location of the Allante terminal solved my starting issue.
Something to look for as I couldn't see it with the old starters until I pulled the wire more forward for the different starter.
Originally posted by Patrick: Does simply accelerating hard while already in 2nd gear cause the damage, or is it actually repeated hard shifting from 1st into 2nd that eventually destroys 2nd gear?
George Ryan used to autocross a 4.9 / Isuzu combo. (FWIW, this was an 85 with an 88 cradle swap.) He shredded 2nd gear in two trannies before he retired the car (or himself... not sure which.) Since you autocross, that ought to give you an idea. I've seen onboard video. He didn't baby it.
[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 06-23-2018).]
